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masturbation question
I have an off and on habit of choking the chicken, and I thought it was ok for the longest time, because people always quote a study how it reduces your risk of prostate cancer. I thought, "well, ok, how can you lose?" It turns out that they're wrongly quoting it though. Its only beneficial if you're over 50, but if you're 20, frequently choking the chicken can increase your chances of getting cancer later in life by 70% if I remember right. I think I can go without it. I've given up on a lot of things: meat, alcohol, pot, etc etc. I was gonna just scrap the porn, because I think there's a valid argument that it objectifies women, but now I'm considering masturbation too because of the study
The odd thing is that the researcher for the study noted that abstinence from masturbating might not do anything. People with higher hormone levels might just naturally masturbate more,and those hormones might just affect the prostate negatively anyway, whether or not the individual abstains. I think it would be beneficial if they researched prostate cancer rates in practitioners of Vedic sects in India who abstain due to religious reasons. That could actually prove, conclusively, whether or not it has any effect. I figure that Hinduism is a very old tradition, though, and that they might be onto something in their view of excessive autoeroticism having negative consequences on the body. I could see it. We exist because of pro-creation, and if we overuse the machinery, our bodies might, somehow, become conditioned to think its job is done in life and then atrophy at a faster rate. I use "think" in a pretty loose context too. I know hormones play a large in the body's life cycle, and I don't want to speed up any processes.
I respect my health, and I think its my duty to respect my body as much as possible with all the scientific information that's available. Is there anything that Buddhism offers on the issue of masturbation and how to abstain from it? Any help would be appreciated, and I'm sorry if this first post comes off as weird.
The odd thing is that the researcher for the study noted that abstinence from masturbating might not do anything. People with higher hormone levels might just naturally masturbate more,and those hormones might just affect the prostate negatively anyway, whether or not the individual abstains. I think it would be beneficial if they researched prostate cancer rates in practitioners of Vedic sects in India who abstain due to religious reasons. That could actually prove, conclusively, whether or not it has any effect. I figure that Hinduism is a very old tradition, though, and that they might be onto something in their view of excessive autoeroticism having negative consequences on the body. I could see it. We exist because of pro-creation, and if we overuse the machinery, our bodies might, somehow, become conditioned to think its job is done in life and then atrophy at a faster rate. I use "think" in a pretty loose context too. I know hormones play a large in the body's life cycle, and I don't want to speed up any processes.
I respect my health, and I think its my duty to respect my body as much as possible with all the scientific information that's available. Is there anything that Buddhism offers on the issue of masturbation and how to abstain from it? Any help would be appreciated, and I'm sorry if this first post comes off as weird.
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Comments
The Buddha taught suffering and the end of suffering. Within the eightfold path which is the path leading to the end of suffering he taught renunciation from hedonistic indulgence in sensual please. I'm talking about the second factor of the eightfold path, right intention, which includes renunciation. I think there is should be no doubt this includes sexual pleasure.
Personally I don't like the talk like... 'go ahead an masturbate whenever you want, it's good for you'. I've heard many claims about masturbation on the body and mind which are negative, but I encourage you to seek the truth yourself. I've heard losing seamen compared to losing blood, which you really don't wanna do in excess.
With regard to your question of does Buddhism have teachings about masturbation and how to overcome it... all I can think of right now in my memory through my casual study of Buddha Dharma is that within the eight precepts given for people seeking to become monks or very serious and dedicated meditation practitioners it includes abstaining from sexual activities. Also the eightfold path includes abstaining from lustful thoughts. (which I have learned from casual study of Buddhism and you should look to the Suttras).
I think pornography leads to images being implanted in the mind which could make it difficult to abstain from lustful thoughts. And I think if your serious about rooting out the cause of Dukkha you should abstain at least from pornography in my opinion. Likely the Buddha was never exposed to pornographic material and certainly at least not to the graphic content we have now.
I'm pretty sure, and I would like someone who knows about this to comment, that the Buddha perscribed as the antidote to lustful thoughts to meditating on the discustingness of the body. I wish I could tell you about this meditation but I know little about it. I think it means examining the 32 parts of the body carefully... kind of imagining them, and realizing how discusting they are. This fact leads me to think that if in following the path of the Buddhas you should abandon sexual indulgence or perhaps over indulgence.
Keep in mind we're talking about the Middle Way... not ascetism, and the choice is yours.
Cheers, and seek the truth and look to the Suttras. This is just my thoughts.
