Cut down a tree

whiterabbit

Hi, I'm new here, I just recently started getting serious into beginning to practice Buddhism so I will likely continue to peruse this apparently excellent forum.

I have a question regarding the cutting down of trees and plants.

I am currently in the process of having a lot of brush and unwanted weeds and vegetation cleared from my hillside yard. I also had a couple of small/young trees/bushes removed. Most importantly, I had a 30-foot tall, perhaps-30 year old tree removed, it's a palm of some sort. I had this tree cut down because it was growing too near to my house and posing a (minor but increasing over the years) danger to the roof, it also shed palm fronds constantly which cannot be mulched or mowed and do not compost (not a good reason perhaps from a buddhist point of view) and most importantly it was something of a fire hazard, being perilously close to my chimney.

All this combined to today, after literally 2 years of deliberating on the fate of this tree, having it chopped down.

I feel very bad especially about removing this tree (foremost amongst all the rest of the plant life I had removed). It was a life and a long lived one at that. However, I did not remove it for laughs or even necessarily for convenience, but instead for the reasons listed above. Any one of which was perhaps not enough to warrant the axe, but all three combined made for a situation in which I made the decision to remove it.

All that being said, I feel as though I should honor this tree or make an offering to its remains or to its spirit.

I read that for monks, it is expressly forbidden to cut down trees. It is obvious that for a layperson, the rules cannot always be followed, however, this is a rule which I'd like to follow whenever possible.

Anyways, I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on this matter from those more adept and experienced, who can offer me wisdom to right my wrong.

Cheers,
Matt

Mountains

I'm certainly not an expert by any means, but it is my understanding that plants are not considered sentient beings. Plants, by their nature, are not self-aware (the definition of sentience), and so cutting down a tree is not the same as killing a sentient being. If someone told you that, and you wanted to carry that to the extreme, you'd die, because you couldn't eat a carrot or a grain of rice for the same reason you can't cut down a tree. There's nothing wrong with honoring the spirit of a tree or anything else, but I don't see it as "killing" per se. I'm sure others will chime in with more insights.

Mtns

PS: FWIW, bacteria are technically plants, so using antibiotics against them is no more karmically bad than eating a salad

aMatt

Matt,

Your empathy is wonderful! That you even consider the life of the tree is proof positive that your heart is open and working. Just because you feel compassion toward something, does not mean you should let it endanger you, your house or your family. If you wish to honor the tree perhaps you could keep it in your mind and let yourself feel loss. Maybe get a piece carved to keep on your alter? Having a reminder that sometimes we have to make difficult decisions could help you immeasurably.

With warmth,

Matt

Thao

I understand how you feel about the tree. We have had to cut down some trees that were a danger to the house, being that they are the type that break easily in the ice storms that we get here. It is never easy to cut down a large tree. For some reason I think of them as being sentient beings. I think there is awareness in everything, but that is just my own feeling, one not based on facts. I think you can just say a prayer in regards to the tree, tell it you are sorry. I know, I am a tree hugger that has to cut down trees now and then and who pulls up little baby ones in order to have a yard. It is hard to consider them as a vegetable.

Mountains

I have some trees on my property that I refer to as my Ents. Two of them are white oaks that somehow missed the repeated clear cutting of southern Virginia that happened over the past 125 years or so. One in particular is probably close to 200' high, with a totally straight run of central trunk that you almost never see anymore (they used to make the main masts of sailing ships out of trees like this one). It's hard to stand in their presence and not feel their spirit. They're magnificent beings.

