Krunch! Hit the wall again!

Gecko

:banghead:

I have hit a very unpleasant wall in meditation again. Unlike previous ones, which have felt like an emotional hang-up which requires mettaful observation, this seems to be a twisted, knotty mess of dissonant ideas, views and wants.

To be fair, my meditation practice has been waning quite a bit over the last couple of weeks, though usually a visit to this forum or my other usual practice-pick-me-up sources has seen me through regardless of if I meditate or not. However, the last few times I've sat, I've felt just... numb, I guess, kind of like reaching a point traveling through an unfamiliar city and feeling like you've had enough trying to navigate the streets. Fed-up, lost, disenchanted even.

The meditation resonates the feeling I have in my life at the moment - all the dissonant ideas are essentially stemming from a cross-roads of life choices; my practice heavily conflicts with my wants and likes, the responsibilities that I have are conflicting with my practice - not to mention the expectations (reasonable or not) that are surrounding me are clamouring for their share of the spotlight too.

Previously, my meditations have stuffed around with my sense of self, and hinted at the delusional nature of "I" and teasing me with glimpses of a stillness outside of the karmic chaos of samsara.

Essentially, there's a strong part of me which is quite varied that is just plain sick of it all - Buddhism, not-Buddhism, hiding from life, facing life. If I try and sit with it - I just get walloped in the metaphysical face for the effort, and end up even more sore and confused! :crazy:


Apart from just ranting about it (which does feel a little better) - any suggestions, ideas or kicks-up-the-butt? :rolleyes:

Metta,
Gecko.

fivebells

Sounds like you're getting to some really important stuff. Keep going! When you can learn to relax in the midst of those metaphysical "face wallops", you'll see the whole mess much more clearly. Try to ease into it a little at a time so that you stay relaxed. If you start getting sore and confused, back way off, and start easing into it at a much lower level than you know you'll be able to handle.

Simonthepilgrim

First of all, Gecko, my heart goes out to you. You describe a horrible 'place', made worse by the congruence between inner and outer worlds. Thank you for trusting that you might find something valuable here.

This is one time when being somewhat older in practice decades has helped me, when everything has dried up and meditation just seems to make things worse but giving up meditation seems unsatisfactory. I remember the first time I noticed it - it may have been the first time ever but my memory, oy veh! I was on the Long Retreat as part of my noviciate and Bang! I was suddenly in turmoil. I couldn't do anything right in my jobs around the house and kept getting into trouble with the Assistant Novice Master. Our daily three hours of mediation and a totally silent regime was something I had been yearning for and now? It was crap! Nothing! Nada! Zip! And worse than that, a ringing in my ears like the silence was an enemy too (I have had tinnitus ever since).

My Novice Master though I was being over-dramatic (and I may have been - I have always tended to exaggerate) and gave me scripture to read. After about ten days, hanging on by ever-shortening fingernails, it suddenly lifted. There weren't whistles and bells, angels or devas. I just woke up one morning and it was gone. I was out of the tunnel. I had survived but I had no idea how. It took me time and wise counsel to understand that, somehow, somewhere, in some strange way, the awfulness had been the vital catalyst, the Philosopher's Stone (as Herbert has it) which transformed uncertainty into knowledge. In that particular case it concerned my monastic vocation and, although I have sometimes been nostalgic for the routine and the silence, I have understood that I am not equipped for that particular path.

Since then, 'desert' times have come and gone. As time has gone on, 'flat' times predominate. Nothing to report. Same as yesterday. But, from time to time,a patch of real joy or choppy water. It's the way life is. It would be surprising if meditation did not provide us with a clearer view, a more acute ear - not always comfortable. Keine Rosen ohne Dornen.

rachMiel

Gecko wrote: »

Essentially, there's a strong part of me which is quite varied that is just plain sick of it all - Buddhism, not-Buddhism, hiding from life, facing life.

"sick of it all" is a great place to be, a perfect place for growth! it's one part dukkha (suffering) and one part anicca (impermanence). a fabulous combo for taking another step or two towards awakening!

seeker242

I have hit a very unpleasant wall in meditation again. Unlike previous ones, which have felt like an emotional hang-up which requires mettaful observation, this seems to be a twisted, knotty mess of dissonant ideas, views and wants.

Perhaps because you expect practice to be pleasant? Teachers in my school say "Don't make expectations! Then, whatever appears, no problem!"

RichardH

Just to chime in here.... At such times it can be helpful just to remind yourself that there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are feeling and thinking. "This is my state of being right now, this is what's going on, this is what it feels like now, this is how it is." Include how you are honestly feeling and thinking , right now, completely, at once. ....Then maybe you notice just a little shift that leaves your thoughts and feeling as they are, within a bigger space.

Awareness is like space, nothing can disturb or stain it, whether it's a butterfly going by or a bomb going off. That basic space is there already and it does not require effort to realize, just the weightless recognition of "this is how it is right now"

Jeffrey

This is interesting I had just read something about the distinction between using conceptual mind to manipulate a situations. Versus on the other hand a deeper response of our sensitivity to sense when something is not working and to long and even 'nudge' us back on course.