I subscribe to the thought that excessive hunger can distract from practice and living, as can the need to urinate or defecate. If masturbation is not based on porn addiction, sex addiction, or infidelity to one's partner, then in a sense it can be seen as just another bodily function. For us ordinary folks who can't transmute the energy, what the heck. Eat, sleep, urinate, defecate, masturbate. Don't dwell on it excessively and go back to what you're doing.
WHERE did you hear THAT piece of nonsense? That's utter bunk. I'm not aware of ANY scientific study (we're not talking Fox News here, but actual scientific study) that says anything of the kind. There is absolutely NO connection whatsoever between masturbation and cancer, either positive or negative that I've ever heard of. Masturbation is simply another form of sexual release, no different from intercourse, and I've certainly never heard that intercourse causes or prevents cancer.
If masturbating when you're 20 causes cancer, about 95% of the population would be dead by now.
Mtns (RN)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3072021.stm
EDIT NOTE:
Oh hang on.... no, I see what you mean now.
No, he's talking crap, but only partially so!
Mtns
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You're right. It is a stretch.
I think it's worthwhile to note that this thread is not about porn, or at least that the OP does no mention porn. If it's just about masturbation the answer is much simpler.Until porn is mentioned, then it's just about masturbation. Porn is being discussed on another thread.
Re-direction and criticism duly noted - however, the OP did indeed mention porn...
Sexual desire aside from porn can be little more than an inconvenience, just another bodily function. There is a very convenient way of getting past that.
Simple sexual desire is just inconvenient- for me, at least, single at age 58.
So the solution is simple. I just get past it.
The statistics aren't bunk. The study was conducted by PHD holding medical researchers at the University of Nottingham, and it was published in the BJU (British Journal of Urology), not by Fox News, not by Bob Jones University, but a reputable, scientific publication.
"For men in their 20s, "frequent masturbation" was two to seven times per week. Compared to same-age men who reported masturbating less than once per month, 20-something frequent masturbators had a 79% higher risk of prostate cancer by age 60."
"For men in their 50s, "frequent masturbation" was one or more times per week. Compared to same-age men who reported never masturbating, 50-something frequent masturbators had a 70% lower risk of prostate cancer."
"So it's not masturbation itself that's increasing prostate cancer risk in young men. More masturbation may just mean more sex drive -- and more androgens bathing prostate tissues"
"These are just theories, Dimitropoulou warns. More research is needed to determine the exact role of sex hormones and sexual activity in prostate-cancer risk at different stages of life."
Anyway, that's why I was saying they could find out, once and for all, if abstaining from masturbation plays any role in decreased cancer risk by studying the rate of prostate cancer in vedic monks and practitioners, who view abstinence from it as an act of penance.
"The findings were surprising. Sexual intercourse did not affect prostate cancer risk. But frequent masturbation did -- in different ways, at different times of life."
This is because sexual intercourse is normally done a lot less frequently. You don't have a partner willing to go at it with you all the time, but you do have a hand. I wanna be clear that I don't intend on abstaining altogether. I'm just thinking of keeping it to once or twice or three times a month, to the rates that the not at risk group were maturbating. If I did manage to stop completely, which I think may be impossible for a male in their 20's to do, it might raise my risk, because the men in there 50's who don't masturbate at all are at a higher risk. The researcher says that prostate cancer might not be preventable because of an inescapable sex drive dictated by genetics and a naturally higher level of hormones in the body. This is probably partially true, but I kind of think that forcing your body to replenish semen constantly might elevate certain hormone levels that might not be there otherwise, and this might have an affect on turning certain oncogenes on and off in the prostates tissue or something. I don't know. I'm no scientist. The frequency of masturbation may just be indicators of risk and not a causal factor at all though. I'm anxious to see a more conclusive study.
"It is kind of logical that a moderate level of masturbatory activity has to be maintained," she says. "Not too much, and not none at all."
I have a feeling, though, that science will find out, yet again, that the fundamentalists aren't 100% right, and the hedonists aren't 100% right. Its probably something in-between. It won't make you go blind, but there's probably a downside to overindulgence. For example, eating, like sex, is natural, but if you eat too much, you grow obese, become diabetic, and you die prematurely or have to live with a lower quality of life. That's the general rule of thumb I'm going off of in my decisiveness to abstain. The full implications and context of the study aren't understood yet, so I don't wanna get too preachy. Its just a personal choice for me, and I think its well reasoned enough.
