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Nothing is Wasted, not even Suffering
I'm coming into this thread at a stage in my life where I'm trying to keep an open mind about everything that happens. It's one of my recent (past 2 years) discoveries that not everything in life can be easily identified as positive or negative. What I have learned to try to do, though not always easy, is to see everything that happens regarding the circumstance of my life for the message it brings that helps me along on my spiritual journey, which ultimately, I think, is to make me a mature, and mindful, human being, not easily given to the sways of forces beyond my control. I don't know if this is what Buddha was talking about when he said that the Middle Way was to avoid seeing anything as "good" or "bad", or to avoid taking any extreme perspective or action. I don't know much of anything, really. I just know that if something happens in my life that I don't understand, or even further, that I don't like, often, if I allow myself, I can come to realize that whatever that is, it has some beneficial use towards the purpose of my growth.
So sometimes I try to think that absolutely EVERYTHING that happens in this world, no matter what label we put on it (good or evil) has some part to play in a greater purpose, which ultimately is about peaceful spiritual unity, and is therefore, good. So I try to apply that grand understanding to my own small life and hope to discover to some degree, through daily practice of objective awareness exercises, that everything I come up against, everything I see, everything I feel, all of it, is not wasted, but is part of my overall education. Which is good.
I sense contradiction within my own message, but am seeking others to help me clarify this path I am on. I seek peace in my life and have finally started to realize that all the turmoil and suffering was primarily a result of my own small and inflexible perspective.
The 8-Fold Path teaches us to transcend suffering, but I wonder, is suffering in fact extremely useful, or better yet, necessary?
So sometimes I try to think that absolutely EVERYTHING that happens in this world, no matter what label we put on it (good or evil) has some part to play in a greater purpose, which ultimately is about peaceful spiritual unity, and is therefore, good. So I try to apply that grand understanding to my own small life and hope to discover to some degree, through daily practice of objective awareness exercises, that everything I come up against, everything I see, everything I feel, all of it, is not wasted, but is part of my overall education. Which is good.
I sense contradiction within my own message, but am seeking others to help me clarify this path I am on. I seek peace in my life and have finally started to realize that all the turmoil and suffering was primarily a result of my own small and inflexible perspective.
The 8-Fold Path teaches us to transcend suffering, but I wonder, is suffering in fact extremely useful, or better yet, necessary?
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Comments
Neither.
It is what it is.
Your perception.
Pain is part of life, suffering is optional.
How you take it, is up to you.
Once you realise that suffering can be transcended without having to analyse it or work on it, you'll get it.
kinda like i've been thinking. nothing is wasted. especially the coincidences. meaning exists everywhere (especially in suffering), but only if we expect it.
i know what you mean about getting something when you need it. you have to be open for that though, and further more, willing to allow it to influence you into some sort of action. i see a lot of stuff come and go like this, and while I acknowledge it, just continue on my way without any adjustment. that leaves me with the feeling that I forgot to do something (like turn off the iron), which is nagging and unsatisfying
While I agree that what you state is the ultimate goal, it sounds very idealistic for the average seeker. We all have attachments to ideas about how we would like to see things go in our lives, and when they don't pan out that way, we suffer. Unless we are fully enlightened, suffering is something we are going to have to deal with. But that suffering serves to help put us on the path, if we allow it, ie.. the growth is not so much in the avoidance of the suffering, but rather in our reaction to it, and eventually in how quickly that reaction transpires (as Enlightened beings, the reaction would be automatic, or unnecessary due to lack of attachment in the first place). The Buddha suffered (spiritually) a great deal in his life prior to Enlightenment, before and after he started seeking the Truth. Surely it was a great motivator for him as well. And perhaps a necessary one? Would he have found Enlightenment if his life circumstances were not what they were?
Suffering is a sign that you're out of touch with the truth. Suffering is given to you that you might open your eyes to the truth, that you might understand that there's falsehood somewhere, just as physical pain is given to you so you will understand that there is disease or illness somewhere. Suffering points out that there is falsehood somewhere. Suffering occurs when you clash with reality. When your illusions clash with reality when your falsehoods clash with the truth, then you have suffering. Otherwise there is no suffering.
-Anthony de Mello
I am having some difficulty with this as well, and had to search the forum for Suffering and Attachment just get better insight.
Recently, I went to a meditation about Death. The teacher told us that we can have no attachments, and so death can't come as a shock to us, as we are not meant to be attached anyway. She said that our goal is to prepare for our next life, and there is no use in attaching ourselves to others if we just have to let them go. I know that everyone dies, non of escape death, but I found a feeling of uncomfortableness while trying to wrap my mind around her statement. While I understand we should not attach ourselves to material items, or attach ourselves too much to people because we can never really "hold on" to them..and when we move on to our next life, they don't come with us, but are we not meant to have relationships? Are we not meant to love, and suffer in that aspect? Don't we learn from these things when we feel how others touch our lives? It always comes as a shock when someone leaves their life, not because I don't remember that we all die, but because I feel sadness. I mourn, but i always remember that my life is going on, and I continue to live without them, just as my loved ones will live without me when I pass.
