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Physical pain is inevitable, mental suffering is optional

Comments

  • jj5jj5 Medford Lakes, N.J. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I am bookmarking this one. Anthony De Mello is very interesting. Thank you for the link pegembara!
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Mental suffering is not optional. If you can't get oxygen, your amygdala will create a struggle, which is suffering by definition. This is a very deep response, conditioned by hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary selection pressure. The trick is learning to rest as the struggle goes on. (Not claiming I could do that in that situation.)

    I agree with the main thrust of Mr De Mello's speech, though.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited June 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    Mental suffering is not optional. If you can't get oxygen, your amygdala will create a struggle, which is suffering by definition. This is a very deep response, conditioned by hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary selection pressure. The trick is learning to rest as the struggle goes on. (Not claiming I could do that in that situation.)

    .
    What is resting?... and wouldn't that which is not struggling be non-suffering?
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Can you say what you don't understand about resting?

    Yes, that which is not struggling is non-suffering. But there can still be mental struggle concurrent with that, and it is usually not optional (whatever that would mean in this context.)
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited June 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    Can you say what you don't understand about resting?
    :D What (is it that is) is resting.
    fivebells wrote: »
    Yes, that which is not struggling is non-suffering. But there can still be mental struggle concurrent with that, and it is usually not optional (whatever that would mean in this context.)
    Sounds true.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I wonder if the mind was still enough to free of suffering, whether or not the situation would be perceived as asphyxiation or not. Much like pain meditation, if you are able to perceive the environment, perhaps you naturally just observe the pulmonary reaction. As when the shard of rock was said to pierce Buddha, it did not cause a new condition of suffering, because the wheel of suffering was previously stilled... making the experience within his journey unrecognizable to us.

    It seems at this point, many of us could say "the body here and now desires to expel carbon dioxide" (the actual stimulation of breathing is from excess, not lack... for the record) rather than craving. Have you seen a video of a Buddhist who lit himself on fire without reaction forcing its way into his mind? I can't imagine breathing would be more potent.

    With warmth,

    Matt
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Richard H wrote: »
    :D What (is it that is) is resting.
    Ah, good question. I parsed it differently. :)
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    aMatt wrote: »
    Have you seen a video of a Buddhist who lit himself on fire without reaction forcing its way into his mind? I can't imagine breathing would be more potent.
    Sitting still is different from not suffering, though it's hard to tell from the outside.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited June 2010
    We can only speculate about that monk, but it isn't far fetched to imagine stablity and clarity to the point of body and mind burning alone.
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Perhaps it is somewhat akin to near death experience where the mind separates from body and all pain and suffering stops and only absolute peace remains.

    or

    Jill Bolte's account of her stroke where in a life or death situation she had no suffering until she willed herself to do something.
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