Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

The weakest man in the village

NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
edited August 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Yes, I took the title from one of Takuan's relplies in the "Vagabond" manga ( Takuan: "You, are the weakest one in the village"). It describes my situation that I'm passing through now...
The story goes like this : from the beginning of summer holiday, I went every day to 'call up' an old friend to play basketball. Everytime I passed on the small lane in front of his block, I saw a group of boys, 'cool people' as how they describe themselves, sitting on the benches, always trying to troll me. At the beginning they ignored me, and was fine. Nowadays, they try to troll me and my friend everytime they see us passing in front of them. To describe these guys, they are my 'enemies' from childhood, people whom I hated, as well as they hated me. Some of them were friends of mine and we were getting along pretty well. Now, the situation changed. To prove how cool they are, all these people try to mock me and my friends.
Today, one of those people decided to troll me while I waited for my friend to come outside. I was helding a b-ball, the 'troll' told me to pass him the ball, as he was going to show me a 'cool trick'. I knew he was trolling, and I laughed at him, and he asked me to show him a trick better than his. I took the ball, and I pretended to hit the guy with the ball. After that he asked for another trick.I told him to wait a second until I find one. He then wanted to rush, and offered to sit in a basketball defensive postion. I took advantage and said to him to stay in that position until I find one cool trick. He stayed like that for a minute, while I sat down on a low fence ignoring him. The guy stayed like that for a minute, just for my friend who arrived to see the backtrolling.

Now, my question is, what should I do not to get mocked and trolled everytime I go to 'call up' my friend. I don't want to insult them in a violent way, because a 10 to 1 fight will start in that spot. I want to know how can I 'backtroll' them everytime they see me...How do I kill this fear of being overwhelmed by them ?

Comments

  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited August 2010
    You could try paying them some compliments as you pass by them. The best way to dismantle enemies is by regarding them as friends. Wish them happiness when away from them, be nice when near... dismantle the view in your head that makes you think you are not the same as they are.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited August 2010
    your situation reminds me a lot of one presented in the movie Gandhi. not sure if you've seen it or not, but i highly recommend it.

    it's been a while since i've seen it, but as i recall, in the movie, Gandhi is walking with a christian friend of his and there is a situation where some 'young thugs' try to intimidate them and Gandhi does not shy away or return their hatred, rather, he speaks to them with composure and respect.
    he then says:

    "Doesn't the new testament say, 'if your enemy strikes you on the right cheek, offer him the left'?
    I have thought about it a great deal. And I suspect it meant you must show courage. Be willing to take a blow- several blows -to show you will not strike back nor will you be turned aside. And when you do that, it calls on something in human nature- something that makes his hatred for you decrease and his respect increase, I think Christ grasped that and I have seen it work."
  • edited August 2010
    zazen and whiskey man
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited August 2010
    The payoff for their behavior, is to see you flustered. It makes them feel powerful and if they are feeling the need to overpower someone, there is not much you can do about it except don't give them what they want to see.

    That does not mean to become violent with them. You need to demonstrate to them that your course is and always will be your course. They are not going to push you into losing your temper or back down. Like mentioned earlier, Ghandi confronted threats with kindness but also unshakable determination.

    There are no guarantees you won't get beat up but there never were any so no matter what you do it sounds like it could be heading that way. If it happens, do so with courage and stand your ground. They will have to respect you even if they get the better of you physically. And if it doesn't come to physical confrontation, they will still have to respect you.

    There is much to be learned from war to tell the truth. An old general once said if all is lost, the only way to change things is to charge on harder.
  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited August 2010
    I just ignore people like that.

    There's no use insulting them or arguing, because they're trying to get a reaction out of you. If you show neutrality they'll get bored with trying to antagonize you.

    Why worry about them? You've got a lot more going on than sitting on a stoop and bothering people who come by.
  • edited August 2010
    "The weakest man in the village." This phrase probably brings you some small comfort by expressing poetically your feelings in these situations but how much is this storyline helping the situation? Does it open your mind, heart and awareness up or close it down? How accurate is it? In the instance you described here you seemed to have done a good job of diffusing things until backup arrived. Some believe resisting resorting to violence the highest form of strength, others may call it weakness. What do you think? There is no way to control all elements therefore no way to have permanent absolute protection from violence. But it seems to me the evidence is you can trust yourself to find strategies and solutions to make sure you are not contributing to the fire.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    mugzy wrote: »
    I just ignore people like that.

    There's no use insulting them or arguing, because they're trying to get a reaction out of you. If you show neutrality they'll get bored with trying to antagonize you.

    Why worry about them? You've got a lot more going on than sitting on a stoop and bothering people who come by.

