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Herbal & Food supplements

federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
edited November 2005 in General Banter
These are three links I have found relating to the ban or restricted use of supplements in the UK/Europe. Does anyone have a definitive assessment of the current situation?
What gives, then, Folks?

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/articles/foodsup.html

http://omega.twoday.net/stories/961214/

http://www.jcrows.com/HealthSupplementsRIP.html

Comments

  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Fed, Here in the US, they are trying the same thing. Sorry I didn't see your post until after I had posted in the Vegan Area, You or Brian can move it if you like.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2005
    ....I'd love to move it (thank you!) but my toolbar don't wanna work....!!
  • twobitbobtwobitbob
    edited October 2005
    A lot of people don't seem to realise that taking too many supplements can be harmful to health. For example, ridiculously high amounts of vitamin C increase the risk of cancer. Also if you regularly take high doses of vitamin C daily then miss a few days you can get withdrawal symptoms as the body is used to high intake.

    Having said that the EU is always a bit over-zealous with health. Surely just educating people that the body works by balancing things and munching too many of anything is gonna be bad (you can OD on water if you try hard enough). And if they're so worried about our health why not ban tobacco and alcohol which has been proved to kill millions?

    Isn't it about informed, free choice?
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    twobitbob wrote:

    And if they're so worried about our health why not ban tobacco and alcohol which has been proved to kill millions?

    I say that ALL THE TIME!
  • twobitbobtwobitbob
    edited October 2005
    The reasoning never worked for me.

    You ban cocaine because it kills

    You ban drink driving because it kills

    You keep tobacco legal... because it kills?

    Something don't add up.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    Don't forget the banning of marijuana! You ban that, but not alcohol or tobacco? Doesn't make sense to me either! Oh, but let's go ahead and ban herbal supplements that are healthy. Yes, that makes complete sense!
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    Wait, I just thought of something...does this mean all of the herbal tea I drink will be banned as well? That would make me so sad! I have to say, I am pretty attached to my herbal teas. Right now I am drinking one to help with my sinus infection and it is delicious!
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamama, Proably. But I do have seeds for alot of the herbally teas. And I usually make my own blends. Like alittle Chamomile witha few sprigs of Stevia. Makes a great bedtime tea.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    THe only thing I worry about is if they outlaw Herbal Supplements, What will it do to those of us who grow them?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2005
    There will be nothing stopping you from growing them and using them yourself, but you won't be able to offer them to others commercially or in any way that could be construed to be profitable (at bazaars, fêtes, fairs, etc....)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2005
    I love your optimism, Fede. They've stopped us growing marijuana!

    And the spread of Salem-Christianity will probably criminalise all herbalism as diabolical.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2005
    Yes but 'marijuana' sounds wicked.... 'Clary sage' and 'Comfrey ' sound so warm and kind.....:crazy:
  • twobitbobtwobitbob
    edited October 2005
    Simonthepilgrim wrote:
    I love your optimism, Fede. They've stopped us growing marijuana!


    They,ve tried to stop us growing marijuana but there's still tons of the stuff around. They should learn from the prohibition of alcohol in America that banning stuff just drives it underground. I guess it'll be the same for supplements.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2005
    twobitbob wrote:
    They,ve tried to stop us growing marijuana but there's still tons of the stuff around. They should learn from the prohibition of alcohol in America that banning stuff just drives it underground.

    Sound like a poetic cue for a song....!
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    I guess I better start stocking up! :) I suppose I could make all of the herbal teas that I drink - I have made some in the past. Heck, they would probably even taste better if I made them myself!
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamama, Yep they do taste better. Not only because the ingredients are fresher, but because you grew them yourself. Now if only my coffee plants that I ordered would hurry up and arrive.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    MoonLgt - what kinds of teas do you make? A lot of the teas I drink have licorice root in them - is that something I can grow in the midwest?
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2005
    YogaMama wrote:
    MoonLgt - what kinds of teas do you make? A lot of the teas I drink have licorice root in them - is that something I can grow in the midwest?

    This is about Glycyrrhiza glabra European Liquorice:

    The cultivation of Liquorice is easy, sure and profitable and, if properly conducted, conducive to the betterment of the soil.
    On account of the depth to which the root strikes when the plant has room to flourish, the soil should have a good staple of mould 2 or 3 feet in depth and be manured if necessary.
    The planting season is either October, or February and March; the latter is preferred. The plants are procured from old plantations, being waste from the harvesting process, consisting of those side roots or runners which have eyes or buds, cut into sections about 6 inches long. They are dibbled in, in rows 3 or 4 feet apart, about 4 inches underneath the surface and about 18 inches apart in the rows. In the autumn, the ground is dressed with farmyard manure, about 40 tons to the acre.
    During the first two years the growth is slight, the plants not rising above a foot the first season, and in Calabria the intervening space is generally utilized for the production of potatoes, cabbages and similar crops. The soil being heavily fertilized for the production of Liquorice, these crops are usually very luxuriant. After the second year, the growing Liquorice plants cover the entire soil to the exclusion of other growth.


