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practicing buddhist of 3 years in desperate need of experienced guidance
hello, my name is vince, and I have been practicing buddhism for the past two or three years of my life. i've always had strong convictions about my philosophy, and found the buddha's teaching to be both inspirational and obviously true. recently however, a close friend of mine whom i discovered buddhism with has taken to catholicism. at the same time, another friend of mine has been talking to me about god. now, i don't necessarily believe in god, but for the first time i'm having serious doubts about the whole buddhist view on life. are things really empty ? should i really be attempting to become dispassionate ? what about self , what if there is a atman, rather an anatta ? what about smiles , beauty , love , friendship. is there not something eternal in goodness ? please help with any advice you can give, this doubt in the Dharma has shaken me thoroughly inside , and i am considering the possibility of god's existence. i know god isn't really of importance in siddhartha's teaching, but what if god is the end of suffering, and not the path ?
metta, thank you for any help you can be.
metta, thank you for any help you can be.
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Comments
These podcasts will answer your questions.
I hear your questioning of some of the truths behind Buddhism, and, with having a friend go from similar philosophies into Catholicism, you naturally could have lots of confusion. I imagine you have a great deal of respect for that friend!
I wonder what kind of Buddhism you've been practicing? For me, understanding the nature of anatta and other pieces of the Dharma has been about sitting in meditation, not about contemplation. I can say to you that I have no doubt that anatta is a fine depiction, but until you have done the work, it'll never take real root in your world. To this end, I have seen no finer vehicle for cultivating a clear view than meditation.
As far as god goes, I don't really think it matters. If you can agree that proving or disproving God or god is impossible, then perhaps you can accept that no matter what exists, finding a clear frame of mind to view the world is critical. The great thing about Buddhism is it doesn't require the same kind of blind devotion often attributed to worship, rather it very directly helps you cultivate a clear and resonant mind. From there, compassion (which is the highest ideal taught by God's messiah) is naturally fluid and helpful for humankind. Does that make any sense to you?
So, its a win win. By following a regular meditation practice, you not only become more compassionate, open to ideas, and capable of helping others, but you are also living up to the ideals of the religion you are currently wondering about. Don't close your mind to the idea or experience of god, as there is no need to stub your toes on the ideas of other practices.
With warmth,
Matt
You are very correct in that I have great respect for that friend, he is one of the most compassionate and loving human beings I have ever met. Your description makes quite alot of sense, because I do agree, proving or disproving God is impossible. (Though I am tempted to say as Christians do - what about faith? is faith a positive force?) I should probably sit in meditation more than I do, but I am self-taught, and do not have a teacher. I agree that the main goal is to find a clear frame of mind to view the world in a compassionate and loving manner, perhaps if I meditated more I would see that it can help me achieve that. But then I question why my friend who does not meditate seems to be one of the most compassionate beings I've ever met. I will sit in meditation more often, and see if the answers truly do arise. Also - I have been in the Theravadin tradition, but am beginning to suspect I belong in the Greater Vehicle (Mahayana) tradition. Further, I most certain will not close my mind to the idea or experience of god, as it is against my nature to close my mind at all.
And to fivebells, thank you for the podcasts, I will give them a listen when I am not pressed for time.
Anyone else who might have something helpful to say - it would be greatly appreciated. I will be becoming a member of this online Sangha I think, because of the wonderful help I've received in so short of time. Once again, thank you.
Ultimately religion is up to choice. You have to choose where you want to put your faith into. There is no best answer here. You shouldn't get too caught up in choosing the best team, just take the time to explore your options without freaking too much about it, after all, it's not like there are many discrepancies between buddhist and christian ethics, so even if there is a God we buddhists would still be playing by his rules. :P
I would say that in regards to your examination of faith, that it is a positive force. When faith acts as a boost to the willingness to do what is best, and leads to open examination and heartfelt exchange, then faith is profound and wonderful. When it is an excuse to accept the improbable, based only on the writings of a group of men from 1700 years ago, then it is not helpful because it does not lead toward right action and personal introspection.
As far as your friend goes, I could not say without knowing him. As I said, I know of no finer vehicle than meditation, but there are many ways to align the mind and body, open the heart and whatnot. You might learn a great deal from your friend, but it does sound like you have an attachment to his view... as though because he is examining another path that you should somehow also follow him. If you feel like it would be good thing to examine, examine it! You're in no danger, just keep an open mind and listen to what is said. I have total faith that your heart will help you hear what is right, no matter where you end up resting your head.