If anyone can explain this "attachment" deal to me, i'd greatly appreciate it.
i don't know about the proper dogmatic perspective, but it sounds like you are trying to make sense of the same thing I am. One of the recent struggles I've had with Buddhism (and prior with Christianity) is the all or nothing aspect of the discussions. In some places I read about the idea of giving up all attachments, thus being liberated from suffering due to dissappointment, or dissatisfaction, or whatever... then I also read that the Buddha says the appearance of a Buddha is a rare thing. So I take that to mean that Enlightenment, while an admirable thing to strive for, is not exactly a realistic expectation, and in fact, is an attachment in itself. I think what you are asking is what I am trying to find out, how can I apply the principles of Buddhism to my very real life, attachments and all? I hold no delusion that I will become enlightened, free from attachment and suffering, in this life time. But I do want to learn how to live peacefully, without letting myself become easily swayed by external circumstances that are beyond my control. So where that leaves me is, accepting that I will have attachments, and thus suffering, and rather than trying to think I can overcome them, instead, learn from the experience, and hope that because of this accumulated wisdom, maybe the next time I face a situation that doesn't necessarily go my way, I will handle it with a little bit more dignity than the last time.
Mahayana Buddhism, from what I understand, endeavors to bring Buddhism down to a level that we can apply it to our everyday lives. How? I don't know yet. There is so much information that it can be overwhelming at times. The only basic thing I know, attachments or not, is that we have to heighten our objective awareness of the circumstances of our lives through meditative activity (not just sitting), on a daily basis. By seeing things more objectively we can maybe, just maybe, transcend a little bit of the suffering that comes along with our disappointment and dissatisfaction.
I heard a Dharma talk recently and the guy speaking spoke about attachments. Some attachments are good, such as the attachment to learn the Dharma.
But I think your main problem sounds like the attachment to people we love and you believe you've been told we have to detach from them. Well, from what I remember, the guy said that to not be attached to them didn't mean we don't love them; it's more about loving them in the correct way.
I remember an example he gave was something like this:
Imagine you have a daughter, and YOU want her to go to university, study hard, and become an English teacher, because YOU think that this would be best for her.
However, she may want to study music, and become a rock legend; somewhat different to what YOU want her to be.
Well, not being attached to your daughter in the wrong way, by making her do what YOU think is best, would mean you would let your daughter live her own life, in her own way, in the way that suits her; not YOU.
Does that make sense?
Non attachment doesn't mean you don't form relationships. One enjoys another's company while it lasts but when separation inevitably occur, of course there ill be sadness but it does not come as a shock as one has completely accepted that all things change. This perception of impermanence is the key.
The more one is attached, the greater the suffering. Compare the loss of one's pen to loss of one's home to loss of one's limb or loved ones.
In fact one becomes more loving and appreciative by being aware that death can come at any moment and no one can escape.
A Meditation on Death
Like the flame blown out by the wind,
This life of ours is headed for destruction.
Seeing the cycle of birth and death in all things
Mindfulness of death is a skill we need to use.
Just as people who have achieved great wealth and fame
Must surely fall in death.
This thing called death will not leave me behind;
Death is always beckoning me to follow.
Death is the true companion of birth
And never far behind,
Searching for an opening
Like a samurai in battle.
It's course cannot be changed
This life we call our own,
Is rushing to its end
Like the sun moving form east to west.
Death takes those from us who are great in strength and wisdom,
No need to speak of one like me.
Because this life of mine lacks in so many ways
I die in every moment with little chance of a good rebirth.
Our life is filled with so much uncertainty
Its length cannot be known.
It is difficult just to stay alive, each day
Filled with the fear and anguish of the death about to come.
There is no chance that life shall not end in death.
Having reached old age what can be next,
Death is part of our true nature.
As the nature of fruit is to fall when ripe.
Just as a potters jar must break and turn to dust
So to these bones of ours will one day break and end the same way.
The young, the old, the foolish and the wise,
The hand of death is always open;
The end is known for sure.
Impermanent is all conditioned things,
All things rise and fall away,
Conditions give us birth,
Conditions give us death.
This body and mind of ours, will soon be lying on the ground
Like a useless piece of drift wood, washed upon the shore.
Our consciousness will vanish, the mind will not be there,
Just like a bubble bursting on the water, turning into air.
We came into this world without an invitation, and
We don't need to ask permission when its time for us to leave.
We rise to birth that always ends in death;
we come just as we go.
Does the candle shed a tear when the flame goes out?
Don't be sad, be mindful.
Suffering is created by human ego.
are we sure that we know what suffering (dukka) is?
is it the superficial suffering that we experiences at day today?
is there any hidden deep meaning to the concept 'suffering (dukka)'?
in Buddha's Teaching it says, five clinging aggregates are suffering (panccaupadanaskanda dukka)
do we know what five aggregates are?
do we know what form is?
whatfeeling is ?
what perception is ?
what volitional activities are?
what consciousness is?
if not
we have to grasp the meaning of five aggregates first
then
we can see whether clinging to them but can not keep them make us suffer or not
and then
we will know what we have to do
or
how important that we know suffering to get rid of suffering
This is well explained, thank you.