Contrary values

JetsFan366

I'm continually amazed as I learn more about mindfulness and Buddhism how contrary to american/capitalist/competitive values it is. The latest one is the acceptance of suffering. I can remember hearing all the time as a kid - "You can be anything you want to be". That saying used to rankle me but I wasn't quite sure why. I guess it's because if you don't end up what you wanted to be, or if you haven't reached all your goals, the implication is that it's your fault. Of course it has a kernel of wisdom in it, to diligently try to accomplish worthy goals. But it certainly doesn't seem to be advocating acceptance. There certainly don't seem to be many voices crying out to be content with your lot in life in America.

Chrysalid

twaitsfan wrote: »

There certainly don't seem to be many voices crying out to be content with your lot in life in America.

Consumerism would certainly find it difficult to survive in an environment where everybody wanted what they had and didn't want what they didn't have.

dennis60

twaitsfan wrote " There certainly don't seem to be many voices crying out to be content with your lot in life in America."
Great statement, and it better be many more voices crying this statement out in America! Only the privileged are living the "American dream". The other 90% are struggling big time just to make ends meet. You have come up with very wise insight in learning to be non-materialistic. There is really no need to have a lot of possessions. And almost always higher education is just training you to work for a corporation of some kind. Even the medical students are ending up in HMO's. As the Buddha said "Be a lamp unto yourself". Take care of your inner mind and body, then you will find real contentment. The rat race to make money in America is getting worse and harder to accomplish. Glad to hear that you are choosing the road less traveled!

JetsFan366

Thanks Dennis. I think that the wisdom of this statement applies not only to 'stuff' but also career, academic life, social life, etc. There is a line between giving things a good try, and killing yourself to reach some goal that isn't really worth the sacrifice to get there. I look at people who are at the top of their game - actors, athletes, CEO's - and they don't appear to be happier than the rest of us. Those are people who seem to have all that they desire, yet they still aren't happy.

Learning to walk that line is wisdom, and it's no easy task. Especially when you have such strong forces pushing you on either side.

shenpennangwa

twaitsfan wrote: »

I'm continually amazed as I learn more about mindfulness and Buddhism how contrary to american/capitalist/competitive values it is. The latest one is the acceptance of suffering.

Buddhism is about "accepting" suffering?
Thats not what I heard.

JetsFan366

Shenpen - then what did you hear? Obviously you're being sarcastic, but being in the newbie's forum I would've accepted a slightly more helpful and less smarmy reply.

I'm probably making a semantic mistake between unpleasant emotions and 'suffering'. If I am feeling sad, shouldn't I turn towards my sadness and feel it and let it pass? Or should I fight against it, look for the root of the problem and do everything I can to not feel that way again. The latter is a type-1 go-getter American way of looking at things and what I was taught (probably more implicitly than explicitly)

That's what I meant by acceptance.

ThailandTom

It is one reason among many why I left the UK 6 months ago to live in thailand because western life really in my opinion does not cut the mustard so to speak. Asia is not a haven, but it certainly has different views and opinions on life. Although, the dark hand of capitalism and superficial bullshit is reaching the shores of thailand. You can see it in the younger generations, they want all the latest fashion and to be like americans, or they want their super cool new smart fone or a flash sports car. It really does shock me a little because it is affecting their culture and country a great deal. I am afraid that the great wheel of capitalism is growing ever faster and traveling further distances DOWN WITH CORPORATE PIGS!

shenpennangwa

twaitsfan wrote: »

Shenpen - then what did you hear? Obviously you're being sarcastic, but being in the newbie's forum I would've accepted a slightly more helpful and less smarmy reply.

I'm probably making a semantic mistake between unpleasant emotions and 'suffering'. If I am feeling sad, shouldn't I turn towards my sadness and feel it and let it pass? Or should I fight against it, look for the root of the problem and do everything I can to not feel that way again. The latter is a type-1 go-getter American way of looking at things and what I was taught (probably more implicitly than explicitly)

That's what I meant by acceptance.

My response was intended to create discussion. As smarmy and sarcastic as it may have been.
If you ask me, Buddhism is much more "American" than we think.
The idea of accepting suffering runs contrary to the core of Buddhism's revolutionary and profoundly effective and active methods IMO.
We recognize suffering and its causes and then directly apply the methods that exhaust it.
We dont accept suffering, we exhaust it for ourselves and others.
Its a very radical and direct approach. Not a passive acceptance.

Tosh

Twaitsfan,

I think like me, you misunderstand the Buddhist use of the word 'suffering'. I used to think that 'suffering' was when you were in physical pain, or starving, or something, but in the instance in this post, suffering is wanting. We humans constantly want something, a new house, a bigger house, two houses, a house by the sea; we think that once we reach a certain level of material wealth we'll be happy, but that's never the case because we keep on wanting more and more.

This is a type of suffering. Buddhism (and I'm far from being any expert) teaches you what suffering actually is, the causes of it, and shows the path that will remove the suffering, which is very different from accepting suffering.

Also, with regards to 'wanting' or 'grasping' this idea of suffering is not exclusive to Buddhism and you'll find it in many other religions/philosophies. The Roman philosopher Seneca said that a straw roof will keep out the rain just as well as a roof made of gold.

Paulclem

twaitsfan wrote: »

Thanks Dennis. I think that the wisdom of this statement applies not only to 'stuff' but also career, academic life, social life, etc. There is a line between giving things a good try, and killing yourself to reach some goal that isn't really worth the sacrifice to get there. I look at people who are at the top of their game - actors, athletes, CEO's - and they don't appear to be happier than the rest of us. Those are people who seem to have all that they desire, yet they still aren't happy.

Learning to walk that line is wisdom, and it's no easy task. Especially when you have such strong forces pushing you on either side.

At some point people make their choices - often after being burned by the competitive nature of industry. There are many who work in the service sectors - teachers, nurses, auxiliaries, paramedics, police etc who are paid mediocre wages for really important work - but the point is they accept this as it's not just for the money. I'm in the UK, but I'm presuming that it is the same in the US and many other countries. I find liking my job and job satisfaction make up for not getting a high powered wage.