Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
A bunch of questions on Buddhism!
Invincible_summer
Heavy Metal DhammaWe(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
Hey everyone, I'm interested in learning more about Buddhism and these questions have always bothered me so I'll get right to it. Oh, by the way, I am a reformed militant atheist, so that is the POV I am coming from.
I have many questions, so please bear with me. I'm very eager to learn!
Karma
- I know that many Buddhists believe that people who have disabilities or have a bad lot in life are in this way because of negative karma from a previous life. I've even watched a Youtube video of a self-proclaimed Therevadin Buddhist giving a class on Buddhism who said that people who get murdered have this happen due to their negative karma.
I can't help but feel that this is almost like "blaming the victim" for a past that he/she cannot help, especially if he/she cannot remember their past life.
Am I just misunderstanding karma? How do Buddhists today explain poverty, mentally challenged individuals, etc? How about events like the Holocaust and the American invasion of Vietnam, or war in general?
Rebirth
- How literally do Buddhists take the concept of rebirth? Is it more of a philosophical thing along the lines of "You are constantly dying and being reborn every minute of your life" or rather that when one physically dies, some sort of consciousness is transferred to a new form? I don't really understand how it works. Do Buddhists actually believe that people can "come back as a grasshopper," or is that a confusion with Hindu reincarnation?
I've been told about the candle passing a flame analogy, but it still doesn't really explain how rebirth works without believing in a soul of some sort.
Imponderables
- I'm just wondering if the concept of the Four Imponderables conflicts with this famous quote:
To me (and my very basic understanding of the Imponderables), it sort of seems like a cop-out. Instead of having an explanation, it "just is that way."
If someone could sort things out for me here, that'd be great.
Cosmology
- So do Buddhists actually worship the variety of deities/believe they exist in some metaphysical realm, or are they just symbols?
Practice
- When one goes into a Buddhist temple, what should one expect to do? How can I start becoming a member?
And a few Qs on specific Buddhist schools...
Pure Land Buddhism
- So I'm sure many comparisons between Pure Land/Jodo Shinshu Buddhism and Christianity have been made. How is Pure Land different from Heaven? Do most practitioners believe that Pure land is a mental state rather than a place?
Also, the worship and salvation paradigm of the Amida Buddha seems very similar to that of Jesus in Christianity, minus the son of a creator god thing. How are they different?
What strikes me about Pure Land is it just assumes that by reciting the Nembutsu one can be reborn in the Pure Land. How is this any different from petitionary prayer? Why does Amida buddha have the power to do such a thing?
Shambhala
- What is Shambhala exactly? Also, doing research on it, you have to pay fairly substantial sums of money to take the classes and learn about Shambhala? That seems sort of ridiculous and extortionist to me.
Nichiren (specifically Soka Gakkai)
- How is Nichiren viewed amongst Buddhists? Is Soka Gakkai basically an NGO with Nichiren values? Nichiren seems very interesting and in line with my views, but the closest Nichiren temple is about 1.5 hours away. There is a SGI centre that is much closer, but it seems more like an NGO than a Buddhist community...
Plus, what's with the heavy emphasis on proselytizing? That's the only thing that really turns me off.
Whew! That's it (for now). Thanks in advance! :cool:
I have many questions, so please bear with me. I'm very eager to learn!
Karma
- I know that many Buddhists believe that people who have disabilities or have a bad lot in life are in this way because of negative karma from a previous life. I've even watched a Youtube video of a self-proclaimed Therevadin Buddhist giving a class on Buddhism who said that people who get murdered have this happen due to their negative karma.
I can't help but feel that this is almost like "blaming the victim" for a past that he/she cannot help, especially if he/she cannot remember their past life.
Am I just misunderstanding karma? How do Buddhists today explain poverty, mentally challenged individuals, etc? How about events like the Holocaust and the American invasion of Vietnam, or war in general?
Rebirth
- How literally do Buddhists take the concept of rebirth? Is it more of a philosophical thing along the lines of "You are constantly dying and being reborn every minute of your life" or rather that when one physically dies, some sort of consciousness is transferred to a new form? I don't really understand how it works. Do Buddhists actually believe that people can "come back as a grasshopper," or is that a confusion with Hindu reincarnation?