    There is an American plant, Glycyrrhiza lepidota, which appears to grow everywhere on Turtle Island and is also easy to grow.




    I have grown liquorice and it is true that you do not get a usable crop until the third year.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Oysio Brother Simon, you are correct. As to whether or not it can be grown in YogaMama's neck of the woods so to speak. Yes.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    As for the kind of teas I grow, Lets see, Chamomile, Mints ( All different kinds) Rose Hip with a touch of raspberry. Oh the usual I guess.;)
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    Looks like I will have to hold off on growing any licorice...we do not plan on staying in the house we are in right now for mroe than two more years. In fact, we plan to move ot Austin, Texas, so gorwing things there will be much easier than in the midwest. Thanks for the information, Simon and MoonLgt.

    MoonLgt - do you sell or trade any of your seeds? Of not, where did you originally get your seeds?
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2005
    A camomile lawn is a real joy - and useful, too, although it is best to use the non-flowering variety for the lawn. BTW, the lawns at Buckingham Palace on which they hold the garden parties are camomile.
  • TraceyLinMillerTraceyLinMiller
    edited October 2005
    Oh this as usual is more nonsense, look behind the curtain and I bet you find pharmacuetical funding. Pharmacuetical companies are plying us with drugs with so many side effects we succumb from disturbances that have nothing to do with our original problem. But I won't waste my time on that rhetoric. What I do know is that we need suppluments as badly as we need food. WHY? think about what we, as a race have done to our food, air and water. The radiation alone, which no one ever speaks of, premeates everything. wonder if there is a connection to the massive cancer increases around the world. We need herbs, supplements, etc to help us to prevent the inevitable damage from taking place without these things. Naturopathic, homeopathic, etc, are cause oriented whereas medical science is effect oriented. It is our responsibility to take control of our health before things happen (as i sit here puffing away on another ciggy) not keep it nurtured and in place after we become ill. ok this is a soapbox topic for me, so i'll quit before it becomes a 292 page diatribe on the benefits of using herbs and supplements.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2005
    Tracey, I don't know if you read this thread from the beginning, but it began by highlighting European legislation against supplements. Your point is exactly mine too....! :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2005
    Simonthepilgrim wrote:
    BTW, the lawns at Buckingham Palace on which they hold the garden parties are camomile.

    Yes, this is why Her Majesty's guests are constantly passing out.... swooooon! snoooooze!!:D
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamama, I usually Trade or buy my seed. A really good place to get some of the seed is
    http://www.seedman.com/herbtea.htm
    or here
    http://www.raingardens.com/seedpage/herbtea.htm

    Let me know when you are ready, And I'll let you know what seed I have.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    Thanks, MoonLgt! Other than growing a bit of lavendar and basil, I am really new to this. Can you recommend a few good herbs to start off with? That can be grown in the midwest? My plan for Spring is to have a nice herb garden, a vegetable garden and a butterfly garden.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamama, I started out with The Herbs I used most to cook with. Things Like Absil next to my tomatoes, Thyme, Oregano, Dill Etc. Most herbs can grow just about any where considering they like poor soil and are drought tolerant. THe Herbal Teas I strated with was Camomile and Mint. Then my Grandmma gave me a cup of rosehip tea. and I've been hooked every since.

    So I guess my best suggestion is just to start out with the ones you use the most.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2005
    As always, there is lots of information about herbs, flowers, teas, and so on, on the Net:
    http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_herbs/article/0,1785,HGTV_3595_2045629,00.html

    But the best way to learn about what to use where you live, is to seek out a person native to the area who still makes their own. They will tell you what does well, what to use for what effect and so on. The Earth gives her gifts generously to those who treat her with respect: find a grandmother or a grandfather.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    Thanks again, Simon and MoonLgt. Just recently, my husband stopped at an old house by our house because they had a sign out front saying they were selling these barrels, and we wanted one for our compost. My husband discovered an ederly man living there and ended up talking to him for hours about growing heirloom tomatoes. I bet I could go back to him for advice.

    Anyways...we did grow lemon basil and sweet basil this year and really enjoyed it. So did our Praying Mantis and all of the bees! :) So we still have seeds from that for next year. I am going to do some research to figure out what other herbs to grow in my area. I just can't wait for Spring to return!
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    MoonLgt - do you grow any heirloom tomatoes?
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Well Said Brother Simon. Although sometimes finding a grandmother or grandfather can be difficult. But then nothing in life is easy.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamam, Oh you betcha. I grow both Hybrids and Heirlooms as well as have several wild varities now.. LOL
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    What heirlooms have you grown? This year, we had Neves Azorean Red and they are fantastic! How you ever had Sungolds? I told my husband he had to plant at least 2-3 of those plants next year. Me and my daughter couldn't get enough of them. We also had Big Beef's and one other kind...I will have to ask my husband what else we had.