    Well, it's hard to ignore them...so I have to deal with them everytime we see each other.
  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Well, it's hard to ignore them...so I have to deal with them everytime we see each other.

    It may be hard, but not impossible. That's just my advice, as someone who has been in way too many fights and knows how things escalate. The best way to win a fight is to not get personally involved.

    Try to learn to tolerate their insults, or simply be civil and ignore their ignorant harassment. They can't stay on that stoop forever.
  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Vagabond is my favorite manga, see my avatar? I relate with Musashi a lot, he probably fits me better than most people. Like Musashi I have spent most of my life alone. I hardly spent much time in regular schools, and I spent more time training and competing, so Musashi is a character that resonates well with me.

    When Takuan told Musashi at that young age that he was the weakest in the village, what he actually meant was that he did not know how to love. He did not know compassion. Musashi only had himself that is why he was driven to be the most powerful samurai for the time, and I'd say he succeeded. So what Musashi wanted and what Takuan was trying to teach were very different things. That's why its such a great story, a samurai story with Buddhist tones. So much contrast, but blended in very well.

    Coming from the streets of L.A. I am surrounded in gang members as my streets and even trees are covered in graffiti. But I take walks to the gym several times a week, even in the late hours and I am never bothered. Perhaps they bother you because you have a connection with them already and they know you're easy prey. Don't be easy prey.

    Do you have an MP3 player? Try not to walk directly in front of them. Sometimes its better to give a natural distance from a group of punks like that. Also by having your MP3 player on your ears they often will think you can't hear them, so if they talk shit to you and you just keep walking and ignore them they will mostly think you can't hear them. Also I'd recommend texting your friend, or something like that before you visit.

    You just got to keep a calm aura. If they do confront you, be cool and courteous with them, but not afraid or nervous. They can sense it. I would disagree with the Buddhist method about letting them beat up on you though. While it's good to be cool like a running river, you need to be ready to strike like a riptide if necessary.

    Musashi took on 60 men at once when that whole martial arts school went after him for killing their masters in honorable duels. He was never afraid, and they never had a chance. To win a fight you must have that same mentality. Your opponent must have no chance what so ever to beat you, before the fight has even began. You can beat a crowd of people by advancing towards one person each quickly like lightning and striking them like a comet. That is being the aggressor, you advance to each of them and aim to down them in one blow, and eventually the crowd starts to get smaller and smaller.

    You never want to fight, and as long as you're cool headed, and wise you probably will probably never have to. But at the same time, if I was you I'd be ready for a fight. I totally disagree on taking physical punishment or letting anyone pick on you when it's not justified. Just aim to be cool, but also aim to adapt to the situation.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Vagabond is my favorite manga, see my avatar? I relate with Musashi a lot, he probably fits me better than most people. Like Musashi I have spent most of my life alone. I hardly spent much time in regular schools, and I spent more time training and competing, so Musashi is a character that resonates well with me.

    When Takuan told Musashi at that young age that he was the weakest in the village, what he actually meant was that he did not know how to love. He did not know compassion. Musashi only had himself that is why he was driven to be the most powerful samurai for the time, and I'd say he succeeded. So what Musashi wanted and what Takuan was trying to teach were very different things. That's why its such a great story, a samurai story with Buddhist tones. So much contrast, but blended in very well.

    Coming from the streets of L.A. I am surrounded in gang members as my streets and even trees are covered in graffiti. But I take walks to the gym several times a week, even in the late hours and I am never bothered. Perhaps they bother you because you have a connection with them already and they know you're easy prey. Don't be easy prey.

    Do you have an MP3 player? Try not to walk directly in front of them. Sometimes its better to give a natural distance from a group of punks like that. Also by having your MP3 player on your ears they often will think you can't hear them, so if they talk shit to you and you just keep walking and ignore them they will mostly think you can't hear them. Also I'd recommend texting your friend, or something like that before you visit.

    You just got to keep a calm aura. If they do confront you, be cool and courteous with them, but not afraid or nervous. They can sense it. I would disagree with the Buddhist method about letting them beat up on you though. While it's good to be cool like a running river, you need to be ready to strike like a riptide if necessary.

    Musashi took on 60 men at once when that whole martial arts school went after him for killing their masters in honorable duels. He was never afraid, and they never had a chance. To win a fight you must have that same mentality. Your opponent must have no chance what so ever to beat you, before the fight has even began. You can beat a crowd of people by advancing towards one person each quickly like lightning and striking them like a comet. That is being the aggressor, you advance to each of them and aim to down them in one blow, and eventually the crowd starts to get smaller and smaller.

