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Why do I need a teacher?
I was introduced to Buddhism through the works of Alan Watts, which admittedly, are more along the lines of spiritual entertainment (his words) than a true representation of Buddhist psychology, philosophy, and practices.
I am now taking my practice a bit more "seriously," and have run into countless people on this forum and elsewhere saying that I must have a teacher.
Why?
If every individual must ultimately find their own way, and if a teacher's authority is dependent upon validation from their students, what makes having a teacher so valuable?
I am now taking my practice a bit more "seriously," and have run into countless people on this forum and elsewhere saying that I must have a teacher.
Why?
If every individual must ultimately find their own way, and if a teacher's authority is dependent upon validation from their students, what makes having a teacher so valuable?
0
Comments
Would you study medicine without a teacher?
Can you teach yourself jiu jitsu?
Of course not.
Buddhism is no different.
I disagree. I have had no teacher (I tried one once) and have been happily and successful living as a Buddhist for nearly a decade, as have many others.
If you think you need a teacher, great. That doesn't mean that all Buddhists need teachers.
namaste
To bad you dont have someone to inform your disagreement.
Sure... But for the benefit of those who don't have your certainty in the necessity of a teacher, a few points to ponder.
"Teacher" isn't one of the triple gems.
Dharma is understanding The Four Noble Truths and all they contain, it is a personal journey, not a lesson plan.
People who insist on the necessity of a teacher might not be able to say what it is a teacher provides that we cannot be unto ourselves or each other.
If you do have a teacher make sure you question them as to why they can teach you but you cannot teach yourself.
The Buddha invites us to challenge and doubt his teachings, your teacher should be at least as open as he was.
namaste
Its not my "certainty" its the nature of Buddhism as a living tradition that requires guidance and communication just like the examples I gave before.
Teacher is most certainly one of the three jewels, Buddha was a teacher and he is represented and embodied by the many great spiritual guides we have available to us today. The teacher also falls into the sangha jewel.
You cant fully understand the four noble truths without the experience of others, just like you cant perform brain surgery without the necessary instructions and tools.
Every authentic Buddhist teacher will easily give you these answers.
Buddhism is a living tradition that is passed from person to person, not book to person. The teachings and teachers should be questioned and examined.
If you dont need a teacher you must be some kind of savant.
This is a question that's been much on my mind as well.
I think we're talking about a personal teacher here, someone who you will have at least a few personal conversations with. An adept who will be able to guide you on the path in the way that you personally need.
I tend to be an "I can do it myself" sort and it's hard for me to trust the motives and wisdom of authorities. So I have contented myself thus far that my teachers are the authors of the books on dharma that I collect and read, or the givers of talks at various dharma centers, or the world itself, or the blue sky, or whatever comes my way.
And that has value. Gaining some familiarity with various teachings and schools of Buddhist thought, and seeing for myself that this is a path that I want to follow; I think this is a good first step. It's a broadening step, it's opening up to the dharma, (feasting on it, almost).
Now I feel the need to narrow and refine my focus. I know that there is truth in every buddhist tradition but I don't have the time or mental capacity to follow all of them, and I know I don't have the wisdom to synthesize my own tradition.
When I meditate or think about buddhism now, so many words and ways of seeing the dharma swirl about my minds. I hear the voices of Joseph Goldstein, Thich Nhat Hanh, Ajahn Sumedho, Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche, and so many others, and they are wonderful voices, but I know that I need to focus to make progress.
I guess a good analogy is cooking. If I'm going to make a Pecan Pie, I could read every recipe I can set my hands on, consult my neighbors and facebook friends, and then cobble together my best understanding of what a Pecan Pie is. But the chances are that I would have better results if I picked one recipe, (say from my favorite cookbook) and followed it closely.
Now, how much better would it be to have someone with me, who had actually cooked that recipe himself or herself and taught others to cook it?!? A guide whose only goal for me was baking success; someone who knew the likely mistakes a new cook like me would make and who was committed to helping me navigate the process.
The Buddha placed such importance on teaching. He himself was a teacher, he chose to devote the rest of his life after achieving enlightenment to teaching others how to do the same, and he encouraged those he taught to teach as well. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.060.than.html I believe that teaching is the activity at the heart of the Boddhisattva Vow.