I've been told about the candle passing a flame analogy, but it still doesn't really explain how rebirth works without believing in a soul of some sort.
Imponderables
- I'm just wondering if the concept of the Four Imponderables conflicts with this famous quote:
Siddhartha Gautama wrote:"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
To me (and my very basic understanding of the Imponderables), it sort of seems like a cop-out. Instead of having an explanation, it "just is that way."
If someone could sort things out for me here, that'd be great.
Cosmology
- So do Buddhists actually worship the variety of deities/believe they exist in some metaphysical realm, or are they just symbols?
Practice
- When one goes into a Buddhist temple, what should one expect to do? How can I start becoming a member?
And a few Qs on specific Buddhist schools...
Pure Land Buddhism
- So I'm sure many comparisons between Pure Land/Jodo Shinshu Buddhism and Christianity have been made. How is Pure Land different from Heaven? Do most practitioners believe that Pure land is a mental state rather than a place?
Also, the worship and salvation paradigm of the Amida Buddha seems very similar to that of Jesus in Christianity, minus the son of a creator god thing. How are they different?
What strikes me about Pure Land is it just assumes that by reciting the Nembutsu one can be reborn in the Pure Land. How is this any different from petitionary prayer? Why does Amida buddha have the power to do such a thing?
Shambhala
- What is Shambhala exactly? Also, doing research on it, you have to pay fairly substantial sums of money to take the classes and learn about Shambhala? That seems sort of ridiculous and extortionist to me.
Nichiren (specifically Soka Gakkai)
- How is Nichiren viewed amongst Buddhists? Is Soka Gakkai basically an NGO with Nichiren values? Nichiren seems very interesting and in line with my views, but the closest Nichiren temple is about 1.5 hours away. There is a SGI centre that is much closer, but it seems more like an NGO than a Buddhist community...
Plus, what's with the heavy emphasis on proselytizing? That's the only thing that really turns me off.
Whew! That's it (for now). Thanks in advance! :cool:
0
Comments
In Buddhism, like that quote you have presented, it is more of a your idea than being told... It is like you ponder for yourself and get the answers from yourself... All teachers(Buddhist) can and do is help ya think...
I, personally, am not a very experienced Buddhist(Started Practicing this Jan only
Well, Let's start,
Karma
Dis-ease is caused by 3 things...
1)Karma - This is what you had done in your previous life...
2)Old Age - This is normal.. The rotting away(or degrading, I should say) of this body which is a characteristic feature of it... Whether you were good or bad, you need to suffer if you are born into this body(that comes along with being born into it)
3)As a result of what you have done in this life itself - This is basically Karma itself, but rather in a more nearer sense... What you do in this life in your past itself will manifest itself as dis-ease(however you want to take it-physical or mental)..
Coming to murders,
They have 2 of the above reasons... i.e.,
1)Karma - When people are killed by "mistake"... Like in terrorist attacks, Holocaust(like ya said), war, etc, this comes into play...
2)As a result Of what You Do In This Life - This is like, you provoking someone or causing damage to him or his loved ones or his property, and he takes revenge upon you by killing ya...
Poverty And Mental/Physical Challenges(both) Are results of Karma...
AND, Karma Is A LAW of NATURE
AND, Only A Buddha can accurately explain about Karma...
Rebirth
Rebirth is considered yes, like in Hindu tradition how you said, but with a little difference.. Anatta, or anatma is believed in Buddhism.. There is no soul... A man ism made of 5 aggregates - Matter(Body), feeling, Perception(the mind), volition(action), and consciousness...
After death, Matter rots hence does feeling and action... What is left are the "Aggregates"(u need to remember this) of Consciousness and Perception... You can take them to be etheric body and Life force(if it seems probable to you)... These 2, are interdependent for existence... If Life force goes off, The etheric body is no longer body, but just ether and merges with space... And if the etheric body goes off, the life force is just life force and becomes detached and diverges into space... And what is reborn into another body are these two... This is how I take it.. (I don't have any Buddhist teacher or anything- I just do some pondering and arrive at these)...