    You never want to fight, and as long as you're cool headed, and wise you probably will probably never have to. But at the same time, if I was you I'd be ready for a fight. I totally disagree on taking physical punishment or letting anyone pick on you when it's not justified. Just aim to be cool, but also aim to adapt to the situation.


    I guess we have something in common :D. I like...no...I love that manga a lot...I like Takuan's personality and the way he deals with different things.
    About that MP3 palyer, I have one...but the earplugs are broken right now, so I can't use them, but I'll buy some. I know that Musashi beat up the entire Yoshioka school, but that happened when he was ready to fight them. Somehow, I don't feel that ready, but I'm always 'on guard' if something bad happens in my situation. About these punks...I'm not worried about getting beaten up by them in that spot. Most of them don't know how to throw punches, and my Aikido and karate combined are enough to deal with four of them. I am worried that, if a fight starts, those punks will call some tougher punks, who will come in great numbers...
  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    edited August 2010
    One of my martial art teachers would tell us "no if", "just do".
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    One of my martial art teachers would tell us "no if", "just do".

    Sounds more like a Nike comercial.:lol: Anyways, today I had a great surprize : the punks weren't there at my friend's block...sitting on benches...it was peace and quiet :om:. The nasty part of the story is that I found out that these idiots were trying to mug one of my other friends, who happens to 'call up' my old friend when I'm coming late in Bucharest ( yes, I have to do the commute; this friend is one of my basketball team-mate). He was saved by some of his neighbours who were passing by.
  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Yeah those types of dudes they're like gangbangers they have no conscious. They will steal, fight and kill without a second thought. It's not practical to let them have their way with you. I am from L.A., so I see these type of people all the time. Just avoid them as much as possible, and if they confront you be cool and courteous, but if they cross the line be ready to down them and put them in their place. This is what they respect. If you let them beat you up they'd think you were a pussy.

    If you don't work out, I'd suggest you do. Your martial arts training won't be helpful to you in a fight unless you take your body to the limit, both through different weight training, and training of the mind. Also be sure to spar with those in your martial art schools. A chef who does not cook forgets how. A martial artist who has never fought is not a fighter.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Yeah those types of dudes they're like gangbangers they have no conscious. They will steal, fight and kill without a second thought. It's not practical to let them have their way with you. I am from L.A., so I see these type of people all the time. Just avoid them as much as possible, and if they confront you be cool and courteous, but if they cross the line be ready to down them and put them in their place. This is what they respect. If you let them beat you up they'd think you were a pussy.

    If you don't work out, I'd suggest you do. Your martial arts training won't be helpful to you in a fight unless you take your body to the limit, both through different weight training, and training of the mind. Also be sure to spar with those in your martial art schools. A chef who does not cook forgets how. A martial artist who has never fought is not a fighter.

    I fought on several occasions. On the last one .. I was in a 2 vs 1 situation. Two guys, who lived in the same block with my old friend tried to prove how tough they were by wanting not to let me in the block. I passed by them, and the biggest (who is one year older than me) tried to beat me up. Instead, I banged his head against a wall, and proceeded in redecorating his face. His friend ran away, he didn't know what to do.
    You are right with the fact that I should spar with those in my martial art school ;). I have a guy who is nuts, and tries to spar with me every time I set my foot in the aikido dojo.;) I spared with him, and I managed to use my former style to hit him where he was open.

    I heard about L.A. to be one of USA's most dangerous cities...but Bucharest is nothing compared to that. Your gangsters have real weapons, assault rifles, whole deposits of military weapons if you like. In Bucharest, the only thing I should be afraid is the knife...or the katana...or the Airsoft/Defensive guns. Those thugs in Bucharest ( I grew up in a relatively peaceful area, bordering the gypsie ghettos) will intimidate you by their high number. The only thing is that they don't know how to throw punches properly.
  • edited August 2010
    When you are well-developed in your Buddhist practice and know that it is the most important thing in your life, you will have it in your mind at all times. Your mindfulness will strengthen and become more constant. This will bring a serenity that others will notice. People will be less inclined to try to get a rise out of you because they will instinctively sense that what they think they want is not available here. But, this is probably not an overnight solution. Keep studying and practicing and you will change and those around you will see the change. You will lose interest in these people and their foibles.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    hindmost wrote: »
    When you are well-developed in your Buddhist practice and know that it is the most important thing in your life, you will have it in your mind at all times. Your mindfulness will strengthen and become more constant. This will bring a serenity that others will notice. People will be less inclined to try to get a rise out of you because they will instinctively sense that what they think they want is not available here. But, this is probably not an overnight solution. Keep studying and practicing and you will change and those around you will see the change. You will lose interest in these people and their foibles.