I think the key thought here is that of over-indulgence and distraction from practice and putting too much time, energy, and mental focus into it.
I agree with SherabDorje. The Buddha taught to not cause any harm. What harm are you causing?
then why was i so drawn to gay porn? :eekblue: hahaha...
i don't know about the cancer statistics regarding masturbation... but it is reminding me a little bit of an old roommate i used to live with. she was the type who refused to eat off anything made of plastic and would flip out on anyone smoking cigarettes (because of cancer), but would go tanning all the time and had no problem drinking until she blacked out every other day.
point being, you can try and be as picky as you want to be... but there are articles pointing fingers at almost everything in regards to cancer. i live in detroit, i'm pretty sure as soon as i walk outside and breathe in the air that i'm mostly getting a bunch of cancer causing air pollution. it's unfortunate, but this is where we find ourselves these days. in my opinion, you could go crazy trying to keep yourself from all of the different causes of cancer, but all you're really going to do is stress yourself out... and don't you know, stress causes cancer too. :winkc:
i find it interesting that in that article they discuss moderation that sounds a lot like the "middle path". i think this is probably the best advice you can receive regarding masturbation. just curious, do you plan to abstain from sex as well, or just masturbation?
If you read the link to the study, I may be doing harm too my body by possibly increasing my risk of cancer by masturbating every other day. Granted, the researchers do say that it may just be an indicator and not a causation. You have to keep in mind, though, that the link between diabetes and over-eating could be interpreted as just a correlation. You could say, "well, people over-eat because of genetics and that those genes make gorging food merely an indicator of developing heart disease and diabetes later in life since you really can't control your urge to eat no more than the genes that create that urge." The connection between excessive eating and obesity is, of course, easier to prove because an external element is being introduced (the food), where with masturbation, everything's internal. I mean, well, I guess a hand or a dildo could be considered an external factor, but you know what I mean. you're only giving into urges and thoughts when you're bored by agitating hormones and chemicals already in the body, not giving into urges when you're bored by introducing an excessive amount of food into your body to be processed by your digestive tract and deconstructed into basic chemicals and be reconstructed and matabolized into forming hormones, proteins, and enzymes that might become agitated and thrown out of balance when you decide to give into the urge to stay up to late and under-sleep, remain inactive and not burn off those excessive calories, or possibly masturbate. Also, this study only applies to males, not females. I imagine if its proven that masturbating has a significant effect on increasing production of potentially carcinogenic hormones in males though, the same might apply to women in other ways as well. Who knows. This is all just speculation from someone who's only taken a couple of 101 level biology courses. I'm a layperson in both the subject of Buddhism and Biology,
Anyway, researchers are in the dark on this one too though. Like I said in my previous post, we may just be stuck with our sex drives and the hormones that cause them from our genetics, and there may be nothing we can do about it. Abstaining from masturbation or not abstainig may have no effect whatsoever on cancer causing hormones. Not enogugh's known yet to come to a conclusion, but I still feel uneasy about the findings.
My initial question about what Buddhism has to say about masturbation also has to do with the fact that I know that the tradition has its origins in the Vedic culture of ancient India. I know, as I mentioned in the previous posts, that some practitioners preserve semen because of a belief that it has health consequences due to expending invaluable, sexual energy (maybe this practice was observed by the ascetic sects that Sidhartha was briefly apart of), and I was wondering if any writings or scripture confronted the issue from the perspective of the 5 precepts, 8 fold path, and middle way. I'm wondering if other faiths, besides Hindusism, originating from the Indian subcontinent could offer any light or anectdotal evidence on this issue of how the connection between excessive, sexual stimulation and health that I, the casual reader, and the experts in the study (that I regret having not posted the link to in the OP) are completely clueless about. My health is a real concern to me.
It has less to do with psychology to me and more to do with health. Since I know I masturbate, on average, every other day and that this puts me into a much higher risk group for developing prostate cancer at 60, which is a very common disease. I'm thinking of limiting my masturbation to no more than three times a month just to play it safe. Its for the same reason I don't want to smoke cigarettes or drink soda. Its why I limit situations that could potentially end in concussions and put me in a higher risk group for developing Parkinsons. It has little to do with any neuroticism over purity and perversion and mostly to do with a concern or possible neuroticism for my health. ..and in Buddhism, I know a lot of things are done for reasons of health and treating the body right. That's my perception anyway. After all, I am in the beginner talk section, so if someone could illuminate on any misconceptions I have of Buddhism, I'm all open eyes. To me, new information is a blessing and a curse. It can help me out, but the more I learn, the more responsibility I have for that new knowledge that I come in contact with. Sorry if I sound like a total head case.
