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Bad experience
Hi all,
I have made another mistake which i would like to share / or maybe get some opinions on how to salvate the situation,
I am a buddhist but i went to those sleezy KTV louges with those freelance gals who sit with you for tips, one gals seat beside me and because we ordered beer, i ask her to drink, she pick up a empty cup and had 2 glasses with my friends, after that she went off to other rooms, when she came back, she was very drunk and wanted to drink somemore, i told her to drink water but she refused and wanted some more beer, we gave her a bit, after which she wanted to vomit and i escorted her to the toilet, after coming back, ahe wanted to go other room to collect $, afterwhich we left the place.
During the trip back, i started feeling guilty for asking her to drink which could have made her drunk, i call her and she say she is alright, but i still feel not good as i start imagine what could happen to her when we left like could she have been raped or get hiv, could i be indirect involed.
Eversince, this has badly affected my life living in guilt and fear of bad karma, and feel i am responsible if anything happen. I called her many times to ask her how she is,
Now i understand the importance of the 5 precept, and why we should not drink at all, it will make a people say some things without careful consideration and regret terribly later
Before i went there i thought drinking is okay if you know your limit and can control your action, now then i know when you drink, you could unknowingly ask someone to drink with you
This is the lesson i learnt, now i have to leave in guilt
I have made another mistake which i would like to share / or maybe get some opinions on how to salvate the situation,
I am a buddhist but i went to those sleezy KTV louges with those freelance gals who sit with you for tips, one gals seat beside me and because we ordered beer, i ask her to drink, she pick up a empty cup and had 2 glasses with my friends, after that she went off to other rooms, when she came back, she was very drunk and wanted to drink somemore, i told her to drink water but she refused and wanted some more beer, we gave her a bit, after which she wanted to vomit and i escorted her to the toilet, after coming back, ahe wanted to go other room to collect $, afterwhich we left the place.
During the trip back, i started feeling guilty for asking her to drink which could have made her drunk, i call her and she say she is alright, but i still feel not good as i start imagine what could happen to her when we left like could she have been raped or get hiv, could i be indirect involed.
Eversince, this has badly affected my life living in guilt and fear of bad karma, and feel i am responsible if anything happen. I called her many times to ask her how she is,
Now i understand the importance of the 5 precept, and why we should not drink at all, it will make a people say some things without careful consideration and regret terribly later
Before i went there i thought drinking is okay if you know your limit and can control your action, now then i know when you drink, you could unknowingly ask someone to drink with you
This is the lesson i learnt, now i have to leave in guilt
0
Comments
Did you go to that sangha/community in Singapore like I suggested?
You have excessive guilt over sex and a mechanistic and incorrect view of karma. I suggest you go to a psychiatrist to deal with the excessive guilt and to that congregation in Singapore to get a correct concept of karma.
And don't go to boom-boom bars.
2. There is no point in worrying excessively about past actions, they can't be undone. If you phoned her and she said she is ok, then she is ok, accept that.
3. Rather than sitting feeling guilty, just learn from your mistakes. Don't go to "boom-boom bars", and don't offer people alcoholic drinks if it makes you feel bad.
Thanks for always reply to my post, i am touched, but i have no gone to the buddhist place you mentioned, but i think i could really be suffering from depression, for my old incident i saw a pyschriatic but he told me that my is a small matter no need medicine
Now it seems to got worst after the boom boom incident, i now think that i will be made drunk in my next life, or raped, or get hiv..so scared
I no sure if my concept of karma is right as many i consulted seems to have different views
For my this action of asking the lady to drink, so get i am no in the wrong, so say as a buddhist i am wrong, so many different views
I think i must get rid of my guilt and move forword, hopefulllly i will not feel guilty forever which is fear
Well said. ....and seconded.
I would guess that you may have accidentally minimized your symptoms to the psychiatrist, because, in my opinion, the obsessional and ruminative quality of the guilt I see here just screams of treatable depression. So I urge you to go to the psychiatrist and tell him/her all your symptoms in great detail. There's just too much guilt going on here and it's too obsessional. I'm not saying you are bullshitting, Bob, but this looks like a bad depression to me, and I've lived bad depression and I've observed bad depression as a psychiatric nurse. OPINION.
And as for you not having gone to that place in Singapore that I told you about, I will just say that that pisses me off. That lama, Tsem Tulku, seems to have a really good gig going on, and has lived life well enough to know how things really are (he wasn't discovered as a tulku till he was in his 20's). I would give my left testicle to have a sangha like that to go to and a lama like that to discuss things with.
