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Koran burning people, fundamental extremists, republicans, etc. etc.
seeker242
ZenFlorida, USA Veteran
Regarding Koran burning people, fundamental extremists, republicans, George Bush, or any other person(s) that does or believes things that you don't like or don't agree with. What do you all think of the following?
He who treads the path in earnest
Sees not the mistakes of the world;
If we find fault with others
We ourselves are also in the wrong.
When other people are in the wrong, we should ignore it,
For it is wrong for us to find fault.
By getting rid of the habit of faultfinding
We cut off a source of defilement.
~Dajian Huineng, 6th Chan Patriarch
He who treads the path in earnest
Sees not the mistakes of the world;
If we find fault with others
We ourselves are also in the wrong.
When other people are in the wrong, we should ignore it,
For it is wrong for us to find fault.
By getting rid of the habit of faultfinding
We cut off a source of defilement.
~Dajian Huineng, 6th Chan Patriarch
0
Comments
agreed.
I would agree somewhat. However, I think that there is a huge difference between finding fault with acts of people as opposed to finding faults with the people that commit those acts.
I think yes regarding Hitler as a person, but not his actions, no. Because like you said, ignoring it is like inviting tyranny and lots of suffering. I think it is possible to not find faults with others but still behave in a manner that reduces public wrongs, by pointing out faulty actions, but not faulty people.
Good point!:bowdown:
Of course I think it would be rude to point out or discriminate against somebody because of flaws in their personality or thinking, but to ignore them would blind us to a part of human nature and cut us off from a source of learning. IMO.
Mtns
I agree with Seeker in that Dick Cheney(to use your example, not to be political) as a human being has Buddha nature. He may have done great wrong (and again I am simply agreeing with you for discussion, not taking a political position) and the wrong that was done I think fair to label as wrong or to point to the harm of the actions, but I think it important to not allow ourselves to unmindfully allow hatred in ourselves toward any person regardless of what they have done.
In other words, even Dick Cheney (or Adolph Hitler) have innate Buddha nature. Helping people to uncover it is generally not successful when expressed hatred is the tool employed.
So, I agree with the quote in the OP as it regards our view of other people, but I wouldn't extend my agreement to actual actions and their observable effects. There is right action and wrong action, but not right people and wrong people
It sounds all wise and Zenny and whatnot, but fuck that shit. If somebody's actin' a fool and needs to be called out on their bs, then so be it. As long as I can be open to the same criticism when I'm in the wrong, then I see no reason not to try and make the world a better place.
Excellent advice, Chrysalid.
before agree or disagree to the above we have to think where we stand
if our aim is doing worldly good and bad it is fair to disagree
if our aim is enlightenment then we have to agree completely
For my part, I think both are possible. One doesn't have to completely detach themselves from the world in order to seek awakening. Even in the suttas, lay-followers, including kings, attained awakening while living a worldly life.
Compassion is an important part of the practice; compassion is the desire to relieve the suffering of others, and to act on that desire when possible. Doing worldly good and awakening aren't mutual exclusive.
Mtns
The question I have to you and others is, ultimately, why does dick cheny do those things and why is he the way he is? The only answer I can come up with is ignorance. And then I think, can you really blame someone for being ignorant? Who would willingly choose to be ignorant? The only answer I can come up with on that question is: No one would. It's not his fault he is trapped in the burning fires of Samsara, enduring and creating suffering for millions.
:::Jason::It sounds all wise and Zenny and whatnot, but fuck that shit. If somebody's actin' a fool and needs to be called out on their bs, then so be it. As long as I can be open to the same criticism when I'm in the wrong, then I see no reason not to try and make the world a better place.
ROFL. You have a way with words, God Emperor.
I agree with you and Chrysalid to an extent, with one caveat: Just as long as doing so does not arouse anger, hostility, dislike, aversion, or ill-will in your mind. I think that is the whole point of the statement, as it says: to cut off a source of defilement. If it is not a source of defilement, then it would not apply obviously.
However, for most people that is not the case. When most people see the faults of Dick Cheney, this immediately arouses anger, hostility, dislike, aversion, ill-will etc. If people go around trying to make the world a better place with these things in their mind, I think they are actually doing the world a disservice, not helping. Those things are contagious! To do so is actually the opposite of Bodhisattva action, poisoned action so to speak. But I do think it is possible to go around helping the world without these things, which is true Bodhisattva action.
Then I think: How would the Buddha himself react to a person like Dick Cheney? Would he have great love and great compassion for him and feel sincere care and concern for that particular individual? I think the answer would be an unequivocal yes. If the Buddha met him in person, would he have any reluctance or aversion in shaking his hand and smiling at him with a genuine smile? I think the answer to that would be an unequivocal no.
How many people could honestly say that they would feel no aversion whatsoever in giving Dick Cheney a hug?
To paraphrase Jesus, it is not what enters the mind that defiles it, but what comes out. What causes the problem is not the observation of anothers flaws, that is merely seeing what is there. The problem arises from the minds reaction to what it sees. No one ever gained wisdom through willful ignorance of phenomena.