I don't see anyone being moralistic or otherwise freaked-out by the topic of masturbation. I do read people seeming to be threatened when masturbation is talked about like other sensory pleasure in the context of the four noble truths, where moderate sense restraint is part of the practice. Any suggestion of including masturbation gets people's backs up. It becomes a very black and white issue.
You're right about stress and cancer. ...but no, I don't plan on abstaining from sex since I don't even get much of it anyway. Its been like 2 months. I just want to limit ejaculation, for the most part, to 2 or three times a month. Besides, if you take the statistics having to do with the older men in their 50's into account who didn't masturbate at all, complete abstinence could actually increase my chances of getting cancer. I don't think I could completely stop, even if I wanted to. My sex drive is just too active for that.
67.3% of statistics are made up on the spot!
Correlation does not equal causation!
Always look at the methodology used to find/collect/interpret/show the data - there are so many possible confounding factors not taken into consideration with a simple comparison survey. Not to mention there's a bazillion different shades of interpretation based on personal bias, agenda, grant-funding-possibility, scoop-ratings-generation....
The article doesn't seem as bad as some other PhD-based studies I've seen (but there were and are still horribly misleading and incorrect studies out and about because statistical methods are often misunderstood and misused).
^Key point that makes and breaks the media's interpretation! The article mentions that equally high sexual intercourse didn't seem to correlate, but masturbation did. Which hormones bathing the prostate during seminal fluid production/ejaculation from masturbating are different to the ones resulting from sex? As far as I'm aware, the prostate doesn't give a hoot about either one - nor even can 'tell' the difference - as long as its job is carried out! How is a person with a high sex drive going out getting laid "two to seven times a week" less at risk than a person who masturbates (and what about mutual masturbation?!) Did they find the same risk in raging horny-as-rabbits with the extreme willpower to remain abstinent?
Also, the study was of 840 (or something) men - where did they find these men, and how reliable were their answers? What lifestyle/dietary/other genetic conditions/etc factors were taken into consideration? Is it possible to relate the study to the rest of the world, then?
/rant :buck:
There is also mention in many ye olde chinese texts about conserving your vital life force energy through not ejaculating all over the place, but I also have my doubts about those.
In essence, refer to the Kalama Sutta regarding what to conclude from even PhD-written, MD-reviewed articles (especially from a popularity-driven medium) and --- moderation and skillful action, I guess. The researchers did warn about jumping to conclusions and that they needed to do more research - I really just wanted to have a rant about that article, because it really came across as a sensation-piece rather than a scientific, objective reporting.
How sadistic! I can't believe the poor bird is still alive
I worked for a holistic health doctor in the 80s. He used to bring in articles almost daily of things that could cause cancer. One day he brought in an article that said if you don't dig potatoes out of the ground and cook them immediately they will cause cancer. I gave up.
Mellowviper: I should have read it better. I wouldn't worry about Prostrate Cancer anymore. They are making new strides everyday and so it is much easier to treat, plus if you are tested yearly after a certain age they can get it in time.
The physiological urge is generally relieved through ye olde wet dream if it's strong enough, anyway, and I'm sure there's some sort of spermatozoa recycling going on somewhere. It just comes down to apply the precepts to it, as usual
Propaganda. I can't speak for others, but I'm sure the quota of sugar and spice I've seen in some women are in the negatives
This really isn't a solution, as people "choke the chicken" whether they're in a relationship or not. Also the OP didn't specify if he was dating anyone.
personally, i subscribe to the philosophy of the great zen master 'Frankie' which goes something like this -
"Relax. Don't do it. When you want to come."
Easy for you (who most likely has one) to say. Got any candidates local (to me) that I have even a smidgen in common with? I thought so...
New here - Just had to say I love your reply. Frankie and many others, Zen Masters. LOL. Party on Wayne.
thats perfect.
I second that. Well said, TheJourney.
See how master bating effects you, physically, mentally and spiritually and take notes (although not while master bating as you will likely get your note book soiled).
I think that many activities such as master bating, effect people differently.
For example, if you suffer from anxiety, then doing anything that elevates the stress hormones in your blood and brain will be detrimental.