For me, I think I'm seeing that the thought of seeking a teacher is arising when I am ready for a teacher. I needed to develop a bit of knowledge and wisdom under my own steam before realizing the value that a teacher can have in my spiritual life.
I'll let you know how it goes. I have not entered into a teacher/student relationship yet, but I feel close to approaching a local teacher. First, or course, I want to do my due diligence: listen to him teach some more, read his writings, participate in his sangha, and feel sure in my heart.
Thanks for asking this question, Thus.
_ _ /|\ _ _
Namkha
I agree with that. But I think I differ in that I dont see a sanga as needing a teacher. I see a Sanga more as a community of travellers helping each other on the path, rather than the idea of a singular teacher who has some secret sauce - te Buddha himself says he has nothing up his sleeve.
Let us keep on track here, the OP asked about the necessity of a teacher to study Buddhism.
I don't think it is in the sense the OP meant or that you emphatically stipulated that you cannot study Buddhism without a teacher.
That analogy, like your medicin and ju jitsu analogy is simply not the case, IMHO.
Authentic? I dont believe there can be such a thing regarding Dharma, at least not today.
Very far from that. Luckily for me, Dharma isnt that hard to get without a teacher.
So, to you, the path to liberation requires less guidance than martial arts or medicine?
thats unfortunate and is an extraordinarily simplistic view of the dharma.
A view that you most certainly would not have if you had a teacher.
Sorry.
what i'm wondering is, what about books and videos on the internet and contact via forums, etc? i'm not teaching myself here, are authors not considered appropriate teachers?
i read a lot. i watch a lot of teacher's lectures via the internet. and i ask a lot of questions on this forum, in addition to reading other member's questions.
is this wrong?
as it turns out, i have tons and tons of buddhist centers close to me, one literally a block away, haha. trouble is, i can't figure out what type of buddhism appeals to me and since i have such a myriad of choices, i've decided i need to figure this out before i walk into one of these centers. plus, quite a few of them ask that you are familiar with the teachings before showing up. so i figure, fair enough. i have gone this route once before and so have knocked out one sect, but there's still a lot to choose from.
You dont have to choose a lineage or teacher right away.
Take your time and read until you are comfortable.
What we get from books etc. is usually a great source of information and study. But, the teacher student relationship is incredibly rewarding and brings what we find in books to life. This relationship is also the doorway to what cant be found in books but is hugely important for serious dharma practitioners.
Receiving dharma transmission from a living person who embodies the three jewels is unlike any other experience and can not be replicated through books etc.
The Jewel Ornament of liberation says there are five families of buddhas and one of those families is people who learn the teachings on their own.
By the way when I hit apostraphe my computer is doing find which should be control F. Do you guys have any idea why this is happening?
The second way I think a teacher *could* be of benefit would require more than a casual visit once in awhile. That would be informing me of my blind spots. The hardest person to see clearly is the one in the mirror. There is just no getting around the fact that it's much easier to spot flaws in others than it is in oneself.
The apostrophe should only bring up the search box (in Firefox) if your cursor's focus is not already in a text field.
Don't we all learn the teachings on our own before and during Sangha participation? Its the practice, and the company of those who demonstrate it in their lives that counts for so much wordless teaching. I think it is technically true that we can practice through to liberation without this, but practically it's very very rare.
solitary learner,
unteachable (my words these are those people who really struggle and don't care if they do wrong things and don't want to learn anything, but the JoL says they can become buddhas),
mahayana (note this is not tibetan versus therevadan. the qualities of mahayana and hinayana are defined in the JoL text. Therefore a tibetan may be hinayana and a therevadan mahayana depending on these qualities),
hinayana (see mahayana), and
indeterminate (these people take on the qualities of the sangha that they study with)....
Zen is one of the traditions I would say that an actual teacher is probably more necessary.
But of course you need a teacher. Whether that teacher is your own life experiences which reveal the 4NTs to you, books, or a wise old man with a long grey stroking beard who floats in lotus position, or a combination of many things... doesn't matter. Having a "real" teacher who is further along in the path and can guide you and redirect you , can make progress much faster, though, although I really don't see it as necessary...