With warmth,
Matt
I have to answer very briefly for now, but I feel a need to respond. It's not about nothing so much as it's about "that which cannot be described adequately in words". For the time being, I would ask you to get thee to a library or a bookstore and try to find a book called Joyful Wisdom by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche. Here is a link to the review on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Living-Unlocking-Science-Happiness/dp/0307347311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277427112&sr=1-1
What I perceive here is a question about nihilism and total negation, and it's not about that. And as one of the resident Mayahanists, I will be checking back as soon as I can, but it will probably be tomorrow.
Here's some podcasts that I really like: http://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/1/
The Quantum sciences of superposition, wave-particle duality, Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle, etc. all seem to indicate that reality is holographic and empty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj_i7YqDwJA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlmrHMBW36w
"There is not a self residing in Name and Form, but the cooperation of the conformations produces what people call a man. Just as the word 'chariot' is but a mode of expression for axle, wheels, the chariot-body and other constituents in their proper combination, so a living being is the appearance of the groups with the four elements as they are joined in a unit. There is no self in the carriage and there is no self in man. O bhikkhus, this doctrine is sure and an eternal truth, that there is no self outside of its parts. This self of ours which constitutes Name and Form is a combination of the groups with the four elements, but there is no ego entity, no self in itself." - Buddha
Yes, Buddha did teach that there is eternity of truth and goodness. The impermanence and non-eternal doctrine applies to the forms, not eternal truth and moral law (i.e. the Dharma, Nirvana, existence.)
Why's that? And what benefit is there of believing in a celestial dictator?
Nope, God perpetuates suffering. Buddha prohibited the worship of gods and considered it a "lowly art" in the Samannapala Sutta.
The Buddha [Tittha Sutta]: "Is it true that you hold that... "Whatever a person experiences... is all caused by a Supreme Being's act of creation?"' Thus asked by me, they admitted, 'Yes.' Then I said to them, 'Then in that case, a person is a killer of living beings because of a Supreme Being's act of creation. A person is a thief... unchaste... a liar... a divisive speaker... a harsh speaker... an idle chatterer... greedy... malicious... a holder of wrong views because of a Supreme Being's act of creation.' When one falls back on creation by a Supreme Being as being essential, monks, there is no desire [motivation], no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.' When one can't pin down as a truth or reality what should & shouldn't be done, one dwells bewildered & unprotected. One cannot righteously refer to oneself as a contemplative. This was my second righteous refutation of those priests & contemplatives who hold to such teachings, such views."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.061.than.html
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Yes, I know I'm being unsystematic and methodologically sloppy here, but I'm trying to address Vince's question the way it's put. The only fall-back position I have is from existentialism, specifically Paul Tillich, to wit: Being-itself is that which affirms itself over and against nonbeing. And there is evidence that Tillich read and thoroughly considered the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and that will probably be where I pick up with this tomorrow.
The Buddhist path is to end greed, hatred and delusion. Some people have already achieved the first two due to previous causes and conditions. The 3 fold training includes virtue, concentration and discernment. One must have faith that the Buddha and his followers achieved enlightenment to walk the path.
You could say they have near perfect virtue but imperfect seeing. The way I see it, they are already "perfect" where they are but don't realise it. Why the need to look for answers outside themselves? There is still a sense of separation and a need for union with the other.
Your friend doesn't meditate and did not walk the path. I leave you with a quote from Anthony de Mello, a Jesuit priest.
pic620
My experience of Buddhism 'Buddhism' hence far has not shown me that I should not be dispassionate, nor has it NOT shown me the very real and true measures of beauty, love and friendship.
If anything they have enhanced and emphasised these aspects more. It can be easy to pick up a few books about Buddhism or hear in conversations aka forums as well about how Buddhism is about losing anger or emotion or dispassion.
But my experience has shown me Buddhism 'Buddhism' is much more interesting, real and alive than that which can be purported.
Do you have a real life Sangha and teacher nearby. Sometimes when our friends shake it can rock our foundations but as always, the choices are ours.
There is faith and there is experiential faith, this is the faith of knowing, of genuine conviction - not belief based, which unfortunately can happen in Buddhism, but of the knowing that even doubt cannot shake.
This is possible through a genuine flowering of practice, it can also be possible for you, but it is necessary to persist.
