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Heart Sutra
What are your thoughts on the heart sutra?:)
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but I remain unconvinced that it's from the Buddha.
Its meaning and effectiveness as a Buddhist scripture is quite significant and sophisticated.
But we're not talking about "all Buddhist scriptures".
Discussion is focussed on the Heart Sutra.
Edit note:
Furthermore whether it was the spoken word or not, I question whether he was even the origin.
also im kinda pissing others off, is there any suggestions for posting. I feel that im too outspoken.
Very profound teaching Buddha gave us !
The Essence of wisdom sutra (The shorter version) maybe small but indeed there is alot of underlying wisdom contained within such, A very profound insight into The perfection of wisdom.
Nagarjuna full realized Buddha's intention he knows exactly what he is talking about ! Very profound !
Are you familiar with the Attakavagga? If not, its quite interesting.
It could be interpreted as a Pali predecessor/inspiration to the Heart Sutra and Madhyamaka in general.
Dont mean to hijack.
The heart sutra, in my opinion is the gateway to Madhyamaka. Its also extraordinarily condensed which leads to misinterpretation.
In my opinion a commentary and teacher student relationship is necessary to fully understand it.
Its also extraordinary in its relevance to our knowledge of the modern world and the universe.
Nagarjuna's view is extraordinary and his writings on it are profoundly informative and relevant to our understanding of the nature of reality.
It is always best to study such things with a teacher friend !
The second turning did happen, Buddha was like a skilled doctor he would not give teachings of Dharma to those who could not understand it or desire it, The very fact that such beings have arose that embody the perfected qualities of Buddha's and Bodhisattvas is an indirect indicator that these teachings where given.
If not how on earth would samsaric beings develop such noble and workable aspirations by themselves being as obstructed as they are ?
He established many of the centers of learning (Tib. shedra) in Nyingma and Sakya monasteries in the early 20th century.
More translations of his works should come out soon.
Here are a few short works by him.
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/shenga.html
I"m not sure if this is necessarily the best translation, but it has the first part usually omitted.
From this site:
http://gotaro2.homestead.com/page42.html
"Thus have I heard at one time. The Buddha dwelt at Vulture Peak together with a Sangha of one hundred thousand monks and nuns, and seventy thousand Bodhisattvas. At that time the Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara arose from her seat among the assembly and went up to the Buddha. Facing him, she joined her palms together and bowed respectfully. With reverence she said, "I wish to explain for this assembly the Bodhisattva's Heart of Perfect Wisdom which is the Universal Womb of Wisdom." Then the Buddha said, "Excellent, excellent, Great Compassionate One!" Then the Avalokiteshvara entered into her meditation and coursing in Perfect Wisdom observed that all five aggregates are empty of own-nature. Arising from her meditation she said: the the rest we are all familiar with.
Anyway to answer what I think of the Sutra, it isn't chanted in Jodo Shinshu for the most part, but I think it is beautiful, poetic and profound, regardless of who spoke it or it's origins.
Does it matter if it did not come from Shakyamuni himself? Are the words of an Arahant different or less significant that that of Buddha himself?
I don't believe it was taught by the historical Buddha. I think it was a later add-on. The text I have (in 'Essence of the Heart Sutra' - by HHDL) also says "he " for the deity Avalokiteshvara, and not 'she' as quoted by Shotuko.
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Um... if the words are possibly spoken by an imaginary being created by the writer (s), then yes, they are less significant than the words of the historical Buddha - and maybe even border on the realms of fantasy fiction in a certain sense.
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( As a note it should be mentioned that reciting the mantra bring the future effect into the path of practise, By reciting we are creating the causes to accomplish the 5 paths to enlightenment. )
From Geshe-la's translation.
' Therefore, the mantra of the perfection of wisdom, the mantra of great knowledge, the unsurpassed mantra, the equal to the unequalled mantra, the mantra that thoroughly pacifies all suffering, since it is not false, should be known as the truth. The mantra of the perfection of wisdom is proclaimed.
TAYATHA OM GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA
Avaloketishvara explains the 5 paths by proclaiming the mantra of the perfection of wisdom.
The mantra of the perfection of wisdom has the qualities of protecting our mind from the two obstructions and associated fears.
It is also known as "The mantra of great knowledge" Because it knows the great seal, Also known as emptiness.
It is also known as "The unsurpassed mantra" Because there is no mantra superior to it as the perfection of wisdom is the also known as the mother of all the Buddha's.
It is also known as " The equal to the unequal mantra " Because there is no mantra equal to this.
It is also known as " The mantra that throughly pacifies all suffering " Because through sincere practise of the perfection of wisdom all beings are able to eliminate their suffering completly as it helps serve the root of samsara.
'Since it is not false, Should be known as the truth' Teaches that it is non deceptive, Protects us from all fears and suffering, and therefore will never deceive us !
