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A few random questions.
Hey everyone, you probably don't remember me. I was around for a few weeks but decided to give up my computer for the summer to focus on my practice, as I found it a huge procrastination factor. Anyway, I'm back at college so I have to have a laptop, so I may be popping in from time to time again.
So yeah, about the question. I have been meditating, but have found it helps my practice more if I go at my practice from a more eastern approach (aka, westerners focus on meditation first, then following the precepts, action, etc. come next, from what I can tell many eastern Buddhist lay practitioners spend years without doing meditation as they work on mindfulness through action first) So I've been focusing more on following the precepts, doing mental exercises and chants, and studying every book on Buddhism I can, while trying to bring the core concepts into my daily life. But I've come upon somethings that I don't think I'll find in a book, and would like some opinions on.
1. I dorm, and thus eat at a dining hall. The hours are not designed with optimum health or religious practice in mind, and don't open until 2:00PM on weekends. And I also am in athletic training so skipping meals is not something I should be doing. So, would you consider it stealing to take from the dining hall? on the one hand the rules simply state that it's eat all you care to, and so I don't feel like anyone loses from me taking anything, however I also feel like I'm violating the "Do not take what is not freely given" precept. At the same time though, I can't afford to get breakfast anywhere else, and I've been told not to skip meals.
2. How do most Buddhists feel about eggs? They don't put out any form of bean until lunch on regular days, and the milk is almost always run out by the time my early class ends and I can eat, so the only other protein source is eggs. I thought about it though, and eating an egg isn't killing a bird, it's literally an unfertilized egg that would not have hatched into anything anyway. But on the other hand, I do not agree with the treatment the birds laying those eggs are subject to.
3. And at the same time I feel that by thinking so much about these things I'm violating the idea of contentment with food.
4. I train for health, but a friend of mine is a martial artist and said I should try it. I was of course against it at first. But when I think about it, and knowing my friend well, I wonder, is it wrong to fight physically if there isn't any ill intent and both parties willingly enter the fight? I don't like hitting people, so even if I do train it would only be for conditioning, but anyone have an opinion on this? It's more of a curiosity question than a need to know question though.
So yeah, about the question. I have been meditating, but have found it helps my practice more if I go at my practice from a more eastern approach (aka, westerners focus on meditation first, then following the precepts, action, etc. come next, from what I can tell many eastern Buddhist lay practitioners spend years without doing meditation as they work on mindfulness through action first) So I've been focusing more on following the precepts, doing mental exercises and chants, and studying every book on Buddhism I can, while trying to bring the core concepts into my daily life. But I've come upon somethings that I don't think I'll find in a book, and would like some opinions on.
1. I dorm, and thus eat at a dining hall. The hours are not designed with optimum health or religious practice in mind, and don't open until 2:00PM on weekends. And I also am in athletic training so skipping meals is not something I should be doing. So, would you consider it stealing to take from the dining hall? on the one hand the rules simply state that it's eat all you care to, and so I don't feel like anyone loses from me taking anything, however I also feel like I'm violating the "Do not take what is not freely given" precept. At the same time though, I can't afford to get breakfast anywhere else, and I've been told not to skip meals.
2. How do most Buddhists feel about eggs? They don't put out any form of bean until lunch on regular days, and the milk is almost always run out by the time my early class ends and I can eat, so the only other protein source is eggs. I thought about it though, and eating an egg isn't killing a bird, it's literally an unfertilized egg that would not have hatched into anything anyway. But on the other hand, I do not agree with the treatment the birds laying those eggs are subject to.
3. And at the same time I feel that by thinking so much about these things I'm violating the idea of contentment with food.
4. I train for health, but a friend of mine is a martial artist and said I should try it. I was of course against it at first. But when I think about it, and knowing my friend well, I wonder, is it wrong to fight physically if there isn't any ill intent and both parties willingly enter the fight? I don't like hitting people, so even if I do train it would only be for conditioning, but anyone have an opinion on this? It's more of a curiosity question than a need to know question though.
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Comments
1. If the dining hall rule is take as much as you want, I think that it is therefore being freely given, so unless I'm misunderstanding you, I don't see a problem.
2. There is no Buddhist rule requiring vegetarianism aside from some monastaries. So you are pretty much left to make your own choice. You do need protein. Maybe it would have a bigger impact to write to legislators, or join protests to try to improve laws for treatment of agricultural animals? It is a difficult situation...unfortunately I think we will find moral issues in almost any industry if we look hard enough. Being an animal lover though I sympathise with the conundrum and struggle with it myself. Still a handful of people not buying eggs will not change the treatment of animals.
3. I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, but yes over thinking is a bad thing. Keep in mind the very first thing Buddha taught in the Turning the Wheel of the Dharma Sutta was the middle path. Avoid extremes and you should be ok.
4. Martial arts as a sport involves two people training in a physical skill, and I would think there are few injuries. I play hockey as a goalie. I love it and find it is really a kind of active meditation. Hockey can be a violent sport (not in my leagues mind you) but again all participants go in knowing what they are doing, and injuries seldom occur due to intentional violence.
Training for self defense is also valuable. I feel there IS times when violence is required. Suppose you came upon a child being raped? Would you not feel stopping that would be the right thing to do? I suspect in some case it could only be stopped with violence. For Buddhism to be real it has to deal with real life issues. There is of course also the relationship between zen and kung-fu, both of whom claim Bodhidharma as a patriarch.
