Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
The Zen of Contemplating God?
Seph
Veteran
I've been told that most Buddhists have happily and willingly moved away from Theistic religion. I've also been told that Buddhists do not contemplate what cannot be known – and God cannot be known.
I can't help but wonder this on a few levels. Firstly, I need to ask what does 'moving away from Theistic religion' really mean? I had always believed there are not only two positions. It doesn't have to be a question of either Theism or Atheism. I believe there is also Non-Theism.
Mu.
I've also read that students of Zen concentrate for years on koans as a method attaining enlightenment. I wonder if Buddhists spend time focusing on koans too?
If so, I've come to wonder whether contemplating God could in itself act as a koan?
Personally, attempting to 'find' God, attempting to define God is a practice that has no solution. Attempting to understand the incomprehensible would seem to be a fruitless endeavor, but only if we are searching for a definitive answer. If we practice to understand the incomprehensible as a journey, it can become a koan of sorts.
Admittedly, I've never really looked at it from this point of view, but I think I've practiced it for years. A summation of my experiences could be to say witnessing the repeated death and rebirth of “God” - continually. Repeatedly shattering my images and concepts of God.
To-understand-the-incomprehensible is my koan.
The Zen of Contemplating God.
...interesting thoughts...
...I wonder...
I can't help but wonder this on a few levels. Firstly, I need to ask what does 'moving away from Theistic religion' really mean? I had always believed there are not only two positions. It doesn't have to be a question of either Theism or Atheism. I believe there is also Non-Theism.
Mu.
I've also read that students of Zen concentrate for years on koans as a method attaining enlightenment. I wonder if Buddhists spend time focusing on koans too?
If so, I've come to wonder whether contemplating God could in itself act as a koan?
Personally, attempting to 'find' God, attempting to define God is a practice that has no solution. Attempting to understand the incomprehensible would seem to be a fruitless endeavor, but only if we are searching for a definitive answer. If we practice to understand the incomprehensible as a journey, it can become a koan of sorts.
Admittedly, I've never really looked at it from this point of view, but I think I've practiced it for years. A summation of my experiences could be to say witnessing the repeated death and rebirth of “God” - continually. Repeatedly shattering my images and concepts of God.
To-understand-the-incomprehensible is my koan.
The Zen of Contemplating God.
...interesting thoughts...
...I wonder...
0
Comments
When a sentence or thought begins with 'most Buddhists...' I have come to see it's almost always wrong
You statements strike me as being both wise and beside the point at the same time. Wise in that you recognize that a point of view is just that, a point of view. It's not the 'correct' point of view, nor is it wrong. It's the view from a single vantage point. It's beside the point in that atheism-theism-whateverism are of no importance other than what we assign them and the importance we assign them are from our own point of view which is nothing more or less than a single point of view. It's not the correct view or the wrong view, it's a single point of view.
Zen is a school within the Buddhism umbrella. As a rule we find different practices like different points of view. We choose from what is available to us, do our best to benefit ourselves and others from what we choose and if/when we find our choice has run it's course of value, we make a change. Perhaps we start with Zen, then move on to this and then that and then die. Perhaps we start with zen and stay with it. Perhaps we start with zen, move on to this and then that and then back to zen and then we die. It doesn't really matter. We are all seekers on a path. As a rule we support each other, recognizing that some of us need to spend time on detours that others do not and vice versa. We are all trying to get to the same place and we need to work things out for ourselves. Part of the seeker's path is that we have a strong distaste for authoritative dogma. We need to find our own answers and feel their truth resonate in our bones before we believe them wholeheartedly.
YES!
Is god square or is God round?
I agree.
Above I said your statement was both wise and beside the point at the same time. Here is say your statement simply seems wise. And I sincerely hope you find your answer.
Thank you. You're response was encouraging.
Buddhism, including Zen, is not about God. It isn't theistic nor atheistic.
Probably because I am a music teacher, but I always compare trying to make God and Buddhism fit as a bit like trying to use a guitar pick to play piano, or studying trumpet technique hoping to become a master harp player.
Regarding Zen, and maybe more in the Soto variety...You do zazen without any preconceived ideas or expectations. You just sit in awareness.
The truth after all is the truth, and ultimately will be self-evident so long as you can get your own opinions and pre-conceived ideas out of the way.
So for me I would advise against contemplating God or anything else for that matter.
Just sit. Drop opinions and conceptual ideas and see what is there, and was all along.
Just my opinion though and i'm no Zen master by any means!!!!
Good, you are willing to learn. You are open to new things. This is good.
This is openness.
Very gracious and kind of you. You perceived you may have caused offense and you did not have so much pride that you couldn't simply apologize for any wrong you may have committed even if unintentionally.
This is grace and an expression of your ability to empathize. Both are noble.
This is true, but it is also defensive. This points to the existence of an ego that is alive and well and standing in your way on your path. You are not defending yourself because there is no permanent self to defend, there is only the perception of self (ego) to defend and you defended it.
Do not be dismayed or defensive. It's normal and quite OK. Your koan now is 'ask your Zen teacher'.
You are very welcome. Thank you for your gracious and kind response. May you be well and may you find what you are looking for.
I don't have a Zen teacher!
I think I understand. Perhaps your koan is just a version of an older one:
"If there is a God but no one believes in God, is there a God?"
or
"If God still speaks but no is listening, does it make a sound?"