For online Zen sanghas:
http://www.treeleaf.org/
and http://www.plumline.org/ which is supposed to be in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh although in my experience, while the people were very kind, it was more just an online chat session where someone would recite the 5 Precepts and instruct everyone when to start meditating... and other than that, general discussions about whatever was on others' minds.
I think the answer to the question depends on how deep one wants to go. It seems like some forms of meditation, when practiced enough, introduce altered states of consciousness, like visions, out of body experiences, unusual sensations of energy etc. I would never want to go there without a teacher-- the likeliest destination would be the funny farm. I got a tiny glimpse of some of these phenomena before I got into Buddhism and all I can say is that I was completely unprepared to face them, I hadn't the tiniest clue.
But then for many people, Buddhism is more of a guide to saner living. Learn to let go a bit, be good to others and self, focus on the present, etc. That's what it is for me, call it "watered down" but there it is, the only thing that makes sense to me at this point. I do think it'd be great to have people to talk to who share my worldview and approach to life. However,I'm not sure what a teacher would do for me. Especially, someone from a "lineage", tracing its roots to a culture very different from mine and permeated by the influences of that culture.
Don't be sorry, but do try not to be dogmatic;)
The Mount Equity Zendo is in Williamsport PA.
Did Siddharta Gautama have a teacher in the sense being discussed?
There are also stories of his previous lifetimes I believe.
My understanding is that he realised "complete Dharma" through the tutelage of his own experience rather than that of a "teacher" in the sense of the word used in the OP.
Probably most everyone. If you are going on a long trip, why not consult with someone who has already traveled that path? Why try to go it alone? Much less of a chance of getting lost that way. And if you do get lost, which you most likely will at some point or another, they are there to guide you back.
It's not about finding one's own way, the way has already been found. It's about walking the way and many people have already walked it. Why not consult with them?
You sounded like joeseph campbell there
This quote makes me feel something !
Nikaya teaching is exoteric and direct, more suitable for self study
but Tibetan Buddhism is esoteric and required a personal teacher ,
some Mahayana do have central teacher for their schools, but personal teacher is not required , etc
I was merely saying that i apprechiate your well rounded view. It wasn't intended to depreciate Buddha's path at all , i was just pointing to your similarity with one of my favorite Campbell quote.
I have learned much from recorded teachings and books, and it has been invaluable. But there is one thing I cannot learn from these impersonal sources ... it must be learned through modeling:
My teacher models how a skillful Buddhist practitioner lives ...
- through facial expression (such gentleness and patience)
- through constant and keen awareness of others' needs and responding accordingly (even just the way he will rush in to steady someone with a hand on the elbow)
- through loving patience when one of us is being thoroughly ... uh, annoying or ignorant or even having a hissy-fit
- by the way he allows us to disagree with his teaching (even though you know he's gotta believe it, he never argues with us)
- by how calmly he can sit and observe (say at a potluck), not needing to hear the sound of his own voice or force our awareness onto him
- by how easily laughter ripples out of his mouth, how thoroughly in-the-moment he lives
- by how he never ever talks about his skill or knowledge or mastery, and how he acts out his attitude of being of service to all.
You cannot pick this up from a book, or a tape, or a vid. This is where WE are heading with our practice, and the value of seeing it lived out live is ... incredibly precious. This is also why we do not have to have a teacher who lives in the same city as us ... a little exposure lasts a long time.
For those who want to find a centre near you, try:
http://www.dharmanet.org/listings/
Sweetie, I learned a lot off of tapes by Pema Chodron (available for purchase online), and from various books too. A good teacher (emphasis on good) can help you accelerate your own practice, but is not essential to move down the path.
You do not need to figure out ahead of time what type of buddhism appeals to you ... you will figure that out by encountering it firsthand, and you will know. Remember, too, that all the schools of Buddhism will move you down the path. Go to the first one that takes in beginners (how strange that there are centers that don't take in beginners!). Don't be too quick to judge ... go for 3 to 6 months. And if it doesn't "do it" for you, try another center. You only have the rest of your lives to figure it out, so there's no rush.