Imponderables
I did not understand your question very much.. But I will answer as per my understanding... You seem to ask why the Buddha said that.. And why can't there be something like "it just is that way"...
Well, see.. We are living... And we realize this... So it certainly must not be beyond our scope to recognize the real path to nirvana(however you want to take - Buddhist or Non-Buddhist sense)...
If that's not your question, please rephrase so that I can try answering...
Cosmology
I wish to quote a story..
A monk showed some non-monks around his monastery.. Those people had heard of stories of monks breaking Buddha statues and spitting at them, etc, so that they become detached... When the monk led them to a Buddha idol and Bowed down low, these people told what they knew about those monks of the past.. Then the monk said "You might spit if you want to, but I prefer to bow"...
It implies that, Buddhists bow to idols just for the sake of showing respect and Humbling themselves, and not expecting anything in return from the deities of those idols.. But you might have come across stories of Ksitigarbha, Avalokiteshwara, etc, where you will be given great benefits if you worship them... But you need to understand the subtle meanings of these stories... Ksitigarbha or Avalokiteshvara are beings that exist in your mind(Avalokiteshvara is the bodhisattva of compassion, i.e., it is the compassionate side of you)... When you are worshiping them, it increases your confidence... This is not needed once you become enlightened...
Practice
That I don't know... I don't go to any Buddhist temple
And I can't tell you that I am 100% correct in the above... Most of the above comes by practice of the Dhamma... Not specifically from any text...
Sorry if I had made any mistakes
Love And Light,
Nidish
There's much to be said and learnt. But there's only so much i can say on a forum. Limited time and slow typing. Feel that you must be patient and take your time to explore and learn. Buddhism is not just knowledge based, it is dependent on heart-felt insights, which will only arise with enough merit. Therefore, it would be good for you to accumulate some merits through some small daily practice as well. Learn to dedicate your merits properly too.
Don't expect all questions to be answered, all doubts to be resolved. :cool: You need to sometimes dive a little into the unknown and sometimes go a bit on faith/gut-feeling/intuition.
Do you find it to be extortion when there is a fee for a kung fu or cooking class? What about a university fee?
Some Buddhists may believe that. Maybe. Personally I've never heard any Buddhist espouse such views, and I'd question the wisdom of one who did.
Samsara.
I don't really see how it's a cop out. To use a crude phrase: shit happens. There doesn't have to be any grand reason behind it, it just happens. I'm reminded of, years ago, during a period when I was trying to reconnect with the Christian faith, one of the men in the church I attended, a local businessman, was speaking about how the garage door on one of his properties was damaged in a storm that rolled through the town that week. His idea as to why it happened was because "the Lord humbled" him. It never seemed to dawn on his that the damage to his property was just a random happening during a frequent and completely natural event. People ascribe meaning to too much. Sometimes there is no explanation. Sometimes, in the words of Jhonn Balance, "it just is".
That's a question you'd need to address to the specific temple.
What proselytizing?
The simple matter is that we really don't know. And to try to assert that we DO know, is in itself Wrong View.
Better to show compassion, Now, for the person, Now, and Love, support and accept them now, as they are now.
By careful study of the Four Noble Truths. And again, as Takeahnase said, by understanding that Samsara is the perpetual cycle of Suffering we all find ourselves in....
Personally, I believe in rebirth - it should (as Voltaire once famously wrote) be no more incredible to be born twice than it is to be born once.
But take care not to confuse Rebirth with reincarnation. There is, according to differing Traditions, a distinction.
Rebirth is not the duplication, carbon copy of the person who passed.
I think of it in the analogy of Energy and the fact that it can neither be created nor destroyed, but it can be transformed, channelled and passed on from one stasis to another.
I'm quite comfortable with this, but I guess I'll find out for sure as and when I die.
I'll let you know then. Until then -I'm more concerned with Living Well, lovingly, Compassionately and Mindfully as I can, in the present. no mean feat. It takes all my concentration, so frankly, sometimes, I don't have the time to ponder things that really don't matter too much, right now....
