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Question/Conundrum on family / Buddhism
Hello all,
My name is Simon, I'm 28 years old and a curious first time poster - and with the subject header for this section as 'no question is too basic' I shall ask mine!
I've always been fascinated by Buddhism (probably initiated by my love of old kung fu movies I'm afraid to say! '36 chambers of shaolin' etc) and it's been the only religion that has genuinely appealed to me, probably since I found out about the principle of 'desire = suffering' So to release all desire is the only true path to fulfilment. It just makes so much sense to me. I have also read a little about the 7 stages of consciousness and the benefits of meditation.
Anyway, I get to my question! A couple of years ago I was in the Northern city of Chiang Mai in Thailand, and had the opportunity to visit a beautiful monastery called Wat Srisuphan (Silver Temple) & chat to some of the young monks there. They were keen to practise English and I was intrigued about their lifestyle. It may have been a case of 'lost in translation' but the question they could not answer me was this - (remember, I am totally naive here!) 'If Buddhism is the one true religion, would it be a good thing if it spread and everybody in the world practised Buddhism? I assume, the answer would be yes? I then asked if the true path to enlightenment means becoming a monk and striving for enlightenment - and if that was so, and the whole world became Buddhist monks - would the human race simply die out as no one is having families due to the pursuit of enlightenment? Granted, that must have been tricky for me to explain and him to understand what I meant... but you can see my conundrum I'm thinking about!
The basis of that query is that from what I understand, Buddhism is not a family centred religion, especially with a monastic lifestyle. And is it right that family bonds impede reaching true enlightenment? As in the inherent nature of families and family relationships produces attachments that constitute formidable obstacles to achieving detachment from worldly affairs and desires... I mean, if we live out our Karma and are reborn until we find enlightenment and reach Nirvana, surely at some point EVERYONE will eventually get there and there will be no humans left on the planet (as there are no more re-births) Is that right? And then this thought hit me the other day, which kind of answered my query - that maybe when this happens and we have ALL found enlightenment & true knowledge - the universe will implode on itself, reverse back to nothing and explode in another Big Bang only for it to start all over again.... (wheel of life!) Haha, OK- maybe not the last part then!
Any feedback would be much appreciated :smilec:
My name is Simon, I'm 28 years old and a curious first time poster - and with the subject header for this section as 'no question is too basic' I shall ask mine!
I've always been fascinated by Buddhism (probably initiated by my love of old kung fu movies I'm afraid to say! '36 chambers of shaolin' etc) and it's been the only religion that has genuinely appealed to me, probably since I found out about the principle of 'desire = suffering' So to release all desire is the only true path to fulfilment. It just makes so much sense to me. I have also read a little about the 7 stages of consciousness and the benefits of meditation.
Anyway, I get to my question! A couple of years ago I was in the Northern city of Chiang Mai in Thailand, and had the opportunity to visit a beautiful monastery called Wat Srisuphan (Silver Temple) & chat to some of the young monks there. They were keen to practise English and I was intrigued about their lifestyle. It may have been a case of 'lost in translation' but the question they could not answer me was this - (remember, I am totally naive here!) 'If Buddhism is the one true religion, would it be a good thing if it spread and everybody in the world practised Buddhism? I assume, the answer would be yes? I then asked if the true path to enlightenment means becoming a monk and striving for enlightenment - and if that was so, and the whole world became Buddhist monks - would the human race simply die out as no one is having families due to the pursuit of enlightenment? Granted, that must have been tricky for me to explain and him to understand what I meant... but you can see my conundrum I'm thinking about!
The basis of that query is that from what I understand, Buddhism is not a family centred religion, especially with a monastic lifestyle. And is it right that family bonds impede reaching true enlightenment? As in the inherent nature of families and family relationships produces attachments that constitute formidable obstacles to achieving detachment from worldly affairs and desires... I mean, if we live out our Karma and are reborn until we find enlightenment and reach Nirvana, surely at some point EVERYONE will eventually get there and there will be no humans left on the planet (as there are no more re-births) Is that right? And then this thought hit me the other day, which kind of answered my query - that maybe when this happens and we have ALL found enlightenment & true knowledge - the universe will implode on itself, reverse back to nothing and explode in another Big Bang only for it to start all over again.... (wheel of life!) Haha, OK- maybe not the last part then!
Any feedback would be much appreciated :smilec:
0
Comments
>>If Buddhism is the one true religion
I'm not sure what "the one true religion" means. Buddhism is just a bunch of different religions that emerged from the Buddha's teachings. The Buddha stated the purpose of his teachings were solely for the purpose of explaining the cause and cure of dukkha (unsatisfactoriness, mental dis-ease). A quality of the truths of dukkha which he taught are they they can be seen and verified by each individual in the here-and-now. These are the truths of our experience of reality. Other religions have different purposes, purposes the Buddha's teachings weren't concerned with. That doesn't make them lesser; they're not comparable.
>>would it be a good thing if it spread and everybody in the world practised Buddhism?
Qualities that emerge through practice are non-clinging to views, compassion, loving-kindness... in theory, yes. But by this I mean practising core Dhamma, not Buddhism the religion.