For the record, I'm not really a True Blue Buddhist (please see my introduction in the new member's thread) but I've never had an official human teacher. Rather, I've always regarded the Universe in its entirety as my Teacher, good, bad or indifferent.
Many faiths/traditions have utilized the teacher/student dynamic, but in all honesty I'm somewhat mistrustful of that entire dynamic having seen it be mis-used and abused in many instances and I've formed the opinion that such a dynamic, whilst possibly essential in by-gone days is maybe irrelevant in todays world.
Many years ago, I undertook a serious study of the Jewish Kabbalah, despite not being Jewish myself. Due to a set of fortuitous circumstances I met a genuine teacher of the discipline and asked him if he would be my teacher. For reasons he didn't expand upon, he declined my request.
It may have been something as simple as the fact that I was not Jewish (he was of the Luria school - a most fundamentalist and conservative branch of Kabbalah) or the reasons may well have been far more complex.
Whatever, I later realised that this branch was probably not for me anyway, but at the time I was somewhat abashed and hurt. Many years later I realised that he had in fact done me a great service and I remember him today with great affection -
Because he declined to be my teacher!
Just my thoughts.
I highly recommend Ajahn Brahm
http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA
Thickpaper, would you ever consider being a teacher? What books did you read? Any suggestions for a newcomer?
These days, we are living more and more of our lives online. While it is certainly a wonderful thing to have such unprecedented access to so much information and so many other people from disparate parts of the world, there's something to be said for face-to-face contact. I don't know about you, but when I spend an inordinate amount of time online, I lose touch with mindfulness. I feel sometimes washed out, disconnected from reality and my life and (especially) from other people. Finding a sangha has the benefit of allowing you to stay mindful, stay engaged and stay connected while you integrate the dharma teachings in a way reading books or online material or even posting/reading on a forum cannot really replicate.
All that said, I don't think you necessarily need a sangha.
You can put together a car from scratch having all the parts. that would take a long time. if you had a book, you could do it a little bit faster, but it would be very frustrating. if you had someone there in person to show you what goes where and answer your questions, the process would be much, much easier and smoother.
that being said, some people are fine with books. and some people are fine figuring it out for themselves.
I can't speak to every person, but I spent years understanding, learning, and did I mention COMPLETELY understanding every bit of Buddhist theory. It was not until I met and practiced with, a real life Zen master (and genuine,which is my own luck fortunately for me) that something changed. And it was experiential, and magical almost. But that is just my own mileage. As I had 'learnt' so much over internet forums, and 'understood' so much from debate and reading books, and other peoples' awakenings/understandings, I had always thought I could get away with it. That, plus I found it really hard to find a genuine living master in this day and age. So I was lucky. But that is just my story.
you are right, i shouldn't feel like i have to be a long time practitioner to attend. it was somewhat difficult to detach from my last sangha, so perhaps i'm being more cautious than i should be. i went back through the top ones on my list and found a few i'd really like to check out. i found one that is about 15 mins away and has a beginners class once a month. i think this would make me feel less nervous about the experience.
what do you think about attending two at the same time? does this seem silly? based upon their websites and the dharma talks i read online, i like what i've read about the one that is 15 minutes away. but in all honesty, there is one literally a block away from me that i could walk to and i feel odd not giving this one first priority. their website isn't as informative, but they might just not have a very good programmer...
warmest wishes
Be very careful about teachers and don't rush into anything just because others say so, or tell you such and such a person is an 'enlightened master' and so on. Check very carefully before making any commitments.
First of all you should carefully investigate the core teachings of the historical Buddha. You don't need a teacher to do that. Have a look at the 'What -Buddha- Taught.net' and 'Buddhanet, sites.
After that, if you're looking for a teacher, remember there are Theravada traditions as well as Mahayana. The Theravada Thai Forest tradition has some excellent teachers, for example.
Kind regards,
Dazzle
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Now, here is wisdom!
Thank you Glow!
You have earned my respect with the flick of a key-board.
In the Work.
Dog Star