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Just another fairy tale?
Simplify
Veteran
Hi,
Buddhism is appealing because it does not depend on absurd things like god and heaven while it places emphasis on your own psychology and training the mind. Thus from my rational perspective its possible that what it teaches is actually true.
However there is a great problem. Hardly anyone claims to have reached enlightenment. It seems people do train their minds to be a bit more aware, perhaps to stop jumping around so much, but in the end still full of conflict.
Humans believe all sorts of stories, hoping that they can have something better. They engage in all sorts of practices which promise happiness or a better life. They will sacrifice animals to imaginary gods, assign fantastic meaning to the movement of stars, and engage in a huge multitude of practices which promise to make this life better but are clearly fantasy inspired by the difficulty of living.
Perhaps it is simply beyond our power to end the conflict, but we want peace so badly we are willing to believe this fairy tale.
Buddhism is appealing because it does not depend on absurd things like god and heaven while it places emphasis on your own psychology and training the mind. Thus from my rational perspective its possible that what it teaches is actually true.
However there is a great problem. Hardly anyone claims to have reached enlightenment. It seems people do train their minds to be a bit more aware, perhaps to stop jumping around so much, but in the end still full of conflict.
Humans believe all sorts of stories, hoping that they can have something better. They engage in all sorts of practices which promise happiness or a better life. They will sacrifice animals to imaginary gods, assign fantastic meaning to the movement of stars, and engage in a huge multitude of practices which promise to make this life better but are clearly fantasy inspired by the difficulty of living.
Perhaps it is simply beyond our power to end the conflict, but we want peace so badly we are willing to believe this fairy tale.
0
Comments
The way I look at it is that the practice is changing who I am and for the better. I am causing myself and others less suffering than I did previously and have no reason to think this trend won't continue as long as I am applying sincere effort at the path.
Likewise I have experienced things from practice that allowed me, very briefly to see reality much more clearly. I will call this an enlightenment moment. Not like the whole veil was removed permanently from my eyes, but perhaps more like a small hole temporarily opened in the veil and I was able to see what was beyond the veil.
This left no doubt in my mind as to what was possible in regard to enlightenment although to what degree I will attain enlightenment is an open question.
Nevertheless I know where the path I am on leads and I know where the path I used to be on leads and that's enough reason for me to stay on the path of Buddhist practice. The other path pretty much has suck written all over it.
I have never met Ajahn Chah, but I find the stories (which, admittedly, have probably become a little bit more story-like over time) about him inspiring because here was this human being with so much wisdom, who was so happy living a simple life. It makes me think "hey...maybe there's some truth to these stories, maybe I can do it too!" which (can) give rise to Faith, which (sometimes) gives rise to Effort, which (every now and then) gives rise to Mindfulness, which (some people say) gives rise to Concentration, which (supposedly) gives rise to Wisdom, which (maybe) leads to Nibbana.
I don't know, I'm not enlightened, but I have Faith (which can be a scary word to rationally-minded people) that if any Path is going to lead to Ultimate Happiness (Nibbana) Buddhism is a pretty safe bet due to its 2500 year track record of very happy people.
Why is that a problem?
How do you know there is still conflict?
How do you know it is a fairy tale?
Just because we cannot see something does not mean it isn't real. For example, oxygen molecules. We take it on faith that we are breathing in these things, but we cannot see them, and most of us have never seen an oxygen molecule, or done many experiments to prove oxygen is real....we just put our faith that science says so and science must be right because it is rational. It could be argued that oxygen is a fairy tale....I mean I inhale and feel air, but it is smooth with out any indication of little molecules floating around in it.
Now I'm not trying to dismiss the idea of oxygen, or science, or rationality....I"m quite fond of all of those actually. I am only saying that saying something is untrue simply because I have yet to see evidence to support it myself, is maybe short sighted.
I would also add that I'm not sure "Buddha nature" is "rational". Also if we actually look at what is in the suttas/sutras there are plenty of supernatural beings and events taking place. It is just that western "rational" Buddhism likes to gloss over those things.
Also the most popular form of Buddhism in the world is Pure Land, so if you want to find holes in Buddhism because it isn't purely rational...there is plenty to work with there.
Fortunately love, art, music....really all the best bits in life don't require a rational explanation, and if there is one....I'd rather just experience the beauty than rationalize it.
Personally I think "rational thought" is a bit over-rated in the west...but that's just me. It has its great uses for sure, but I don't think it is the be all and end all, and in fact I think to get far in Buddhism, at some point you have to drop even the rational/conceptual for the direct experiencial.
In Metta,
Raven
With deepest regards,
Todd
I think claims is the key word there. I have a feeling that most enlightened people would find it meaningless to share this fact. You would only share it if you understood that it had some benefit in one or another way. Then again, I am not one of them, so I wouldn't really know. But it would seem unskilfull for somebody just to parade and say "I am enlightened!". But I haven't properly contemplated this, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.
I agree with what the others say. I see enlightenedment more like a puzzle than a prize. We all have the blocks of the puzzle, and the Dhamma teaches you and gives you the instructions of how to put all the little pieces together. Then you have to start building this huge big puzzle, and each time two pieces connect the picture gets clearer, your life gets less muddied. Imagine the feeling of working a lifetime on a big puzzle, slowly understanding, slowing seeing things as they truly are and then fitting that last little piece in to understand EVERYTHING. I can only imagine how that could be like.
The thing is though, that even if you connect only two pieces together, your life would be simpler, there would be less suffering and less pain. There is always this scence of "impossibility" when you open a 10 000 piece puzzle, but as you find each piece, you gain more and more confidence in the end result. And the puzzle of knowing is way more complex than a 10 000 jigsaw. It's also good to note that if you keep concentrating on having the big picture, and not concentrating on putting pieces together and not being mindful, you will never get there.
So that's why I think Buddhism is far from a fairy tale, becuase nothing is in vain, none of your efforts ever go to waste. It's not like you wander in a blind religion that promices heaven after death and you wander around doing your thing. There are clear results, not miricles. There are steps to the right place, not an elevator to nowhere. No efforts you make towards compassion and understanding will disolve.
Don't let frustration and doubt let you break the work you have done on your own puzzle. If you ever feel frustrated or doubtfull, just step back until you regain the confidence to start building again.
I don't think there is a "no-self" just dependant self, empty self. To me there is a huge difference between "no-self" and emptiness. In how I've thought, if you are enlightened, there is still you but with the understanding that you don't exist inherently. So therefore you can have experiences, but the experience would expand to all dependancies, it wouldn't be confined to what we believe we are.
No, enlightenment, and even full awakening i.e. Buddhahood is not a myth.
But, as jinzang (I think, rightly) points out, the practice is in itself wonderful, even when it feels like hell. It is necessary to put some effort and determination and sincerity into practice. Do not seek benefits for they will come of themself for the sincere practitioner.
IMO.
Best wishes,
Abu