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Is chanting meditation?

edited October 2010 in Meditation
I have been reading (dangerous I know) many books and online articles on Buddhism & meditation.

In some of the stuff I read it implies that chanting is not actual meditation but a mind calming precursor to actual mediation, or that it serves a different purpose altogether.

I have been chanting Om Mani Padme Hum as my meditation, since I have such a hard time with breath meditation.

Am I actually meditating, or just taking the easy road (since I have no trouble with the chanting like I do with breath) and avoiding the discipline required to do zazen like I desire.

I really like the chanting and was using it as a stepping stone to zazen, but if I am just fooling myself that this will actually help or prepare me for zazen I would like to know.

I guess I am asking if I can get the same results from chanting meditation (if it is meditation) as from zazen.

I hope this makes sense.

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Your mind is aware whether you are chanting or doing zazen..

    However chanting is not the same as zazen.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited September 2010
    zenmonkey wrote: »
    I have been reading (dangerous I know) many books and online articles on Buddhism & meditation.

    In some of the stuff I read it implies that chanting is not actual meditation but a mind calming precursor to actual mediation, or that it serves a different purpose altogether.

    It is a type of meditation but it's a complimentary practice, not a replacement.
    I have been chanting Om Mani Padme Hum as my meditation, since I have such a hard time with breath meditation.
    What is the difficulty?
    Am I actually meditating, or just taking the easy road (since I have no trouble with the chanting like I do with breath) and avoiding the discipline required to do zazen like I desire.
    Easy road.
    I really like the chanting and was using it as a stepping stone to zazen, but if I am just fooling myself that this will actually help or prepare me for zazen I would like to know.
    The way to "prepare" for zazen is to do zazen. :)
    I guess I am asking if I can get the same results from chanting meditation (if it is meditation) as from zazen.
    No. ;)
  • edited September 2010
    You guys rock. I love honest answers.

    The problem I have with breath meditation is that instead of focusing on it I end up controlling it then become self conscious of how I am breathing and try to control it by not controlling it and it makes it worse.

    I have seen posts here about others with this issue and will seek out those posts and apply any advice given.

    *waves goodbye to the easy road :)*
  • edited September 2010
    For Nichiren Buddhists, chanting is our primary meditation form; shikan meditation is a supporting practice for us.
  • edited September 2010
    zenmonkey wrote: »
    ......
    I have been chanting Om Mani Padme Hum as my meditation, since I have such a hard time with breath meditation.

    If focussing on the breath is a problem, why not - as a interim measure - try the "buddho" method, and see how it goes. But, I am not too sure whether this method is suitable if your ultimate intention is zazen. See quote below for a very brief description of "buddho" meditation:
    Now, sit in meditation, your right leg on top of left, your hands palm-up in your lap, your right hand on top of your left. Sit straight. Repeat the word buddho in your mind, focusing your attention in the middle of your chest, at the heart. Don't let your attention stray out ahead or behind. Be mindful to keep your mind in place, steady in its one-pointedness, and you'll enter into a state of concentration.

    If this interests you, read the full text on Buddho (by Phra Ajaan Thate Desaransi translated from the Thai by Thanissaro Bhikkhu).

    Wish you well in your meditation practice. :)
  • edited September 2010
    "Is chanting meditation?"

    Sure, and so is pooping, and eating breakfast, and walking your dog, and sleeping.
    There is no meditation and no distraction, the key point is to know your awareness despite any and all actions and conditions. Whether you are on the cushion or running a marathon.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Try sitting down but not meditating. Just sit and be present but don't meditate.
  • edited September 2010
    Chanting and mantra recitation isn't the same as meditation. I know this because I used to do it myself at one time.

    Try this excellent meditation series by Ajahn Jayasaro. This one is the introduction.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7a9Ur2x0o



    Kind regards,

    Dazzle :)


    .
  • edited September 2010
    I fear I have become to attached to becoming a Zen Buddhist and only doing zazen (I don't know why I am so focused on only this) but it seems to be skewing my view and openness to all forms of Buddhism.

    Thanks for the link Dazzle, I have watched it a few times and it is very helpful.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Zazen 'anapanasasti style' is watching the breath at the abdomen with your hands on your lap... correct?
  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited September 2010
    zenmonkey wrote: »
    I have been chanting Om Mani Padme Hum as my meditation, since I have such a hard time with breath meditation.

    :bigclap:

    The sacred mantra of Avalokitesvara is my main mantra practice!
    zenmonkey wrote: »
    I really like the chanting and was using it as a stepping stone to zazen, but if I am just fooling myself that this will actually help or prepare me for zazen I would like to know.

    I don't see anything wrong with this. My take on zazen is that it isn't as difficult as people make it seem. All practice is valuable; it's about finding what works for you. Maybe you start with mantra recitation, try working in some simple sitting meditation, and go from there.

    It's your journey, the path is the goal :)
  • edited September 2010
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> “At some Zen centers, the practice of mentally repeating a mantra with the breath is used in place of counting breaths for beginners.”

    I read this and looked for links and found a Soham website that describes what I think is the method referenced in the first sentence.

    While I understand the best way to practice for zazen is to do zazen, I am thinking that this might help me initially until I become comfortable with my breath.