First of all, you need to understand what the Kalama sutta is actually about - and you need to understand that it's not as many people think, merely a question of asking questions and discarding what doesn't sit well and adopting what does. it's a deeper teaching than that. Try this link, and see what I mean.
secondly, the Four Imponderables truly are exactly that: Imponderable.
We've had many, many threads on here discussing - or attempting to discuss - matters covered by the Imponderables, and even the greatest Scientific, theological and philosophical minds of our time, are still pondering these questions - without success.
If you DO manage to clarify one or all of these Imponderables, and come to a concretely indisputable conclusion, do let us know.
It would be a First.
The Buddha explains that pondering on such things detracts from your sincere and focussed practice.
I'm afraid many before us, and with us, have found he's quite right.....
From my PoV they are deeply symbolic and they function as an extension, or enhanced quality a person seeks to develop.... But you have to know that these deities are not eternal, omniscient, Omnipotent or everlasting. They are as subject to the cycle of Samsara and re-birth as much as humans are. They're no huge deal.....
Turn up, tune in, chill out, and participate. Nothing more is required or expected.
.
Can't comment. Not my practice.
Can't comment. Not my practice.
You'll have to do some personal investigating of your own, but personally, I'm not prepared to entertain a Sect or School already shrouded in controversy, argument and questionable practice. Threads on here have tended to descend into much argument and difficulty, so I tend to close them at that point.
Research threads on here foer further info if you like. But it's not a unique situation....
I sincerely have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Buddhists actually don't proselytise, and in Theravada it's not the norm at all. In fact, in my view, opinion and experience, I've always found it to be unfavourable, and discouraged.
Where have you come across Buddhists proselytising with heavy emphasis, exactly?
Whew! That's it (for now). Thanks in advance! :cool:[/QUOTE]
Quite right, It's thirsty work, ain't it? Cup of tea?
I'll answer the questions I find applicable to my worldview;
Good thoughts and actions derive from and result in good effects, mentally and in the world around us. Bad thoughts and actions derive from a chaotic mind and yield negative results.
It's more complicated than simple cause and effect though, because our minds are influenced not only by past incidents, but by present ones, imaginary ones and genetics.
I agree with this. I think from discussions on here that most Buddhists do. Many choose to believe that this phenomena continues after brain death, I do not but I don't think it a necessarily harmful belief. Unless it influences people to leave practicing the dharma until the next life, as they do in Pure Land Buddhism.
Buddha didn't offer revelatory answers to the big questions of life, the universe and everything. He offered a method to end human mental anguish.
The imponderables are imponderable because they aren't worth pondering (although I and many others do, it's hard not to). Buddha had beliefs, karma, rebirth etc that he shared with the people of his time. IMO, having no knowledge of genetics, big bang theory or quantum mechanics he probably accepted them as the most logical explanations available to him and incorporated them into his teachings as vehicles for conveying his understanding. But he also realised their danger as potential distractions from the core of his method - mindfulness - hence the advice against thinking on them too much.
Yes, I very much agree. I was just hoping to get some clarification from actual Buddhists, and not just people who have studied Buddhism (there's a difference!).
I do find great meaning in the Four Noble Truths and try to follow the Eightfold Path although I'm not a "true" Buddhist yet. As I mentioned, I am a recently reformed militant atheist, so these metaphysical concepts are a bit difficult for me to comprehend at first, but I am warming up to them very quickly.
I apologize if I come off as standoffish or rude, I am used to being extremely cynical about belief systems.
Perhaps I'm romanticizing religion somewhat, but I don't feel that I should pay over a hundred dollars per course for a set of courses that help me learn to be Enlightened.
I am just a student, not an upper-middle class yuppie who can afford to pay for such things.
I was referring to Nichiren Buddhism. I was reading some stuff on a Nichiren site and it kept talking about gaining followers... it was sort of creepy to be honest.
Karma is cause and effect. We decide karma is good or bad according to our own attachments. It think there is a Shakespeare quote..."nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
So for example if someone is murdered, there is more than their own karma at work here. There is the karma of every person involved...murderer, victim, family of each, etc. "Every jewel in Indras net reflects every other jewel"
My Karma at this moment is linked to everyone who reads this thread.
