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On the fence
Traveler810
Explorer
My parents and their ancestors were all Christian. They taught me nothing about any religious teachings, so that when I was 300 miles away from home at college, I was frightened in a very large city. I read Sitthartha by Hesse. I thought "I am alone in an urban setting - very much like being alone in the woods". So, I chose Buddhism - the way of self-discovery. That was in 1974. I have found much solace from the practice and much release from suffering by dropping attachments to desires, one by one. But one thing haunts me....what if my parents were right about the metaphysics of Christianity and at death I will be condemned to hell for practicing Buddhism. But Buddhism was my only way "out". I think I just have to focus on MY Buddhist practice, accept other religions as ok for other people, and know what karma and Buddhist ideas have for my life in Buddhism once and for all. Just drop the rest. Thank you for your indulgence. Be well,
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I asked my self that same questoin the other day. About hell existing.
I came to the conclusions that Christians preach of a just God. And i firmly beilieve that an infinite punishment for a finite number of sins cannot be justified. (example: Hell)
If god wanted to know why I didn't believe him in on my time here on earth, i would be very happy to sit down with said creator and have a nice conversation.
I think God would find that my reasons and motives were Logically sound, reasonable, and overall a benefit to my life.
Worse case scenario, ill be in hell with millions of other Buddhists trying to meditate through some PAIN!
For a long time I had very similar fears, and now and then I still have them. My family has what I'll call a fundamentalist Catholic background. I can give you some thoughts I have on the subject. Most of these thoughts operate on the original supposition "If Christianity is the true existence...", which can help when you're dealing with what if scenarios. (Whether or not they are true is a personal matter:))
Fear is not a valid motivator for love. So since Jesus said the first commandment was to love God with your whole heart, you wouldn't really be doing that anyway if you went back to Christainity. In a Christian-centric universe, fear is from the devil, so I don't think God would be too impressed if that was your motivation.
Christ said the second most important commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself. For me, when I am feeling least detached, I feel a great deal of love for strangers. And it feels legitimate, not the 'I'm going to pretend I care about you so I don't burn for eternity' love. Most of what Christ said was about caring for those less fortunate. That is perfectly compatible with Buddhism. One thing you might think about doing is volunteering in soup kitchens and the like - that is very much part of both religions.
Think of the Good Samaritan. He lived a good life according to what he was taught and Jesus exalted him over the hypocritical holy men.
Pride is the greatest sin. And what is Pride? Ego. What does Buddhism help us do? Obliterate the ego.
Finally, I'll offer this, have you ever looked at your fear of hell as just another attachment? More often than not, fear is a very ego-centric emotion. When you start to think about the what if's, try just watching the thoughts & watching their effects on you body. When they pass, just notice what they leave in their wake. Don't try to fight them.
If it turns out I'm wrong, then I'll meet up with you in Hell and we can work on meditations. We'll need to get really good at them so we can handle all that suffering!!
With Love-
My internet time is going to be sporadic and maybe limited for a while, but I'll definitely be back for this one. Sorry this had to brief.
If you Google up "primordial wisdom in Mahayana" or "primordial wisdom in Vajrayana", I think you'll see what I mean. I was raised Catholic myself and have been studying and trying to practice Buddhism since I was 15 and I'm very content with how I've done so far.
And I'm going to start reading a web site summarizing Carlos Castaneda's Teachings of Don Juan today.
I think that is pretty unlikely. But If I'm wrong, I'll see you there! (I'll spend most of my eternity hanging around the succubus fire orgy levels)
namaste
We should all wear name tags with our forum names, so we may recognize each other.
And for secret meetings, the code word is OKLAHOMA!
I think that Buddhists live more closely to what Jesus taught than most Christians do. He told us not to worship material things, and to love one another. He even told us to turn the other cheek, and while Christians like to say he was speaking metaphorically, the "Eight Versus for Training the Mind" of Tibetan Buddhism tells us to DO just that.
What Buddhists strive to do turns out to be what Jesus told us to do.
And I remember reading St. Theresa of Avila's treatise on Contemplative Prayer decades ago, and thinking, "She's writing about meditation!".
In the end, if you feel compassion and unity with all beings, how can you go to hell?
Well, most xians would say by not believing in the Abrahmic god. Which is pretty silly, really.
Mind you, the idea that Karma could send us to some Buddhist hell realm in a future life also seems pretty untenable within the Dharmic context. That's not what Karma is.
Likewise, what if Christians are wrong and they wasted time worshiping things that aren't real, fearing things that arent real, and making life decisions based on false beliefs.
As Buddha explained in the Tittha Sutta, belief in God is dangerous. Which is ironic because it counters the common notion that its better to believe in God just to be safe.
.
Sure you feel the way you do and I can see why but ask yourself this: does it matter and what is the point of it all that you worry about this? You won't know you're outcome when you die irrespective if you were a 'good' Buddhist or Christian.
There's a Zen saying:
"If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are...."
So don't worry about the future and what may potentially be just simply appreciate the now and the present.
To a disciple who was obsessed with the thought of life after death, the Master said, "Why waste a single moment thinking of the hereafter?" "But is it possible not to?" "Yes." "How?" "By living in heaven here and now." "And where is this heaven?" "In the here and now."
de Mello
http://www.gratefulness.org/giftpeople/deMello.htm
Hehehe, exactly!
Oh well... Sayings like this have become quite fashionable in recent times, and its clever conclusion is the perfect cop-out for any case of inopportune reflectiveness. But what do you do on rainy days? Life isn't always heaven in the here and now, you know. People do reflect on the meaning of life, death, life, and the afterlife, and other deep questions... that's just the human situation.