And, for about the thousandth time, your concept of karma is must too "transactional", much too "this-for-that" in nature, and that's just incorrect. You need someone like Tsem Tulku to straighten that out for you, to help understand it correctly and to deal with it. Tsem Tulku's personal history seems to indicate to me that he would understand the interaction between psychiatry and Vajrayana practice and would be able to help you in a big way and it pisses me off that you haven't gone.
"Now it seems to got worst after the boom boom incident, i now think that i will be made drunk in my next life, or raped, or get hiv..so scared..."
If that isn't psychiatrist material, I don't know what is. And after/while you get over the depression, you need to arrive at a correct concept of karma and how it works. Karma is mindstream, not "this-for-that", and it seems to me that you could do with some serious mindstream work.
Call this "tough love", Bob. I don't know what else to say. I think I may be done with this because I'm out of suggestions. If you don't go to Tsem Tulku or to some sangha in Singapore, then all I can say is that this really pisses me off and I think it's bullshit.
Karma is really about what happens in your mind and heart rather than in the external world. If you want to worry about karma, think about how much we have tried to help you and what the karmic implications of that might be. There is the whole concept of "the precious human existence in a time when the Teachings of the Buddha are available". You came and asked for help from a group of sincere seekers, and you have not respected the advice of those sincere seekers. Maybe you will be reborn as a hungry ghost because you didn't listen to the words of the Buddha when they were available. You have Tsem Tulku's sangha to go to in Singapore but you choose to go to boom-boom bars instead. What are the karmic implications of that?
I'm not sure how familiar you are with Buddhist teachings, but hearing your story, there seems to be some things you are not clear about. First, the precepts are merely a guide. They are not laws, or commandments set in stone. If you break a precept you will not be struck down by an angry Buddha, or damned to eternal hell. I can tell you as an American Buddhist, many people have a hard time with this concept because most of us have been brought up on the Judeo-Christian traditions, which teach otherwise. Also, the Buddha never spoke about reincarnation or being reborn. In fact, this was something that he was trying to break away from, as he felt the religions in India at the time were not helpful to the masses, and reinforced the terrible cast system in place there. Simply put, Karma means action implying a consequence. That consequence will be good, bad or indifferent. What's more important to note is the intent behind that action. Your intention was not to harm this woman, so the karma created can not be bad. Also as someone pointed out, we all have free will. It was her choice to consume alcohol. When you are in this kind of a situation and are unsure if you are doing something wrong, it is best to use a mindfulness approach. Ask yourself the question "Will my actions cause suffering to myself, or someone else?" If the answer is yes, then don't do it. It's as simple as that. There is no use in feeling guilty. Guilt only serves to make us feel bad, and it never brings us closer to any point of clarity. I hope this was helpful to you.
i actually have been to a pyschriatic and he told me mine is a small matter and i ask him if i needed medicine he say no need, i went ot see him before this incident, as for sangha i have seen many and many have different interpretation of karma that why i am confused too.
It is true most of them tell about intention especially thervanda, but thervanda say karma cannot be purified can be overcome by doing more good deeds while viyajana say karma can be purified. This makes me quite confused
I am scared if i ask her to drink time did i have any bad intention, but i am sure i did no force her to drink through my bodily action and i just say something like "lets drink". I also did not really care to ask if she can drink, is it wrong
I will try to go to the place you mentioned, i actually have gone to another tibetan who gave me a cause and effect book whick is quite scarely as it say something like u do this you will get this kind of thing
It is related to my earlier post, i felt guitly to ask the person to drink, as a result, recently it was mooncke festival in my country, my friend send me a greeting sms and i forwared to her to wish her well.
After forwarding, i notice there is a sentence saying "use a persistent heart for pursueing your career" . I suddenly felt if she read this and got more serious in her Job as a bar waitress, drinking and waiting on guys, i would have done sometime wrong again.
I called her saying i send wrongly, she say nevermind and she is busy
I scare she may misunderstand and i try to call her again but her phone is off.
Later i realise she has gone back to her country
1) Do you all think this is bad karma if she become more serious in her job because of my message as i had good intention but i was careless in scanning the message before sending
2) is this consider persuading someone to do a bad livelihood job and also cause harm to her?
As for responsibility, as individuals, we are responsible for our own actions.
We are not responsible for other peoples actions. However, we may give our advice if welcomed and people may accept our advice and act on it if they wish.
These are just basic rules, and none of us are perfect. Some times we forget to help.
Especially when intoxicated.
I guess we must accept what we can not change and just remember for the next time we are in a similar situation.
As for Boom Boom Bars, I live in a place where there are none of these.
So, hard to comment. Probably not the best place to pick up nice girls or to develop a spiritual life...lol.