So to me it isn't blaming the victim, it is just statement of fact...the previous thoughts words and deeds of the victim lead them to be there at that moment and the same is true of the murderer. However all of our karma is intimately interconnected.
Too often people take a very "self" oriented and simplistic view of karma, instead of really seeing the interconnectedness of it.
It really is an infinitely complex thing involving the whole universe and all time. It isn't just "If I'm nice to people good things will happen in my future" which of course seems contradicted by the fact we witness terrible things happening to nice people.
(then there is the ethical argument of "is doing good in order to create good karma for oneself, really doing good or is it simply a selfish act?")
Regarding paying. I think an argument could be made that enlightenment is the most valuable thing you could invest in.
However on a more pragmatic level...Temples, and teachers have costs to bring the dharma.
Some rely on donations alone, some have a fee system. Either way they cannot exist on well wishes. They have bills to pay, and monks and nuns have to eat just like the rest of us.
In Jodo Shinshu our Senseis are non-monastic and have spouses and children, homes and cars.
So really it isn't idealism...it is the reality that to live costs something.
Time to throw a wrench into the works and blow your mind.
I agree with you up to a point.
I mean, existing in the modern world means that people largely function through financial means, and money is a basic requirement, in order to be able to maintain a level of presence and profile. Not all Buddhist organisations which require financial input will do so for sheer profit.
That said, the Buddhist Monastery I attend seeks voluntary donations, and only asks those who can contribute, to do so. it emphasises that it does not seek to take advantage of laypersons, but there again, Buddhist Monks cannot handle money, so they specify what their monastery needs most at any one time. (Once on their website, they asked for writing pads, pens and rubber bands. So it's all practical stuff....)
Also, I think it a little deprecating and maybe somewhat hasty to label people who contribute financially, because they are able to, as "upper middle-class yuppies". People cannot always help what they have. And being financially sound makes nobody better or worse than anyone else.....That's a form of envy, and really, things are as they are.
If this needed any further clarification, refer to my comments on Nichiren and the results of discussing it on here.
It's loaded with controversy, and honestly, far from representative of mainstream Buddhism.
I see your disquiet. I would advise against further involvement, personally.
I realize that I'm basically violating the precept of "right speech" by lambasting it
At any rate, I'm going to take some time and browse the forums a bit more, think about things. Thanks again for all the responses.
Is it Wrong Speech to speak out against something we find disagreeable or unskillful?
Is it Wrong Speech to voice an opinion or set down what we believe, so that others may know what we think?
Providing you consider the words used, and try to communicate in an empathetic manner, without compromising your own standpoint, I think most of what we say can be said using Right Speech.
The only thing 'you' ('you' generic) should be prepared to do, is to re-evaluate your opinions, as and when they are challenged. Reformed militant Atheist (I don't know what you mean by that, really....) or not, the most harm we can ever do ourselves, is to believe we are indisputably right, and want to be right, and refuse to see that in fact, we might be entirely wrong!
Interesting. i will keep this in mind.
Avoiding self-righteousness is admittedly a difficult one for me; I am very opinionated and tend to not waver very much. I will think about what you've mentioned though
I'm lazy and don't feel like typing a long, contrived response, so I'll suggest a couple of my long, contrived blog posts about kamma and rebirth. Hope that helps.
On a case by case basis, maybe some of these things are experienced as a result of past kamma while other cases it is just unfortunate. Who can say?
In my opinion, instead of asking "why do these terrible things happen? is it kamma?..." it is much better to ask "what am I doing about it?". Sometimes we can do something about it, sometimes there is nothing that can be done. In either case we should aim to accept it and move on.
I can't remember who said it but there is a quote which sums it up nicely:
"If something can be done, why worry? If nothing can be done, why worry?"
Also there is a good quote in the Christian tradition:
<DD> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer
Don't ask "what are the kammic causes that led to this?", instead ask "what kind of kamma am I making in response to it?" The literal translation of the Pali word "kamma" = action.
</DD>