>>I then asked if the true path to enlightenment means becoming a monk and striving for enlightenment - and if that was so, and the whole world became Buddhist monks - would the human race simply die out as no one is having families due to the pursuit of enlightenment?
There were many lay practitioners in the suttas (the Pali Canon) who realized Nibbana/enlightenment. Being a monk isn't a prerequisite.
>>The basis of that query is that from what I understand, Buddhism is not a family centred religion, especially with a monastic lifestyle.
There are two aspects of Buddhism: monastics and laity. Both are equally important and in fact there are more lay practitioners than there are monks/nuns. Quoting Richard from a Thread just below:
>>As in the inherent nature of families and family relationships produces attachments that constitute formidable obstacles to achieving detachment from worldly affairs and desires...
Yes, they can, but they don't have to. From a Buddhist perspective, loving your family and wanting to spend time with etc. isn't a problem in and of itself. Sometimes you want something, but if you don't get it, no big deal, right? That's not dukkha. Sometimes you get pissed and angry, obsess over it and can't stop craving... that's dukkha.
>>I mean, if we live out our Karma and are reborn until we find enlightenment and reach Nirvana, surely at some point EVERYONE will eventually get there and there will be no humans left on the planet (as there are no more re-births) Is that right?
Not in my opinion.
A lot of my confusion with "how to be Buddhist" type stuff came with the more difficult parts being excused as "oh that's just for monks." Granted, it has been said a few times to me (and to others asking these questions here) that Buddhism is not a fanaticism religion. We don't try to spread it by convincing people and making the entire world Buddhist. But yes, like you say, there is still that question lingering... Would it not be good for everyone to be Buddhist? In my perspective, there are so many jobs and roles that would have to disappear. Things would change more drastically than I can fathom.
I also think about the cycles of the universe and how it may relate to the understanding of its inhabitants. Carl Sagan once said that humans are the universe becoming sentient and aware of itself. I like this line of thought because in essence we are made of the universe, it's like an animal evolving to think, to feel, to decide. We are simply the parts in its brain that allows these things to develop. Perhaps you are right, maybe when all living creatures become enlightened (in a trillion bajillion years) the universe will feel finished with its work and go back to nothing.
I have a feeling though, these ideas will be considered trivial and meaningless conjectures by those who drive the point of letting go (of estimations of things we cannot understand in this life).
Agreed. Interesting stuff to think about, but thinking about it is not liberating.
That doesn't go for everybody here though. I happen to be interested in many of those things myself and they are comfortable for me in my approach to Buddhism.
But I don't have a reliable and consistent internet connection these days. For now I will suggest The Joy of Living by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche- and The Universe in a Single Atom by HH Dalai Lama.
To answer your direct question, if we were all enlightened, we could have sex and enjoy it and not become attached to it and so not develop all the terrible things that that particular attachment can manifest. But even if we did not, I don't see humanity as 'good' or 'bad' so if we died out, then we died out. We will die out eventually anyway. The tragedy, if you think it thus, is now or later.
Here is a bit caveat - I don't think my beliefs align with most Buddhists, so do not take my reply to be 'the Buddhist stance' I try to be very open minded, and so my beliefs are always changing. Right now I believe this:
We came to be via the evolutionary process. The evolutionary process is a process, nothing more, so it doesn't take anything 'into account'. It just happens. The traits that allowed us to survive do not necessarily help us to be at peace. Along with the wonderful mystery of sentience, we did develop a way to transcend what evolution made us (which to me, is the real miracle); Buddha and others found concrete ways to overcome these destructive/agitating parts of our being by meditation and a particular way of life.
I don't believe in any type of rebirth aside from the fact that the material my body is made up of will decompose after I die and create other life. I don't believe in Karma as a force that works outside the normal workings of cause and effect (i.e. if you treat people like crap, they will not like you). I like Buddhism because it allows for these beliefs - or at least I'm not kicked out of meditations for believing them or thrown off message boards. I feel that the Buddha and others are very wise and spent tremendous effort disciplining their mind, so they are probably right and I am probably wrong. But I believe what I believe and I won't pretend or coerce my mind to think differently. I will meditate and try to be kind to all and detached from the things that create desire in me. Perhaps I will come to agree with Buddha on everything - hopefully, since the world Buddha paints is much more pleasing than the one I currently believe in.
Hope that longwinded self-indulgent answer helps
I live in Chiang Mai and I know Wat Srisuphan quite well. Funny story. I think you might have perplexed these monks. Their English speaking skill is usually below the threshold for meaningful philosophical discussions...
In Thailand, Buddhism puts great emphasis on monasticism, so yes, it isn't very family-oriented. Obviously, if the human race consisted of Theravada monks and nuns only, it would face an extinction problem. But that is entirely hypothetical.
I would not be worried about any hypothetical lack of human rebirth due to proliferation of enlightened beings. Looks like we have a long way to go. Of course, a major event in human evolution could change that, but perhaps the sun will go red giant long before that.
Anyway, it's all just empty speculation.
Cheers, Thomas