Malaise8

I always think that if I will feel bad about something, then it isn't good and I try to figure out what to root of the negative emotion is. But sometimes life happens and none of us are enlightened yet (unless some of you are hehe). If you honestly look at the situation you will probably find that the reason you cut down the tree is becuase of your desire to keep your house the way it is (this is most probably why you are feeling bad about it, because your desire has culivated some negative kamma). But like I said, it is a long jouney to enlightenment and I am not sure if I'm willing to stop paying my car insurance quite yet either =/ . The tree will go into it's own cycle of things, the tree is impernanent just as everything else, so just let it be. Don't get caught up in a situation when you have an attachment to the tree and suffer becuase you have to let it go... cause that wouldn't make any sence. Things like this always make me reflect on the strong wish humans have of keeping things the way they are and keeping things permanent. It's so sadly ironic once you KNOW that nothing can ever be permanent, and that view will only create suffering. Humans are funny creatures.

zombiegirl

the house i grew up in from birth to age 6 had a very large mulberry tree in the front yard. one of my favorite things to do was to pick mulberries with my father who would bring out his ladder and help me get them from the lowest branch. i remember picking an entire basket, but eating more than half before we even made it inside

after we moved out of this house when i was 6, we still lived in town. i have this memory of one day driving past my old house and seeing that the new inhabitants had cut down several branches from the tree, including the one i used to be able to pick from. i was so upset, i remember telling my mother, "what if someone did that to you? came up and cut your arms off???" and she sort of laughed at me while pretending to take me seriously and told me it wasn't like that. but i was still very upset for my tree.

when i think back, i wonder if i was really just worried about the tree or upset because i had such great memories of the tree and spending time with my father. my suffering was probably more about impermanence than anything.

whiterabbit

Thanks for all your helpful responses. Sorry it took me awhile to send my thanks, I've been out of town. I will take all your thoughts into consideration.

Best,
Matt

Chrysalid

Mountains wrote: »

It's hard to stand in their presence and not feel their spirit. They're magnificent beings.

I don't mean to be rude here, but that is attachment. You've given the plant not only a name and form in your mind so that it is seen as distinct, as we all do, but you've also given it spirit/presence and, no offense intended, that is something that exists only in your mind.

Whiterabbit, why do you feel bad? Did you cut down the tree out of spite or hatred? Was your mind filled with satisfaction as you watched it fall?
It doesn't sound like it, in which case the only bad karma you are generating is from the guilt you feel now.

We need to accept that we can't go through life without harming anything, what we can do is go through life without causing harm with malicious intent.
A tree close to the house not only poses a threat to the roof, it's roots will be drying out the foundations causing potential subsidence. A strong wind could cause it to fall into your house smashing windows and potentially causing injury. If it is very tall it stands a greater chance of being hit my lightning and setting your house on fire.
Removing the tree is a sensible, non-malicious act. As would be destroying termites that are eating your structure.

Having compassion is a wonderful attribute, and exercising that compassion by not killing with malice or for pleasure is skillful. Allowing compassion to develop into attachment which causes guilt is unskillful.

Oh, and bacteria aren't plants. They aren't animals either, but killing them to stop them making you and others sick isn't a source of negative karma, IMO anyway.

Thao

I certainly kill ticks when i find them on my body. my husband and i have both had tick fever that actually stays in the body forever, or so they say. i try to not spray the yard much because i love other insects. we had to kill carpenter bees because they were eating the wood in our house. i don't like killing anything, but sometimes it happens that it isn't easy to live otherwise.

i know what you mean zombiegirl. many years ago i drove by our house that we had remodeled. it had been maybe three years since we left. my herb garden was gone, all barren ground, and not far away from my once garden, they were raising roosters in little cages, to fight no doubt. Not even the house was the same. I left in tears. Impermance. now i feel more for those roosters.

Jeffrey

I think I read once that the trees themselves weren't considered sentient. Rather they believed spirits lived in the trees. A teacher gave a practice of wishing the sentient beings that no home is permanent and that (they will be) is ok.

whiterabbit

Thanks for the additional replies and insight. Chrysalid I have to say I found your response most helpful and reasonable. I am also very pleased to have the tree gone and I don't believe I made a mistake. I do feel sad to kill such a long-lived and magnificent plant but as has been said, allowances must be made for the realities of life.