Taking Refuge and practicing lay Buddhists - A question

FuturShoc

I have been studying Buddhism for about 3 years now. The more I learn, the more it connects with me.

Now, in my mind, I have identified as a Buddhist for about a year and a half. I have also begun attending a sunday night practice (Theravada/Vipassana) near my home. There are several lineage practices held in the same Buddhist center, but I have found this one to be closest in teaching to what I have been studying.

My question: How does the ceremony of Taking Refuge play into my practice?

At this point, I would very much like to deepen my commitment to my practice, but I haven't been able to get what I would consider straight answers about this within my Sangha.

It comes down to this: I don't want to be referring to myself as Buddhist if the Taking Refuge ceremony is a prerequisite and I have not been able to participate. I want to follow the legitimate path.

On the other hand, if it isn't something I should focus on, I'm willing to hear that as well.

Can anyone offer insight?
* To be clear, I understand the idea behind Taking Refuge. I'm looking for input on its priority in my own practice.

Jeffrey

I might try asking some sangha members how refuge has helped them practice.. I think there is somewhat of a mystical aspect to it. I mean why does it matter if you went through a formal ceremony or just take refuge in your heart? And then there is a part of how refuge helps your practice to succeed.

aMatt

FuturShoc wrote: »

It comes down to this: I don't want to be referring to myself as Buddhist if the Taking Refuge ceremony is a prerequisite and I have not been able to participate. I want to follow the legitimate path.

FuturShoc,

I think your dedication to a legitimate path is great! The most important aspect of Buddhism, in my opinion, is walking an authentic path. If you feel as though Buddhism answers the questions you've been asking, and you want to move further with it, then taking refuge might be a great expression of the dedication you have. Its not needed, however, to call yourself a Buddhist.

Much like marriage is an expression of love and dedication, so is taking refuge. Wanting to 'legitimize' your relationship with Buddhism might not be the proper motive. (imagine saying to a partner you wanted to get married to make your relationship legitimate!) No well practiced Buddhist I know would look at you differently either way... its something personal, and in my opinion is really only for you.

Good luck friend,

Matt

caz

When we take refuge, We receive the help of the enlightened beings, and protection from dangers.

federica

Taking Refuge is something you do, because you know what you want to do.

You can take refuge at home, in a small "home-made" ceremony, of your own, that is symbolic to you, and you alone...
(I did this many years ago.)

You can also take refuge with your fellow sangha members on a significant and important Buddhist celebratory day, such as Vesak, on the full moon in May.
(I did this too.)

Taking Refuge is about what this does for you and how you implement your own practice.
there are no pre-requisites, demands expectations, requirements or recommendations.
Taking Refuge is about what you impose upon yourself.

Nothing else.

FuturShoc

Thanks to those of you who have offered your input.

aMatt, I understand your point about motivation. However, it is difficult to find a 'perfect' motivation when one is simply trying to answer questions for oneself, no?

I'll point out in my original post that I said, "...if it isn't something I should focus on, I'm willing to hear that as well." I have plenty of study, meditation and self-reflection to do for many years to come. This discussion is simply one stop along the way.

aMatt

FuturShoc wrote: »

aMatt, I understand your point about motivation. However, it is difficult to find a 'perfect' motivation when one is simply trying to answer questions for oneself, no?

I'm not sure there are perfect or imperfect motivations, there is just the way things happen to be. However, perhaps it would be best as an expression of your own motivation, rather than looking for external validation... a proper way to label yourself compared to others is unnecessary.

IronRabbit

We are all buddhas. Most have stuff in the way of recognizing that "awakened one" in each. Labeling ourselves buddhists we tend toward prerequisites and authenication to legitimize our buddhism to ourselves and others. All that is okay in and of itself but not as important as what is in your heart. Discipline, practice and precepts can very possibly help the good heart grow.......

username_5

In some Buddhist traditions those of us on this forum would be considered a sangha and you are taking refuge in it right now.

In some traditions only the community of monks and nuns are considered the sangha.

