Is it enough?

Fletcher

Is it enough to try to understand the 4 Noble Truths, try to follow the Eightfold Path and the Precepts, do a little meditation and read a little about Buddhism on a daily basis. We take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha but what if we have no physical Sangha? Can we count our family and friends that support us in out practice as our Sangha?
As lay Buddhists what are our chances of enlightenment without being able to commit 100% to Buddhism by joining a monastery and becoming a monk?

ThailandTom

It depends how you look at it and your own personal take on life I guess. I may be wrong in saying this, but I think the buddha went around and suggested to some people that they should live the life of a monk. He told others that they should have a house, have a family and practice buddhism in a lay way. It could come down to mental disposition, for me it is not enough to do what you have stated above. I meditate a little every day, I am aware of the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path, I practice being loving and kind and to be peaceful, but it simply is not enough. The more I delve into the dharma, the more I and leaning towards wanting to take it to the extreme lol

being

Imho it depends on how much effort you put into your practice.
If one gives ones best to practice each moment, I don't see why one couldn't reach enlightenment in ones lifetime.
It's just easier to put in all the effort, if you have nothing else, but a life as a monk/nun.

TreeLuvr87

I think Buddhism is whatever you make it for yourself. I prefer to follow The Middle Path and try to avoid extremes. Just try listening to your instincts. If you feel a strong draw to practice more deeply, then try practicing more deeply for a bit and see if it produces less suffering and a more fulfilling life for you. If not, then go back to moderation. I don't like to think that I'm practicing just to gain Enlightenment, I'm just trying to live my life in a way that produces compassion, acceptance, and love all around me and throughout the world.

hindmost

I think it is best to let your practice unfold naturally. The more you see the benefit, the more inclined you will be to practice.

SherabDorje

This is a general statement and may actually be incorrect, but I believe that in Vajrayana it's possible to live as a householder and still reach something that approximates enlightenment. In Vajrayana, realizing the correct view of emptiness and practicing universal compassion are as close as humans can get, and there are some supposedly highly realized practitioners that have "vajra consorts", as in wives/husbands, and even children. Chogyam Trungpa was supposedly a tulku, and had children. Then again, he died of alcoholic liver disease, but to some he was a highly realized being. His main teacher, Dilgo Khytenste Rinpoche, was a highly revered figure in the Karma Kagyu tradition, and he had a vajra consort. The child that is supposedly his reincarnation has been found.

It depends on what tradition you belong to, I guess. I'm not sure I believe all that I've written above, but many people do.

I have a son that is now 14, and it's crossed my mind to suggest tonsure and ordination to him. Personally, I believe that the future that's coming for my son's generation is really going to suck, so that's why sometimes I think about suggesting ordination to him. He may be better off as a monk given what's coming, even if he lives in a highly engaged way.

So it depends on the tradition and personal belief.

Fletcher

The middle way sounds good to me but does it lead to enlightenment? If it doesn't does it really matter?

PietroPumokin

enlightenment with conviction and dedication is fairly simple but i would say there are different realms of consciousness knowing and enlightenment being we can reach , or something like that, for instance, in theravada i think the emphasis is not so much on buddhahood, that is, gaining foothold into the same spirit of sidhartha gotama's life as a buddha and a spiritual teacher , and largely, a saint, but just to reach nirvana is enough, which doesn't mean "total" ("total") enlightenment. it roughly depends on what sort of vehicle you're in, as we say in boodism, really what vehicle youuuu decide to drive, to reach the other shore.
i would say if you really want to practice as a sincere buddhist, you will find that trying to live the 8 fold path will not be enough, but to live it as much as possible is the true goal, and what the buddha really wished for his disciples lay or monastic, and sincere practice will lead you to achievment of this goal. like everyone's saying you will find your own path. but a little meditation only will definitely not help you far down it. go do some zazen in the middle of the loudest part of your city and consider what your genitals are doing as you see someone that attracts you.

ThailandTom

The middle way is what the buddha himself found and taught. He was a hindu prince who had access to all the best food, all of the women he could want, music whenever and possible substances. He realised this did not make him truly happy so he went to the other extreme and realised that doesn't work either.
In the words of ajahn chah, if you practice buddhism with the intention to becme awoken or enlightened, it won't happen. The path is the goal

Fletcher

Mindfulness of the genials?? lol
Ok there are lay Buddhists that don't believe in karma and rebirth, if enlightenment is unobtainable in this lifetime for them does that mean they can't believe in enlightenment either?

ThailandTom

lol touchy subject, real touchy. I heard yesterday from a monk in the WA society, (not ajahn brahm) and he was also speaking about rebirth and how it is at the very core of buddhism and fundamental.
What should matter is your path, your ideas and your life. Of course you should be compassionate and kind to others, but focus on your path and your mindfulness

PietroPumokin

they can believein WHatever they WAant
enlightenment is the most obtainable thing on earth.
in this world where everything costs money, enlightenment is free as the air you breathe, and that is pretty much all you have to do to get it. enlightenment doesn't have to be a grand thing because it isn't. sometimes, in enlightenment experiences of great release or realization, it is grand, but enlightenment must not always be thought of like that. to not believe in enlightenment would surely be a great delusion!!!!

hindmost

Fletcher wrote: »

The middle way sounds good to me but does it lead to enlightenment? If it doesn't does it really matter?

It leads to freedom from suffering. The extremes do not. That is enough for me.

hindmost

ThailandTom wrote: »

The middle way is what the buddha himself found and taught. He was a hindu prince who had access to all the best food, all of the women he could want, music whenever and possible substances. He realised this did not make him truly happy so he went to the other extreme and realised that doesn't work either.
In the words of ajahn chah, if you practice buddhism with the intention to becme awoken or enlightened, it won't happen. The path is the goal

The Buddha was never a Hindu; Hinduism began about 3 to 4 centuries after his death.

hindmost

Fletcher wrote: »

Mindfulness of the genials?? lol
Ok there are lay Buddhists that don't believe in karma and rebirth, if enlightenment is unobtainable in this lifetime for them does that mean they can't believe in enlightenment either?

Belief is not required.