For Zen students, we say, sit zazen and continue to sit, even when it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
As to God, Joshu Sasaki Roshi, Thich Nhat Hanh, many great teachers of our day and age use this term. But God is not an object nor is He to be objectified. Your mission, should you choose to object is to know once and for all what or who this God really is.
It is a God which encompasses everything, denies nothing, is in and of as all. My experience has shown me this is not incompatible with Buddhism, but remember that it is just another word. We can call God anything, but there is that which can never be named or reached by word or even virtue. That is your real God, and Buddhism is one very good, experiential way - one very good possibility - in which to find the answers that you may very well seek, Vince.
Love and Blessings to you, pic620, whatever you should choose.
Abu
The Buddhist path as all about compassion, not dispassion.
Smiles, love, friendship... this is all vitaly important.
Is beauty lacking in buddhism also?
Nios.
Ananda asked buddha if friendship were half of the spiritual life. Buddha said say that not ananda, friendship is the whole of the spiritual life. I think there is something eternal but it is outside time and space. Unconditioned by habitual grasping. The buddhist path is the process of making the clouds go away so that sun of wisdom and compassion is shining brightly.
metta
A link to his talks: http://www.chronicleproject.com/chroniclesradio_classes/kf_for_teens.html
SherabDorje correctly picked up that I was struggling with what can sometimes seem like Nihilistic views in Buddhism - though I know they are not considered nihilistic because of the sutras.
Transmetaphysical, would you perchance have a link to the sutra in which "Buddha did teach that there is eternity of truth and goodness. The impermanence and non-eternal doctrine applies to the forms, not eternal truth and moral law (i.e. the Dharma, Nirvana, existence.)" ?
Pegembara- I especially loved that quote, it is very meaningful from my perspective particularly, because of how well I understand it first-hand.
aMatt, Abu, and NamelessRiver were especially kind in their responses.
I thoroughly enjoyed Nios' response that Buddhism is about becoming compassionate rather than dispassionate.
Finally- Jeffrey, my friend and I are very fond of that sutra. Even though he now walks a different path, we discus it's importance often, and the importance of having the wisdom of another compassionate being to walk with.
I will be seeking a Sangha in my community to help keep me in sitting meditation, as living in the present without ego's games of seeking security (whether in Buddhism or Christianity) is what I was searching for the whole time. I am lucky that I came to the path at such an early age, being only 19 now, I still have many years to fully understand the teachings.
I hope to become apart of this wonderful online Sangha as well, and look forward to continuing these types of discussions with all of you. Thank you again for the help you've been, and I will look into the links and sutras you've each recommended over the following weeks.
I hope it will help in some way, I know it has opened my mind and is starting the process of my letting go of my negative views of Religion (I have been an Atheist for some time and Irreligious to boot... I believe I am swaying towards agnosticism and accepting of religion in its many varying forms) Much meditation on this is needed but the groundwork has been laid...
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books2/Bhikkhu_Buddhadasa_No_Religion.htm
Lankavatara Sutra: "This Truth-essence which is discoverable in the enlightenment of all who are enlightened, is realizable as the regulative and sustaining principle of Reality, which forever abides. The Transcendental Intelligence attained intuitively by the Tathagatas by their self-realization of Noble Wisdom, is a realization of their own self-nature, -- in this sense the Tathagatas are permanent. The eternal-unthinkable of the Tathagatas is the "suchness" of noble Wisdom realized within themselves. It is both eternal and beyond thought.
It conforms to the idea of a cause and yet is beyond existence and non-existence. Because it is the exalted state of Noble-Wisdom, it has its own character. Because it is the cause of highest Reality, it is its own causation. Its eternality is not derived from reasonings based on external notions of being and non-being, nor of eternality nor non-eternality.
Being classed under the same head as space, cessation, Nirvana, it is eternal. Because it has nothing to do with existence and nonexistence, it is no Creator; because it has nothing to do with creation, nor with being and non-being, but is only revealed in the exalted state of noble Wisdom, it is truly eternal."
Source: http://www.purifymind.com/LankavataraSutra.htm
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I think that is a very good idea, Vince. Ideas, feelings, beliefs, they will come and go, but our job and our place of abiding is that which does not waver.
Find it and therein find true peace.
Blessings on your path, and in your journeys.
Form is emptiness, emptiness is none other than form
And yet God rejects nothing. There is that level which encompasses all, but is not bound by it. I believe. _/\_