The girls who work at these places do so at their own choice, and if you try to help, it may not please them with your interfering. So may get you into trouble.
Good sign though that you want to help.
As for drinking and Boom Boom Bars...
Please keep in mind.
Not all circumstances are equal for cultivating a spiritual life.
Boom Boom bars probably not the best place, unless their would be more
Boom Boom Buddha's out there...lol
I hope she can think independently, just afraid she may take this job seriously as a career as a result of my message.
Anywhere i am quite bother and i will be seeing a pyschiatric this friday, hope all will be well
Sometimes you must let people decide for themselves, even if you can see from the outside that they are hurting themselves.
I have experience of this, as I have watched many people become very ill through the use of hard drugs and alcohol.
Offer your help if you are really concerned, but if they do not take your offer, there is nothing you can do.
You can not live her life for her.
Try Thought Stopping and Thought Replacement! CBT Technique.
http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/livingwithpd/ht/ThoughtStop.htm
This really does help, and the more you do it, the less worried you will become, as the technique has been proven over time to change the balance of Neurotransmitters in the brain.
I have a few friendly suggestions I would like to make.
First of all be honest when you go.You cannot get the help that you need if you lie to your heathcare professionals.
He/she won't think you are being stupid for what you feel.
Secondly-change your user name.You are just reinforcing your guilt trip.
Call yourself happy chappy or some thing else up lifting.
Guilt is a terrible burden to carry around with you.I know this mate because between the ages of 17-19 I felt that I had been responsible for the deaths of 3 people.
One girl I had given marijuana to for the first time and she eventually died of a heroin overdose.One was murdered by a gang that was looking for me.I had skipped the country 3 hours before they found where I was living,and one the police had a hunch some of my friends had killed(never proven and I was never told by my friends)because he had tried to shoot me.
The 2 girls deaths really affected me badly and there were times I would just start crying.Eventually though I realised that the first girl would have got her first spliff from someone else if I hadn't given it to her.
The second girl was with us because she loved the life style and I had asked her and my other mates to come with me that day.I knew some one was going to die if we didn't get out of the country and go somewhere where we did not have a reputation to live up to.
It was a Tibetan nun who told me that guilt was a stupid emotion(not saying you are stupid)that drags us down,and told me it was ok to REGRET some of the things that had happened in my past and move on.Gotta tell you mate,her advice worked.
Dump this guilt at the psychiatrists office and move on.Hell dude we'll be here to help ya.Right good people of the forum.
Bob is in Singapore and I see you're in Malaysia. Are you cloistered in that hermitage? Do you have any specific suggestions for sangha for Bob since you're in the neighborhood?
Hey, "Going Forth", the stuff you have written above is really useful, personal experiances can really help people who are struggling with guilt and worry.
Explaining how you overcome the problems are also invaluable, as the same appoach can often be used by others who have similar problems.
I think that "Guiltly" has most problems with guilt although it also sounds like you could also be suffering from an anxiety disorder such as Generalized Anxiety Disorder.
Relentlessly worrying is the nature of Generalized Anxiety Disorder.
Caused by a neurotransmitter imbalance in the brain.
Some of the symptoms can be relieved with SSRI's / SSNRI's and Benzodiapines.
Although, the medication will not cure the condition, and other therapies are recommended to elviate the symptoms long terms.
These alternative therapies include:
Meditation
Yoga
Tai Chi
Exersize
Body Relaxation
CBT Techniques
Also, examine your diet and eliminate all stimulants from diet, as these will simply make your condition worse.
Coffee
Fizzy Drinks Cola etc.
Regulate Chocolate
Stay away from stimulant drugs such as speed / coke / crystal meths etc. As these are killers for anxiety disorders.
Also note that some of the breakdown products of alcohol have a stimulant effect - which is one of the reasons that people can wake early/sleep badly after having had a few drinks.
It can also cause magnesium deficiency, one symptom of which is anxiety.
I notice myself that if I drink alcohol regularly (not heavily), I am more prone to anxiety attacks and rumination.
Yes I am currently a monk here in Malaysia but will be heading for Thailand after Kathina to a new temple.Visas can be a real hassle here.Not the same respect for the robes.
One of the Sayadaws here is from Singapore and I also have a friend in Singapore who is a mine of information when it comes to monastarys with good teachers so I will speak with both of them and post ant info they may give me as soon as possible.
With metta.
One of my Sayadaws says that this is a good meditation center in Singapore that you may wish to have a look at.
Vipassana Meditation Center
251 Lavender Street Singapore 338789
Tel-(65)6445 3984
Email-vmckm@singnet.com.sg
Resident Monk-Sayadaw U Pannananda:thumbsup:
Good luck buddy