Its a paradox something lifts or happens. We get out of the tunnel. But its interesting to see what kind of efforts or is it non-effort are truly effective.

I hope you feel better. I wish I could be more helpful and see this problem more clearly.

Gecko

Thank you all very much for the advice, grounding-personal-experiences and well-wishing - it's brightened my day considerably! It's quite a large personal issue, so I'm not going to jump on it and try to wrestle it down anymore

seeker242 and Richard - your advice certainly feels like a well-timed bucket of cool water. I've definitely carried some meta-expectations into the situation which have just made the waters even muddier!

I'll come back to reabsorb the replies here a few times, I think. When sitting with it all, it feels quite urgent - kind of like a show-stopper event that is affecting my life 'outside' meditation. This is what makes it hard - I feel that I don't have the time or 'right' to work through this issue, as it is affecting my work/life efforts. <- But, hey, lookkit all those other expectations and attachments! :tonguec:

To massacre the grammatical rules of the German language in specific response to Simon's reply (and all the others' too!) - Keine Dornen ohne Rosen!

treederwright

Mark epstien in his book Thoughts without the thinker talks about this kind of experience in meditation. he says to the effect that : once the meditator becomes still enough there is a scream which he calls the "primal Scream" this is what it sounds like your having. When the primal scream occurs its important to just let it scream its a fundemental frusturation that is unbearable. I remember when i was doing zazen for like 1 hr a day for 2 weeks i ran into the most unberable pain internally so much so i started crying profusely. When i returned to the practice every time i would just cry , like 10 min into the breathing meditation. I would count 1-10 over and over and over. This is how the "primal scream" partly manifested itself in my expereince. It was really difficult.Though healing. if you'd like Epstien has some great things to say for westerners trying to adapt eastern techniques to ones psychology. I really would reccommend some of his books.

Good Luck.

fivebells

Epstein's early books (like Thoughts) are really good, and yes, when you get to the "scream," you know you're on the right track.

rachMiel

treederwright wrote: »

Mark epstien in his book Thoughts without the thinker talks about this kind of experience in meditation. he says to the effect that : once the meditator becomes still enough there is a scream which he calls the "primal Scream" this is what it sounds like your having. When the primal scream occurs its important to just let it scream its a fundemental frusturation that is unbearable.

fascinating! i've been experiencing this exact thing for a while in my meditation. i've even been thinking of it as a "primal scream" (having done some primal-scream-ish therapy way back when). often it's as you describe: an expression of deep unbearable frustration. sometimes it's what i'd call a "scream of life, of intense being." during retreat recently i was a bit concerned i might start screaming out loud! (didn't happen.)

thanks for sharing this. :-)

treederwright

its kinda related to basic self inquiry. Because the self is transient this scream is a psychological defense mechanisim, kinda like defiance of the mind to accept its transiency. I really like Epstein.

Glad to help

huale768

he says to the effect that : once the meditator becomes still enough there is a scream which he calls the "primal Scream" this is what it sounds like your having. When the primal scream occurs its important to just let it scream its a fundemental frusturation that is unbearable. I remember when i was doing zazen for like 1 hr a day for 2 weeks i ran into the most unberable pain internally so much so i started crying profusely. When i returned to the practice every time i would just cry , like 10 min into the breathing meditation. I would count 1-10 over and over and over. This is how the "primal scream" partly manifested itself in my expereince. It was really difficult.Though healing. if you'd like Epstien has some great things to say for westerners trying to adapt eastern techniques to ones psychology. I really would reccommend some of his books.


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Gecko

(Huale - did you accidentally lose your original post following your quote of treederwright? :S)

I've been avoiding meditation the last week, actually, and my practice has dropped off the wagon too, unfortunately. I'm think I'm just petrified of confronting the electrical-storm aspects of my mind - even if I'm not trying to fight it! :screwy:

I can get where you're coming from with Epstein's primal scream allegory. But my experience doesn't feel like it really meets that. I've head internally raging screams during mediation resulting from sudden glimpses of how my actions, thoughts and karmic habits affect my being (and in turn further actions/thoughts, etc), and screams of both natures of "f#ck off!" or "you'd better listen to me, or...!" - but nothing that seems to be pure ego defensiveness

My ego certainly makes efforts to defend its illusory nature, but this seems (now, after a bit of self-reflection and talk with some other people) to be more of a ridiculously major nature of angry, hulk-proportion cognitive dissonance.


Anyway, I'm off to a retreat this weekend and another two weeks after that, upon recommendation. So, hopefully (mindful practice and effort type of hope), my practice and efforts will improve again. I also haven't been doing kung fu practice or attending formal classes for a while - so it's also a case of cabin fever!

I'll let you all know if I've made any progress (or been driven stark raving mad - in which case my post will be made via indecipherable scrawl on straight-jacket linen tied to a bird's leg!)