'The mantra of the perfection of wisdom is proclaimed ' Introduces how to practise it.
The explaination of the Mantra TAYATHA OM GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA
The mantra retained in its original sanskrit explains in very condensed form how to practise the 5 mahayana paths, Which we attain in complete dependence upon the perfection of wisdom.
TAYATHA Means it is like this, Indicating that however belong the the mahayana and wishes to train in the perfection of wisdom should train this way.
OM The sanskrit letter OM is composed of 3 letters A,U,M These represent the body, speech and mind of the person who is travelling to great enlightenment, In some texts it is not included but as it was tradition to recite the Mantra in the Monastrys to avert hindrances I ( Geshe-la ) Heard it recited many times like this.
GATE The first one means to go, Not to external places but to internal places through the power of generating Bodhichitta we should go or proceed to the mahayana path of accumulation. Having done this we should practise the stages and paths of method and wisdom of the path of accumulation.
GATE The second one again means to go and teaches that having improved the stages of the path of method and wisdom of the path of accumulation, We should go to the Mahayana path of preperation, Having reached this path we should practise the method and wisdom of the path of preparation.
PARAGATE Means ' Perfectly Go ' and teaches we should not remain on the path of Preparation permenantly having improved the path of method and wisdom of the path of preparation, We should go to the Mahayana path of seeing, The 3rd path to Great enlightenment, We perfectly go to the path of seeing because it is a superior path beyond ordinary paths, Having attained the path of seeing we must practise the Stages of the path of method and wisdom of seeing.
PARASAMGATE Means ' Perfectly and completly go 'and teaches that we should not remain on the Path of seeing, Having progressed along the path of Stages of the path of method and wisdom of seeing, We should go to the mahayana path of meditation the 4th Mahayana path ' Perfectly and completly go ' also indicates that the 4th path is beyond ordinary but also beyond the 3rd path as well, Having done this we need to practise this 4th path The Mahayana path of meditation.
BODHI Means enlightenment and teaches that we must complete the 4th path " The stages of the path of method and wisdom of meditation " and attain the 5th and final Mahayana path, The Mahayana path of no more learning, When we have reached this path we have acheived Great enlightenment.
SOHA means ' Build the foundation ' That we should practise the path of Accumulation, Then Preparation, Then seeing, Then meditation, Then no more learning. In summary this mantra teaches one how to practise ' The perfection of wisdom ' That is accomplishing the 5 Mahayana paths.
In China, Avalokiteshvara is portrayed as a woman. Hense, some translations say she, and some say he.
Nios.
Palzang
Depends on which ones are imaginary friends, I guess.
_/\_
Personally I see no difference. However, I am aware that we are talking about a Mahayana sutra, and I'm speaking from a Mahayana perspective.
Nios.
This is what i have found but its pretty bare bones
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/patrul/stages_and_paths.html
Yes i certainly do, The book Joyfull path of Good fortune has a complete guide to the stages of the path of Lamrim, and all the information one need for the path.
I consider it my Buddhist Bible
Its available through the link at the bottom of my sig on Tharpa, an excellent book indeed.
The path Begings with Generating spontanious Bodhichitta....we enter into the first Mahayana path once this is done, Is it Tsongkhapas Lamrim chenmo ? I always find its good to have a good commentary to it as modern times call for a modern presentation, Dont get me wrong the teachings are still good though.
Dude ? It should tell you how to progress it certainly does in the Joyfull path ?
Because it all exists only in your mind.
Why does it all exist only in your mind?
The same physical person born in a different time or location will assume a different personality, behavior and point of view.
E.g. Why does Tarzan behave like a wild man - because he had grown up in the jungles. Would he be different if he grew up in a city - yes he would be. Same goes for all the wild children that had shown up in history at one point or another.
In the Tang dynasty (in China), fat women were considered beauties. Does that still happen today?
In another time, cannibalism was acceptable. Do we find that acceptable anymore?
This proves that nothing in our mind is ever real - everything that we conceive, feel, know is a product of the environment we had lived in.
Nothing is ever absolute. That is why, criminals can be forgiven, we are truly products of our environment.
The suffering that we have all felt has been futile! Be enlightened, all seekers.
This is what the Heart Sutra teaches - once you can understand that everything is empty, you can let go if you choose to, it is only a matter of time.
Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha!
It does not matter who the originator was - it is a work of sheer genius. Short, to the point and allows for enlightenment.
I believe in the liberation that this sutra gives, but is anyone able to prove reincarnation? If there be any masters around, I deplore you to teach us.
My own experience has shown though, that this mind has never been born. it's been doing its thing from forever ago, and from the looks of it, will be doing its thing forever into the future. This body has a definite starting point. I don't think it's a far fetched assumption that there have been other bodies, other "I"'s that have used it just like this body has. it's the only explanation that really makes sense