    My husband did a lot of seed trading last month (everyone wanted our Neves) so we plan on having about 6 different heirloom plants in our garden next Spring.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    So far this year I have grown Cherokee ( Which is an Heirloom) Romas, Yellow Pear and the little red Grape tomaotes. I say so far because they are not finished yet, I just put the plastic around them to keep the temps up. I also grow peas and Beans and of course corn, both Sugar and popcorn.

    I just finished adding a small greenhouse behind my house to help extend the season here.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    We have some Cherokee for next year. If you are interested in trying the Sungolds, I can check with my husband to see if he has any seeds that I could send to you.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    That would be cool. I'll check to see what I have and let you know.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    My husband told me last night that he has maybe over 50 different varieties of heirloom tomato seeds for next year, so if you are interested in anything, let me know and I will check to see if he has it.

    I forgot to ask you...which type of Cherokee are you growing? Have you had Chocolate Cherokee? Those are great.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamama, Yep thats the one I grow. Just love it for tomatoe sandwiches. I have some Lemon Cukes if you would like? they are not only great for table eating but also for making pickles.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    Those sound delicious! I LOVE cucumbers. When I was little, I used to eat them like candy. Sure, I would take you up on that offer. What can I send you in return? Would you like the Sungold seeds, or something else?
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2005
    I don't know if Turtle Island tomatoes and cucumbers are like English ones. Ours don't grow well together, in line of sight of each other. My mother-in-law, a fine gardener and wonderful cook as well as a lovely person, grew both in her greenhouse. She would always hang a curtain between the tomatoes and the cucumbers.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Hi Yogamama And Simon,
    Sorry I didn't get back to you sonner. I have been sort of preparing for an all hollows eve celebration some friends of mine invited me to share in.

    While it is true that tomatoes and Cucmbers do not get along. Both are heavy feeders and if planted together will soon deplete the soil of alot of nutrients. They also share some of the same ills, such as Mosaic Virus and Blith (Sp?). I can see why she put a curtain up between them.

    But their are ways to help out with this, I usually plant a good crop of peas where I had heavy feeders at, as peas add back nutrients back into the soil. Mostly Nitrogen.

    Yogamama, Sunglod Seeds would be great! I have a few Lemon Cucmber and other seeds, such as peas and yellow wax beans if you would like. I will check on my Thai Basil and Dill to see if they have formed seed heads yet. Also will check on the mint.
    Oh boy, I bet my garden is really upset with me.:D I have been to busy to go and just sit in it. Guess I had better go check on it.
  • YogaMamaYogaMama
    edited October 2005
    MoonLgt - is your garden organic? Just curious. :) Send me a PM with your address and I will send you some sungold seeds. My husband said he will have some within 1-2 weeks. My plan for my garden next Spring is beets, carrots, kale, some sort of peas (not sure which kind yet....what kind do you grow?) and spinach. Oh, and lemon cucumbers now! :)

    My husband will have various tomato plants in our backyard, which will be separate from my garden. We will also have a butterlfy garden and an herb garden.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited October 2005
    Yogamam, Yep, I only grow Organic, Right down to my own compost pile. I' ll save you some of my seeds and send them your way. So make sure you let me know where to send them too. I will also send you some peas. They are Sugar Snap peas. The best way to start them is indoors about a week before the last frost. All I do is wet a paper towel and the lay the seeds on it, fold over and placethe towel in a reclosable plastic bag. Put in a dark place. In about a week they should be ready for planting. I do the same for Beans and other hard to start seeds.
  • MoonLgtMoonLgt
    edited November 2005
    As promise Yoga Mama, Here is one of my Herbal Guilds recipes. THis is for a sore muscle soak. Works really great.

    BASIC BATH SALTS:
    1 part baking soda
    2 parts epsom salts
    3 parts sea salt.

    Optinonal:
    1/2 part of Dry Milk
    1/2 part powedered oatmeal
    6-8 drops of an essential oil

    Now for the Muscle Soak:

    3 parts common Sage Leaves
    1 part Comfry
    1 part Mint
    1 part Thyme
    Sage and Lavendar or any other essential oil you like
    And 1 bath salt recipe.

    Combine the herbs & Grind togerther coursely. Combine 1/4 cup of herbs to 1 cup of bath salts, add th Essential Oil, Stiring well to blend. Store in a tightly sealed jar. To use tie 2-3 Tablespoons in a piece of muslin to keep the herbs from clogging the drain and add to a bath of hat water.

    Works great after a had day in the garden. And so simple to make. IF you add the milk it will mosturize the skin to.

    Hawk.
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