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Stephen Hawking has really started it now!

MountainsMountains Veteran
edited September 2010 in General Banter
Stephen Hawking: God didn't create universe

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/02/hawking.god.universe/index.html?hpt=C1

I shudder to think what the "Christians" are going to say about this...

Mtns

Comments

  • username_5username_5
    edited September 2010
    I have seen this reported in a couple places today. I dunno what all the buzz is about. Einstein figured out there was no need for a creator deity when he proved matter and energy were the same thing in different forms and we got the law of conservation of matter and energy.

    Fully explains where the matter and energy that were the big bang 'came from' in a way that relies only upon naturalistic rather than supernatural 'forces'.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited September 2010
    my girlfriend and i were visiting her very conservative southern baptist parents today and just as we were leaving... i saw this article on the computer her step-dad was looking at and thought, "RRRUUNN!!!!" haha.

    we made it out in time. whew.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited September 2010
    username_5 wrote: »
    I have seen this reported in a couple places today. I dunno what all the buzz is about. Einstein figured out there was no need for a creator deity

    Einstein has been dead for 55 years, and he didn't write a book denying the need for "God" that's splashed all over CNN and the world media. That's the difference.

    Mtns
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2010
    username_5 wrote: »
    Einstein figured out there was no need for a creator deity when he proved matter and energy were the same thing in different forms and we got the law of conservation of matter and energy.

    I hesitate to say this, but many quotations previously attributed to Einstein have actually no reliable link, source or verifiable literature to prove he actually ever said them.

    However, it does seem to have set the Miaow amongst the coos....
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    edited September 2010
    I really do listen to everything this man has to say and have done for many years. I think he truly does have one of the most intelligent minds ever. But, saying that, the smart thing to do would be to not publish such a finding maybe as it would not cause so many negative reactions.. Einstein once said that he would trade his intellect to be happy and peaceful in his later years, he went on to say that such intellect is useless if you are unhappy and things of this nature.
    I have heard many physicists state that there is a god but it is not an all knowing super powerful being, they do not know what it is but they conclude there is such a thing.. This however does not effect the path to enlightenment and peace in my opinion :)
  • DogStarDogStar
    edited September 2010
    As an enthusiastic reader of Hawking, string theory and cosmology I feel the need to point out that there are (an admittedly small number of) cosmologists and astro-physicists who hold Christian, Buddhist and alchemical sympathies and they see no conundrum there whatsoever.
    I don't think that "isms" or "ists" play any real significance in the search for ultimate reality.
    Universally, most thinkers support the Big Bang theory.
    As to its cause -
    fill in the (Blank) of your choice.
    Only the string theorists "go where Angels fear to tread" and they're not as universally popular as they'd like to think and string theory, dark matter and dark energy are under a great deal of attack from the general scientific populace who posit that much of their reasoning is a mis-reading of available data.
    Ain't the Universe grand? :)
  • username_5username_5
    edited September 2010
    federica wrote: »
    I hesitate to say this, but many quotations previously attributed to Einstein have actually no reliable link, source or verifiable literature to prove he actually ever said them.

    However, it does seem to have set the Miaow amongst the coos....

    I know there are many false Einstein quotes, but I am not referring to any quote, I am referring to the law of conservation of matter and energy which is his baby. Matter and energy are the same thing in different forms and it can't be CREATED or destroyed, only it's form can change.

    From this law the 'eternalness' of energy and matter can be inferred.

    Another way to look at it is this:

    A person who believes a creator was necessary in order for the big bang to have occurred would assert that the matter and energy that exploded into all that is has to have an origin. It couldn't have come from nothing.

    A counter argument would be 'what created God?' The typical answer is nothing created God, God has always existed and is outside time/space.

    The scientific answer post law of conservation of matter and energy is the same. Matter and energy exist outside of time/space (matter/energy CREATE time and space) and they always existed and always will, only their form changes.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited September 2010
    I absolutely agree that there is no fundamental conflict between beliefs and science. I've thought that ever since I was intellectually mature enough to contemplate such things. I think Hawking's mistake here is going out of his way to state his beliefs in the way he apparently has, given how polarized the world is today in almost anything related to science and religion. It's one thing to hold a set of beliefs, but it's another to come out and basically say that a large chunk of the world is wrong about theirs. That's gotten us in to a big mess in so many ways these days in almost every aspect of life.

    Mtns
  • username_5username_5
    edited September 2010
    Mountains wrote: »
    I absolutely agree that there is no fundamental conflict between beliefs and science.

    Well, let's reason about this. If the belief is that a=b and science (evidence) says a != b then there is a conflict.

    In a real world situation if a belief is that the earth is 6,000 years old and the evidence says it is 4.5 billion years old there is a conflict.

    Buddhist texts say (somewhere) that the sun revolves around the earth. The Bible says the same thing. One can believe this to be true, but the evidence says it's the other way around. There is a conflict.

    Perhaps you meant to say something else and it came out differently than you intended?

    While I agree that there is no reason to take an 'in your face' approach to speaking the truth, I also don't see any reason to put a belief with no evidence on the same level as a belief with a lot of evidence supporting it.
  • sandysandy Explorer
    edited September 2010
    ThailandTom wrote: »
    I really do listen to everything this man has to say and have done for many years. I think he truly does have one of the most intelligent minds ever. But, saying that, the smart thing to do would be to not publish such a finding maybe as it would not cause so many negative reactions.. Einstein once said that he would trade his intellect to be happy and peaceful in his later years, he went on to say that such intellect is useless if you are unhappy and things of this nature.
    I have heard many physicists state that there is a god but it is not an all knowing super powerful being, they do not know what it is but they conclude there is such a thing.. This however does not effect the path to enlightenment and peace in my opinion :)
    An aside from present conversation: if you haven't already, check out Richard Feynman. I really enjoyed his book Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman.

    Back to discussion.
    Mountains wrote:
    I think Hawking's mistake here is going out of his way to state his beliefs in the way he apparently has, given how polarized the world is today in almost anything related to science and religion. It's one thing to hold a set of beliefs, but it's another to come out and basically say that a large chunk of the world is wrong about theirs. That's gotten us in to a big mess in so many ways these days in almost every aspect of life.
    I'm probably reading a bit too far into this but I wonder, given his physical state and illness, if he feels this was something he needed to personally do for himself, whether we feel the action was wrong or not. I just see it as another ripple in the pool of religion vs science that's been going on for centuries, and will probably continue to do so for a long time.
  • DogStarDogStar
    edited September 2010
    sandy wrote: »
    An aside from present conversation: if you haven't already, check out Richard Feynman. I really enjoyed his book Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman.

    Back to discussion.


    I'm probably reading a bit too far into this but I wonder, given his physical state and illness, if he feels this was something he needed to personally do for himself, whether we feel the action was wrong or not. I just see it as another ripple in the pool of religion vs science that's been going on for centuries, and will probably continue to do so for a long time.

    G'day Sandy :)

    Love your posts, Most thoughtful!
    Also LOVE the Dalek!
    Cheers Mate!
    Dog Star.
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