In my experience, master bating as well as excessive sexual intercourse can have a detrimental effect on the mind, as ejaculation does increase stress hormones in the blood stream, which, once the natural opiates from the climax have worn off, can increase the stress that you will suffer from.
I have also spent prolonged periods abstaining from all sexual activities which have resulted in a calming effect on the mind.
I also have found that excessive sex and master bating does feed the seeds of greed, and will make one more focused on sex and seeking sexual partners which may lead to negative karma because you may be more tempted to break your personal vows and deviate from the path. Or you may make babies, which although glorious, will distract you from achieving your objectives.
Master bating comes within the category of "attachment/Attraction"
As prolonged exposure to elevated stress hormones has proven to damage the hippocampus. This is also one of the parts of the brain that when damaged causes dementia and diseases like alzheimer's.
:-(
feeding your desire means that you are feeding your delusion and sewing seeds of karma. Whether through Desire or aversion. They all distract and sew seeds that keep us deluded and stop us from becoming non attached.
Due to the constantly changing nature of the net of cause and effect (otherwise known as Samsara) your actions will eventually results in suffering.
You feed your desires, but your desire to be in a constant state of ecstasy can never be sustained through attachment (aversion and attraction),
So feeding an addiction is likely to cause suffering as it is only a matter of time that your actions bear fruit of suffering.
The Buddha would probably tell you to reflect on the futility of all things.
Perhaps you should look into tantra practice to learn the futility of the nature of sex.
But I guess we all bite off as much as we can chew :-)
Masturbation leads to brain damage? Yeah, I'm going to need to see some peer-reviewed studies before buying that one since there are also studies out there suggesting orgasms (whether from sex or masturbation) actually help to alleviate stress by stimulating the production of oxytocin, which counteracts the stress-hormone, cortisol, and endorphins, which relieve stress and pain, as well as elevate moods. The same happens with things exercising and laughter.
Next thing you're going to tell me is that it grows hair on your palms.
actually, again its all down to the individual's condition.
Again one rule doesn't fit all. This is the problem in life, as there are so many variations in human condition, what is true one day for one person may have no relevance to a different person on another day, or even in fact the same person several years later.
This is why master bating can be one of the contributing factors in individuals who already have elevated stress hormone levels and why master bating probably isn't the best cure for acute anxiety. Also, sex isn't probably that good for people who suffer from acute anxiety due to elevated stress hormones as the increase of stress hormones may cause PE in sensitive individuals.
As for brain damage, the Neuro chemical make up of an individuals brain changes constantly and it is all down to the balance that determines whether damage is caused or not.
Exercise is also a complex area. as although exercise is an excellent way of reducing cortisol and noradrenaline in the blood stream, if a person over exercises, that can actually elevate cortisol levels which causes anxiety, stress, and if elevated for long enough, brain damage can occur (as the brain is damaged by the prolonged elevation in stress hormones such as glucocortiziods).
Again, try for yourself and take notes:
If after master bating, you experience elevated stress levels or the next day you find it hard to get out of bed, then you probably are elevating the stress hormones in your blood stream.
Out of interest, an amino acid called PhosphatidylSerine (PS) can be taken before extreme exercise as it blunts the cortisol receptors in the brain cells which mean that you don't get effected by the exercise induced cortisol increase which would normally cause extreme stress in sensitive individuals.
From my experience, PS works as well. Especially Solgar brand. although it is quiet costly for a supplement.
Everything.
lol...although saddened at the same time...
for sure dude. ironic but maybe true.
Everything that causes stress elevation is likely to be the cause of all sorts of problems.
But on a positive note, good ways to combat disease:
Meditation
Deep Breathing
Moderate Exercise
Eat well
(dont w@nk too much.....lol)
master bating is especially bad, when done in public, especially during group meditation...lol.
lol
anyway, i will now put my childish humor back in the childish humor compartment inside my twisted little head. no offense meant to anyone.
As for masturbation. If a man doesn't have sex or masturbate the body will cause spontaneous ejaculation, usually in the sleep. This'll happen to a man whether he's a layperson or a monk, there's even a clause in the extensive Theravadnan rules that say this form of ejaculation is ok.
Masturbation is as natural a bodily function as eating and drinking, I think all mammals indulge in it to some degree.
You can either view it as a desire that needs to be let go of, which is hard as your body will disagree with you. Or you can accept that the physical body requires sexual release as much as it requires sleep, or food. That's just how we're built.