After all, we would have no need for the dhamma, if life was heaven.
Cheers, Thomas
Whether it is a cop out is totally your opinion, thought, and view is it not? Simply put, life is what we make of it by how we perceive it I believe. Sure it is human nature to go through a gamut of emotions from negative to positive, learning to see it as something that comes and go will allow you to be at peace with it.
Life is heaven, it's there but our views and thoughts shut it off from being seen. Dhamma is showing/teaching us how to see it.
Btw what do you do on rainy days? Nothing you can do about the weather so adapt to it!
"You cant change the winds but you can adjust the sails."
No, there is no "mine". I imply that it represents an objective observation bolstered by sound reasoning and not just a mercurial, subjective remark. I notice that statements like "be positive, embrace life, live now" are quite en vogue. It's part of our Zeitgeist. I mean, look at a random life style magazine or self-improvement book, and you will find similar advice all over the place. I am just surprised that nobody notices how trite this is.
As human beings we all face the same existential questions, and pushing them away by immersion into the world is not going to solve them. Spiritually, we must put our life into a meaningful relationship with reality and that reality includes our death. Hence, pondering this reality is NOT a waste of time, and thoughts about the "hereafter" ought not to be dismissed.
There you go. This statement could have been clipped right out of an arbitrary coffee table magazine. Life is what we make of it. Tell that to the starving population of Kenya, the political prisoners in Burma, or the Rio street kids. It isn't that simple.
Actually, I like rainy days. The monsoon season in my adopted country is my favourite season.
Cheers, Thomas
Get out of the rain so that you don't catch pneumonia.
Drive carefully and turn on your headlights.
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to express so it's difficult to respond to it specifically. All I can say in return is if your view or opinion is based on sound reasoning and what not, then good for you. All I am merely stating is your view that these sorts thinking that you consider 'en vogue' is simply your opinion.
I do agree with you on all statements even with the second half of your last sentence. But I ask you this, you have thoughts on the present, future, and the 'hereafter'. And then what???? How would these thoughts going to directly implicate on your current life? Therefore I ask, what is the point of it all particularly if it ends up causing you more stress??
If it sounds cliche then so be it, I do not care. I attach no labels, sentiment or feelings to it because I only take true meaning of the statement as what it is - life is indeed what you make of it.
I do understand that it is not so simple especially for those who live in poor conditions that they can not escape from. But what can you or they do? For whatever reason it is , we are all born into our conditions and environment. There is simply no choice in that.
If we're lucky that we're not impoverished then we can and should appreciate each and every moment because it truly is precious and fortunate considering what goes on around the world. But if we're unlucky and we do live in the environments that you described, then sadly that's life. If that's too much of a brutal statement, then life is brutal.
Hahaha, well continue enjoying it!
All the best, Nam.
I know that this is a serious topic, but I have to say that this point made me laugh.
I think that sometimes the only thing to do with inherently irrational and internally-contradictory assertions like the suggestion of a plane of existence whose divinely-sanctioned purpose is to overpunish mortals for committing sins largely through ignorance... is... well, to laugh. I've always been more inclined to laugh in the face of darkness, and if it disappears in the laughter, then I guess it wasn't so scary. For fear of Christian legends, I suggest a substantial dose of George Carlin.
Then I was an atheist for about five years, now I practise lay-buddhism for about 6...8 years...still have a bible tough, read once in a while in it.
If god and jesus are love, they will never condem you for trying to be good, peacefull and kind. If Jezus were alive today he would cry for all the damage done in the name of christianity and his name. All religions are one, that's how I see it. All regions are peace, love and harmoney, that will suffice when there is a judgement.
I have blind faith about what I just wrote, it is the fundament my sprituality is based upon.
I happen to agree with Truthseeker on this, though I admire your ability to take the 'life is what we make it' at face value. I too have a problem with cliche touchy-feely sayings because I think people often use them as something akin to a cigarette - they say them to get a little boost of feel-good without really looking at the misery of life. But that's probably because I just take everything too seriously
I do have trouble ascribing to anything that doesn't cover all scenarios. I am new to meditation & Buddhist ideas but I have been practicing for a few months, and I often think to myself 'Does Buddhism make sense both in the face of my life and life in a concentration camp?' And I think I think that it does. To me that lends itself a good deal of credence.
I think there are grounds to be sceptical with cliches but truth is we don't really know if we're taking things too serious or too light for that matter. I'm not implying that we should ignore the miseries that occur in life, but what are we to do when faced with such scenarios especially if the solutions do not appear to be simple or easy? This is where Buddhist philosophy is beneficial, because it guides us to understand why such miseries occur and how to cope with them. That is just my take, feel free to correct if I am wrong
I agree, I do think the attraction with Buddhism is how universal and adaptable to every situation it is. In my own life, I am lucky my difficulties and dramas can be reconciled quite easily with a little unclouded thought. But then again I'm the eternal optimist who always sees that glass is half full who at the same time is also realistic (that's what I like to think
I am fortunate I didn't suffer through the Holocaust or anything that can be deemed truly dramatic so I can not speak from that kind of perspective. Whether Buddhism can assist me there in that scenario is something I don't know but I like to think that it could.
I think you have answered your own questions or doubts. For what it's worth, i find comfort in the thought that when I find myself in situations I often ask myself 'what would Jesus do', and 'what would Buddha do' and always arrive at the same answer. I suspect that in time, your 'hauntings' will grow quieter until they disappear entirely.
peace.