In other words, if you are getting together with a group of Buddhists you would have to ask the leadership of this group about the specifics of what they consider the sangha and whether or not they have any sort of ritual that you can participate in should you so desire to formalize the relationship.

treederwright

I feel that taking refuge is a commitment. It says that yes i trust the buddha, yes what the buddha said really works , yes there are people who have done it. I affirm these core ideas daily.

Mason-sChild

If you are ready to make the commitment then its a good thing to do.
When I took a refuge the Bhante gave me the precepts and I recited them back to him and he chanted a blessing over me.
The thing I remember the most is probably why I walk this path. He told me that I was not making the vows to him, or any sort of god, nobody would ask me if I was following the precepts, I was making the vows to myself. He could show me the way, but could not not walk it for me.
If you choose to walk the path, youre doing a good thing.

RichardH

There is no one right answer, it is different for different people. For me it was a deeply emotional and religious commitment. The word religious is pretty toxic these days, and for good reason, but I think the word in its deeper sense is appropriate for my experience. Part of taking refuge was seeing and opening my heart to those virtues and qualties represented by the Buddha and the "Blessed ones disciples who have practiced well". It represented the qualities of unconditional compassion which I was sorely needing, and that I knew in my heart were the highest value. This appreciation was hightened at the time because it contrasted deeply with the cynical cultural mileu I was immersed in . Having the good fortune to meet and share practice with some very mature and wise teachers has only deepend this sense of appreciation and has chastened my very egotistical tendencies (somewhat). There is also the fact of life and death. The talk of having this opportunity to awaken from the wheel of becoming and not blowing it is true. The difference between non-suffering (dukkha) and suffering has been made clear. Samsara can get very very bad, and I know what it is like to drown in it. I am determined to finish this task. Taking refuge is (in my view) part of the 100% commitment to the path, not "Buddhism", but the path, until the job is done. It aint easy.

Dazzle

For myself, taking Refuge in a special ceremony was a very important commitment. I had previously done it alone informally in front of my personal shrine at home ...but the teacher I had found had told me it was time for me take it formally with a group of other students.

Afterwards it seemed to have created a very meaningful new step forward for me on the path.



.

andyrobyn

It was an important commitment for me also ... likened in my experience to committing to marriage vows and even more so an oath we had sort of thrust upon us early in my nursing training. Although I had just repeated the words without much thought at a capping ceremony, they came to help me stick it out at those " moments " when it was a very tough and emotionally draining experience during my three year training course ... ie. clearly remember being 18 years old and very tired after 10 nights of night duty in a row, little sleep during the hot days of summer and being sent to clean up body fluids at 0400 on a Sunday morning by a grumpy senior nurse who had just left the patient and called me in then went to sit down in the nurses station and have a coffee chatting to the doctor. When thoughts of
" what is all this all about " arose, the words from that ceremony came back to me - doing for others what they would do for themselves if they were able. Taking Refuge has been like that for me.

bodhiactivity

Refuge vows are the basis of future vows on the path including, ordination vows, bodhisattva vows and tantric vows. Without refuge vows, you can't take the further vows, ie they won't be planted in your mindstream.

If you are already believing in Dharma, then you have basically in your heart taken refuge in Dharma. So why not take it in an actual ceremony which gives you the authentic lineage right back to the time of Buddha Shakyamuni?

Refuge vows also gives one guidance and protection... there are so many other benefits...

"By simply taking Refuge, you plant the seed of liberation within yourself. You distance yourself from all the

negative <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>actions you have accumulated and develop more and more positive actions.

Taking Refuge is the support for all vows, the source of all good qualities. <O:P>

Ultimately it will lead you to the state of Buddhahood." <O:P>

p. 187, Patrul Rinpoche, Words of My Perfect Teacher , Shambhala Publications, Boston, MA, USA, 1998).

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Some references i hope can help...

http://pathgate.net/index.php/audio-teachings-by-lama-dondrup-dorje.html
(Refer to teaching on taking refuge)

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/sakyong/smr-talk2.html

http://www.dhagpo-kagyu.org/anglais/science-esprit/fondements/refuge/sham-refuge.htm

http://www.thubtenchodron.org/GradualPathToEnlightenment/A_Refuge.html
(Very thorough presentation of refuge and its benefits etc)