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Thinking on converting
Lately I've been getting more philosophical in my thinking and it's got me thinking I need something in my life not quite a religion but something just enough to set me on a better path and Buddhism always came to mind when I thought of that.
Tonight when I was leaving my friend's apartment, I saw a quarter and pocketed it. When I walked out the door I grabbed my phone and the quarter fell down the middle space in the stairs. Right then, two things hit me at once.
1. Karma is real. My punishment for stealing from a friend's house, even a quarter, was to lose it
2. Usually when change falls out of your pocket, it just falls next to you but this flew down the hole in the stairs. I took this as a sign that material goods are useless so it wasn't for anyone to have.
I'm am atheist right now but I've recently felt that I need something more then atheism to help define my spirituality.
Any suggestions to help me learn more?
Tonight when I was leaving my friend's apartment, I saw a quarter and pocketed it. When I walked out the door I grabbed my phone and the quarter fell down the middle space in the stairs. Right then, two things hit me at once.
1. Karma is real. My punishment for stealing from a friend's house, even a quarter, was to lose it
2. Usually when change falls out of your pocket, it just falls next to you but this flew down the hole in the stairs. I took this as a sign that material goods are useless so it wasn't for anyone to have.
I'm am atheist right now but I've recently felt that I need something more then atheism to help define my spirituality.
Any suggestions to help me learn more?
0
Comments
*edit* found one in Houston
Well given that this is a Buddhist forum I don't think too many folks are going to try and steer you away from the Buddhist path
Karma doesn't work that way. You took something that did not belong to you and you felt guilt. You then experienced a misfortune and you created the illusion of punishment for your action where there was none. You punished yourself, karma had nothing to do with it in any mystical sense. You created your own karma as the result of your action and you created your own karmic retribution from a random event. It's all in your head.
Again, it's all in your head. A random event occurred and you made up a story to explain it.
That you are making up stories to explain meaningless events is not a problem. It's normal. The stories that you are telling yourself are not true, but they are pointing the way to the truth.
That you lost the quarter you stole was coincidence. That you made up a story about deserving to have lost the quarter because it wasn't obtained honestly is a made up story all in your head. At the same time the story you made up wasn't made up by your mind for no reason. Understand why your mind invented the story.
Be honest with yourself. Ask questions and never become fully comfortable with any answer. Don't seek safety where there is none, don't seek permanence where there is none. Become comfortable being uncomfortable
If that seems too cryptic then go buy 'The Places that Scare You' by Pema Chodron and read it. Buy it with your quarter too please
Was losing the quarter a result of kamma? Who can say...But if reflecting on the consequences of your actions encourages you to refrain from taking what is not given in the future, then that is a good thing. The ability to reflect is encouraged in Buddhism, so you might find it appealling in that regard.
All Buddhists are encouraged to keep the 5 precepts. These precepts are voluntary, no one will force you to take them, you only take them if and when you are ready to do so. There is no reason that you can't "untake" them, but as you keep them you will hopefully see their benefit and a desire to keep them will grow. If you break a precept there is no punishment, no need for guilt. you simply reflect on the consequences of breaking the precept, forgive yourself and let it go.
The precepts are the foundation for your practice. If you are building a house you need a strong foundation. In the same way, Sila (morality) is the foundation for Samadhi (meditation) which in turn supports Panna (wisdom).
I would suggest anyone who is interested in Buddhism to try keeping the precepts for a little while, say, a month. See what happens. If you are anything like me you will make a lot of mistakes, especially with the speech aspect (I still make mistakes now). During this month, see if you can find the time to meditate every now and then. Every day, twice a day is ideal - but to start off with I would suggest just meditating whenever you feel inclined to do so. It should be a joy, not a chore.
Also, read books on Buddhism, preferably written by long-term practitioners. Listen to dhamma talks. Watch youtube videos. Gather information, try it out and see if Buddhism is right for you. You don't have to give away all your posessions and join a monastery right away (although if you decide to do so I wish you all the best). In my opinion, the best approach is to take it one step at a time and see if your practice gives you more peace of mind and more freedom over the long term. Buddhist practice is a marathon, not a sprint.
Here's a good place to start: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/begin.html
Kind regards,
Guy
Anyway, as people have pointed out above, that is not how karma (kamma) works. Karma is not some mystical all knowing entity handing out praise and punishment, this is something I came to learn after a few months of being on the buddhist path. It is a simple law of cause and affect. When something bad happens to you, sometimes it may be a result of karma you have generated in your life or even past lives, but other times it will happen just because it happens. There is no actual way to know for sure.