2. That's true, both the beginning and the end of it. Unfortunately though, worse conditions in exchange for more money means that I don't think anything I write to anyone will make a difference. It's unfortunate but we all know money rules supreme in the western world.
3. I know, It gets tough though. being mindful of the way one lives their life, it's only natural to question so many things. It's a double edged sword. I remember one of the first things I read was 'there is no purpose in over-thinking, if you can do something about something you don't like then do it, if you cannot, then there's no point worrying about it'. But the problem I run into is I don't know if there are things i can do about some things.
4. well, as far as protecting something, I wouldn't use violence. I would try to use words, and perhaps, even though it is wrong, deception. Most people can be scared off by threat of punishment or can be snapped back to their senses if done right. I personally believe that I can act without violence, and it is in fact my dream to establish a Buddhist shelter in a bad neighborhood near my home in hopes that maybe understanding that money wont make their lives much better they may be less inclined to violent crime, as for rapists, I can only think that something has caused them to become that way, and that if more people deal with less trauma in life as a result of less violence in their lives, maybe the tragedies that they both enact and become could be avoided. I would, if desperate, sooner try to hold the assailant while the child flees and risk my own wellbeing than attack another human being. That's just me though. I've always been the type to risk injury for smaller reasons.
However, my friend does MMA, and I've seen some people who, despite it being their life, for some reason lose all sense of self when struck and go from friendly sport to revenge driven savagery very quickly. And unfortunately despite the rules, fans love that sort of wildness, so though I believe your ideal image of it is truly what many fighters want the sport to be, it's unrealistic when I see the way some of the fighters act in the ring.
1. Go ahead and take the food. It is being freely given. If someone confronts you about it, just say that the time is inconvenient for you so you take it when you can and eat it when you need to, and that you will stop if the authorities have a problem with it. You can also ask for permission from the authorities ahead of time.
2. Eggs are great. I say go ahead and eat them. You gotta focus on the important problems first. When you're a college student living in dorms, I think the treatment of the egg chickens is not a problem that should be addressed. Some problems just have to be accepted. That's the way society is, the treat animals badly and stuff, but hey we gotta eat. Maybe when you're out of college you can go about sourcing your food responsibly. I myself am planning on being a hermit living on mainly beans and corn, and with chickens or geese for the yummy unfertilized eggs.
3. I just think that there's sooooo many problems in life that if you focus on all the little ones it just hinders progress. It's okay to not do everything perfectly, it's kindof impossible. I heard a monk was preparing a bath for the Buddha once, and got extremely confused and anxious when the bath tub was filled with ants and insects. He didn't know how to remove them without killing them. He asked the Buddha and the Buddha said to just rinse them out with water because it didn't really matter if he killed some bugs in the process of cleaning a bath tub. From this we can learn to reserve our efforts to the most important things.
4. What do you want to train in martial arts for? I have considered it myself and decided not to. You could get hurt. And there are much much better ways of solving problems than with violence. And who knows what consequences it would have in the mind, with ego and stuff. I would say refrain from the temptation. I always wanted to do some sort of martial art because they seem really cool, but I decided it wasn't even worth it.
3. I know, I'm not really holding on to them, I actually just write down anything I think of that I want to know the answer to, If I ever worried about something small to the point it got in the way of my mindfulness practice I'd probably have to re-evaluate why I feel the way I do about it. Though I have to admit, I did feel a little worried about the moral issues so I figured I'd ask anyway.
4. I don't mind injuries. Actually I am kind of curious. I've not been injured once since I've started training (Buddhist training not MMA) but would like to see how I try to escape from intense pain. Of course I'd never go looking for it, but I don't plan to avoid it. I guess how it affects myself mentally could be an issue. I'm fairly confident in my will and ability to control myself, but I guess I couldn't really know. I need to think some more on this one. Also, I wouldn't actually spar probably, more just train with them I think.
Oh, and thank you both for your responses. It's appreciated.
For bhikkhus it is a "Pacittiya" (Offense that must be confessed) to use violence against another person. I have heard from an ex-bhikkhu that the exception to this is when it is in self-defense (but I have not found a source in the pati-mokkha that supports this). For laypeople it is not a violation of any precepts. If we purposely look for situations where we can use violence, or we become violent out of anger then this is not good.
I practice a form of chinese martial arts every day, primarily for health benefits because it combines chi kung and nei kung exercises which are both well known for their health benefits. Even though my main motivation is for health, it can (and is designed to) be applicable in self defence. It conditions the body and the nervous system in such a way that should the need arise to defend yourself it should 'activate' automatically without the need for conscious thought. The "steel body" training, once it reaches a certain level, becomes automatic to other situations where your life might be threatened, such as a car accident (one of the students of this system was involved in a car accident and their "steel body" training protected them).
So it is potentially beneficial (depending on one's intention) to learn martial arts, in my opinion.
When you say "pass things up" do you mean "nekkhamma"? Nekkhama = renunciation. Or do you mean something else?
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I do not accept the notion of "sin", so I don't agree. But perhaps you (and/or Jesus) are talking about kamma on a mental level only, in which case I agree. We can have a negative intention (based on ill-will, cruelty, greed) which we do not act out, this is negative mental kamma - it doesn't carry the same weight as verbal or bodily kamma.
2. Eat free range eggs.
3. Work out a diet you are comfortable with, then you can stop thinking about it.
4. The point of learning a martial art is so that you can avoid violence. Most martial arts train you to deflect attacks and disable opponants causing minimal damage.