    Talking about mindfulness , I observed how I took the control of the situation when I backtrolled that guy, and how I acted and stuff. I know, I have to study a lot...
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    edited August 2010
    mugzy wrote: »
    It may be hard, but not impossible. That's just my advice, as someone who has been in way too many fights and knows how things escalate. The best way to win a fight is to not get personally involved.

    Try to learn to tolerate their insults, or simply be civil and ignore their ignorant harassment. They can't stay on that stoop forever.

    agreed...
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Talking about mindfulness , I observed how I took the control of the situation when I backtrolled that guy, and how I acted and stuff. I know, I have to study a lot...

    by backtrolling u add fuel to the fire...u were playing the game by their rules and the guy lost....

    it could make things worse, depending if he is a bad loser.
  • edited August 2010
    You have already made progress and you will continue to do so, as long as you continue on the path. More and more of your thoughts and reactions will conform with those of the Buddha. The ultimate goal is to reach the point where all of your thoughts and reactions conform with those of the Buddha. Then you will, like the Buddha, *be* the dharma. In the meantime, there are vast treasures to be found, even in what seems to be slow progress.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    by backtrolling u add fuel to the fire...u were playing the game by their rules and the guy lost....

    it could make things worse, depending if he is a bad loser.

    That guy was so dumb that he stood in a basic defensive postion ( basketball) for some minutes waiting for to do something, barely figuring out that I was trying to prove how fool he was.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    hindmost wrote: »
    You have already made progress and you will continue to do so, as long as you continue on the path. More and more of your thoughts and reactions will conform with those of the Buddha. The ultimate goal is to reach the point where all of your thoughts and reactions conform with those of the Buddha. Then you will, like the Buddha, *be* the dharma. In the meantime, there are vast treasures to be found, even in what seems to be slow progress.

    How do I do that ?
  • edited August 2010
    Studying Buddhist scriptures and listening to Buddhist talks a lot means that the ideas from these will be in your head more and more. It just happens by itself, the same as if you listen to the same song over and over. But in this case, you are putting into your mind an alternative way of thinking and reacting to the world. A peaceful, calm, insightful way. You are literally changing the contents of your mind and changing the way your mind works. This is one of the very important ways we progress along the path. You don't have to force anything, just read and listen. It works, though as I said it does not necessarily happen overnight. You have to persist.
  • edited August 2010
    Having said that, once you do this for a while and start to feel the difference in your mind, you will start to feel the joy of a calm mind. Then, you will not need to think about forcing yourself to read and listen, you will want to. You will start to realise that it is true what they say, that having a calm, trained mind is the greatest joy possible.
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    edited August 2010
    That guy was so dumb that he stood in a basic defensive postion ( basketball) for some minutes waiting for to do something, barely figuring out that I was trying to prove how fool he was.

    everybody has a right to be. even dumb throlls.

    try to look at him with compassion.
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    edited August 2010
    hindmost wrote: »
    Having said that, once you do this for a while and start to feel the difference in your mind, you will start to feel the joy of a calm mind. Then, you will not need to think about forcing yourself to read and listen, you will want to. You will start to realise that it is true what they say, that having a calm, trained mind is the greatest joy possible.

    it sure is the greatest joy possible...
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    everybody has a right to be. even dumb throlls.

    try to look at him with compassion.

    Well, in my country compassion will lead nowhere. Or...wait ! what do you mean by looking at him with compassion ?
  • edited August 2010
    Well, in my country compassion will lead nowhere.

    So maybe it's just pointless to try to try to approach it in a Buddhist way at all. Maybe it's just pointless to try to practice Buddhism in your country at all. If compassion will lead nowhere, why not just give up?
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    So maybe it's just pointless to try to try to approach it in a Buddhist way at all. Maybe it's just pointless to try to practice Buddhism in your country at all. If compassion will lead nowhere, why not just give up?

    This is a hard one. Buddhism, in some ways, taught me not to beat them up everytime they threw an insult or a mockery.... Instead, I just exploit the flaws in their speech and such, resulting in a backtrolling...
  • edited August 2010
    Why get caught up in it at all? Buddhism is about not getting caught up in things like that. This "backtrolling" is still hostility and conflict. Why not walk a different way or find a way to just ignore them completely?
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited August 2010
    I managed to ignore them for a long time :D. I enjoy this 'break'. Moreover I found out where to 'hit' them.
  • edited August 2010
    So are you saying you actually really enjoy being engaged by this?
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Looking towards the aggressors with loving kindness may not be the most direct response that occurs but it is the wisest one. When you begin thinking with wisdom, the rest should fall into place.
  • edited August 2010
    Looking towards the aggressors with loving kindness may not be the most direct response that occurs but it is the wisest one. When you begin thinking with wisdom, the rest should fall into place.

    Seconded.
Sign In or Register to comment.