If I was you, I would do some research, look up the dharma talks online on youtube as they are great for beginners and even non buddhists, just to help you in life. They have many many talks on a variety of topics such as depression, karma, dependent origination, compassion and the list really does go on and on.
Some say buddhism isn;t actually a religion, who is to say... Just keep an open mind and look for yourself
here is the link by the way http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA#p/u/1/zSQI1e8D3Qo
Karma isn't some kind of cosmic punishment system, Fordbronco.
I suggest you check these articles on karma for a wider outlook :
http://www.unfetteredmind.com/articles/karma.php
Apart from that I agree with GuyC about checking out the Access to Insight website.
I also suggest you have a look at the articles on this website:
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/
.
But yea, in my opinion when considering every religion, buddhists make the least effort to try and convert people or enforce their beliefs upon everybody. To me, this is a crucial matter and I try to prevent myself from being the grand master preach
So how does karma work ? I'm intrigued by your confidence in how the law of karma actually works. There are so many unknown factors at play concerning karma that I doubt you or anyone else could truly know how karma actually works.
Metta to all sentient beings
I dunno, I read books on Buddhism and they all say it doesn't work that way.
If I'm reading this thread correctly, I think it was being said that "if I do this today, I will be punished tomorrow with bad fortune" (or something to that effect). If that's the case, then no, that's not my understanding of the nature of karma either.
The best description I've heard is that it's like an investment account that you carry with you through your rebirth cycle. You put good karma in and it accumulates over countless lifetimes. Then sometimes you do things that cause the account to be debited a little bit (or maybe a lot if you're Hitler or Stalin). If you do enough of those things in this life, then next time around your karma account will be worth a little less. If you keep doing that, eventually you'll run out of good karma and you'll be reborn as a louse with no chance of enlightenment. Then you have to start building up the account again. Just because you stepped on a caterpillar today doesn't mean you'll be reborn as a louse tomorrow though. It's not a tit-for-tat exchange.
Or maybe I'm all wet. I dunno...
Mtns
just understand what the action does to your mind, and the consecuenses of that mind in the future,instead of reading external "signs".
My only addition is to raise the matter of guilt.
As Westerners we come loaded with a guilt complex. We love it, roll it it, and display it at every opportunity. Guilt has been brainwashed into us from day one. Guilt is very much part of the Judeo-Christian heritage and baggage we carry with us.
The Buddhist has not concern with such notions as guilt. Like anger, guilt is what we do to ourselves and if there is a cause of guilt then, as the Four Nobel Truths explain, there is a way out.
What a Buddhist would experience as a result of negative action is regret. Regret can be dealt with speedily - perhaps by simply saying 'sorry' - and by promising never to do such action again. There! Dealt with . Finished. No need for elaborate explanations.
You stole a quarter. You became aware that such act was not a virtuous act. All you needed to do was to acknowledge as much, promise never to do so again and perhaps slip the quarter back to it rightful owner. If you really feel a need to do something more some rounds of the Vajrasattva mantra should overcome any associated negative karma. Finished.
Hi Fordbroco,
1. Read books and learn... keep open mind. Rely on common sense... very important...
2. Be patient, spiritual practice goes very deep, takes time...
3. Accumulate merit. Do some daily practices to accumulate merit. I feel that you need to emphasize on purification practices alot like Vajrasattva first.
4. Dedicate merit properly. Pray to meet someone of authentic spirituality who can guide you.
Suggest Chogyam Trungpa's "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism", Chagdud Tulku "Gates to Buddhist Practice" & "Change of Heart" to read.... also suggest books by Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche, Pema Chodron, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Adyashanti, Ajahn Chah, Anam Thubten, Tsoknyi Rinpoche, Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, Sogyal Rinpoche among others...
Some suggestions for you to learn more...
http://www.siddharthasintent.org/gentle/GVindex.htm
http://www.shamarpa.org/index.php?id=3
http://www.pundarika.org/teachings.html
http://www.dhagpo-kagyu.org/anglais/science-esprit/indexscienceesprit.htm
http://pathgate.org/Audio_teachings_00.html
http://www.tricycle.com/
(can subscribe to daily articles)
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/mangala-shri-bhuti-the-link/id350035466
http://chagdudrinpoche.com/podcast/index.xml
Gd luck, hope it helps!