    Is the Soham method what is being talked about?
    I found something that said Om Mani Padme Hum is too long to use to correspond with in & out breath.

    I am sorry for constantly revisiting this issue, but it is gnawing at my monkey mind :)


    Thanks for all the previous replies
  • edited September 2010
    You can us OM for the in breath, AH for the pause, and HUM for the out breath if you want to tie mantra and sacred sounds to breathing.
  • edited September 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    Chanting and mantra recitation isn't the same as meditation.


    .

    Mantra recitation is a form of meditation, if done correctly it contains nearly all other practices.
  • edited September 2010
    Hey Zen Monkey : )

    I understand why you feel confused, these days we're flooded with information, but most of it is untested regurgitation. This I'm sure many on this forum would agree with.

    In short, my zen monkey friend, you can use any of the 6 sense bases to develop stillness naturally. Every type of training is a pre-cursor to insight meditation. You first observe an object and not too hard or too soft let thought rest in an almost peripheral awareness as the primary gentle focus stays with whatever your chosen object of attention is. This is to purify the mind or clean your microscope for clearer viewing.

    The next stage goes in to observing clearly the nature of what is! This is where having overcome a wandering mind and now being clear of pre-conception, you can meet life anew, ready to know what it really is directly.

    So as you can see, samadhi states, and higher levels of stillness are only meant for developing realisation, they aren't going to free you from self perpetuated suffering because the state is still caught in causes and conditions. You use the clear mind developed from mantra; breathing, hearing, looking, etc to observe directly.

    This is where books start to become what it should be, an invitation to investigation : ))))

    Hope that helps : )))) Best of luck on your continuing development.
  • robotrobot Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Sorry but the ad is kind of cheesy Sort of like a pop-up. Maybe its because i'm new here:skeptical
  • edited September 2010
    hahahaha, feedback welcome, I'm actually new to sharing my books rather than just giving advice, so that really helped. I've changed the wording a little because I think you're right. : ) Cheers robot.
  • edited October 2010
    zenmonkey wrote: »
    I have been reading (dangerous I know) many books and online articles on Buddhism & meditation.

    In some of the stuff I read it implies that chanting is not actual meditation but a mind calming precursor to actual mediation, or that it serves a different purpose altogether.

    I have been chanting Om Mani Padme Hum as my meditation, since I have such a hard time with breath meditation.

    Am I actually meditating, or just taking the easy road (since I have no trouble with the chanting like I do with breath) and avoiding the discipline required to do zazen like I desire.

    I really like the chanting and was using it as a stepping stone to zazen, but if I am just fooling myself that this will actually help or prepare me for zazen I would like to know.

    I guess I am asking if I can get the same results from chanting meditation (if it is meditation) as from zazen.

    I hope this makes sense.

    Hi Zenmonkey, chanting will lead to authentic meditation... it is a very solid path. Many masters will recommend chanting to a sufficient degree before meditation. But when chanting, maintain mindfulness. Don't let your mind run around without control. Mindfulness itself is a quality that even most people who practise meditation solely are unable to achieve. You can do it with your recitation of the mani mantra...

    You can chant all the time even when travelling to work etc... there have been cases of people receiving realisations through chanting as chanting brings blessings of the Buddhas.

    The mani mantra is truly a wish-fulfilling gem, it creates vast merit, opens your heart, and purifies bad karma. Rejoice that you are doing this wonderful practice.

    Remember to have (1) a proper Bodhichitta motivation and (2) dedicate your merits properly. This two points together with (3) mindfulness during your practice, make the 3 excellences with which one can obtain Buddhahood. Anything less than these 3 factors will be insufficient, anything more than these 3 is not necessary.

    This thread has some teachings on the mani mantra
    http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7202
  • ansannaansanna Veteran
    edited October 2010
    the objective of Buddhism is not mediation, but enable to enter samadhi , the deepest part of our consciousness, and able us to see the reality as it is and obtain the Buddha wisdom.

    sitting, chanting, visualization, ritual and others are just means or method to unlock this door of ours in Buddha Dharma
  • edited October 2010
    You can chant all the time even when travelling to work etc... there have been cases of people receiving realisations through chanting as chanting brings blessings of the Buddhas.

    Remember to have (1) a proper Bodhichitta motivation and (2) dedicate your merits properly. This two points together with (3) mindfulness during your practice, make the 3 excellences with which one can obtain Buddhahood. Anything less than these 3 factors will be insufficient, anything more than these 3 is not necessary.

    Thank you for your reply & encouragement. I do occasionally chant mentally when in a place with others present (gym, work) and out loud when in my car driving somewhere (chanting along with a youtube video on my ipod).

    I like doing this but it feels "sacrilegious" if you take my meaning. It feels hollow since I am actually doing something else (driving, rowing, treadmill etc) instead of focusing on the mantra, so I stopped doing it in those situations.

    I don't quite understand what you mean in the second part of the quote above (I don't really understand merits, even with some internet research) but I feel it may have something to do with what I mentioned above.

    If you or someone could expand on / explain exactly what you mean in the first two of the three points you made I would appreciate it.

    Thank you so much to all who have replied.
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