History

Argon.Aid

Anyone can clarify certain facts on the history of this glorious world of ours.Lately,me and Ajani have been finding contradicting stuff in our textbooks and the opinions of the people on this forums.We are starting to doubt the credibility of what we actually know.
Can anyone help us?

Simonthepilgrim

History is a bunch of stories about things that may or may not have happened, written by people who were certainly not there!

There is no certainty about history. Examine the evidence. Take no one's word.

The 'first' historian, Herodotus, is sometimes called the "Father of History" but also the "Father of Lies"!

federica

The work you do in school, coupled with the exams you'll have to take, will be based on the literature and text books you are currently studying. Base your homework and exam answers on these then. Don't worry for the present about 'conflicting views of others on the forum' or doubting anything. Stick to the given script.

But as Simon has pointed out, History is a bunch of stories - or as I like to put it....
History is gossip with a college degree....!

When you get right down to it, it's researched fact liberally sprinkled with the personal point of view of the Author. In many cases, this may well be biased.
Take nothing at face value. This is why the Kalama Sutra can be applied to EVERYTHING you come across. And why I personally preface many of my 'Dharma subject' posts with: "Thus have I heard...."

twobitbob

i think it was Napoleon Bonepart who said ' what is history but a fable agreed upon.'

Hopefully they'll start teaching you about primary and secondary sources of historical knowledge and if you're really interested you could find the sources of evidence and come up with your own theories and conclusions.

ajani_mgo

Well sometimes we manage to find the real, unbiased version of history online... But heck! Singapore is a very restrictive society... It'd be illegal for me to get those stuff out, or even write it in exams.

ajani_mgo

May I please have someone to provide me with a factual, unbiased view of who do modern historians regard as the key person to enusring an Allied victory? Is it Churchill as our textbook claim?

Argon.Aid

I have to agree with Ajani.We both are now in a state of confusion as to what we are really learning.The main reason is not to score well in our studies,but to ensure that what we are learning now are true facts,not just stories.We don't want to continue learning what may be a far-fetched or exagerated form of History.

twobitbob

With something as complex as WW2 i think it impossible to quantify exactly whose action resulted in what. The guy in the front line is as much responsible as Churchill - who knows what slender threads seperated victory and defeat in the battlaground? And you must remember that all of our choices depend on half-chances anyway (will the weather be right to deploy this particular unit...). Churchill is exeplified as the hero of WW2 because he personified the British resistance of the Blitz - how much he actually contributed towards victory and how well someone else would have done in the same situation are questions that can never be answered to the degree of 'truth'.

History is not science and if you want exact answers i can't see how you'll get them without a time machine (even then you'll risk influencing what you observe). Just take things with a pinch of salt and try to learn the lessons history teaches us, even if they are stories ( e.g. i love the story of Jesus but think of it as a work of fiction.

ajani_mgo

When history is involved, I believe it's more than the story. It's FACT I need. True, perhaps history is not science, but history is a plane mirror. It is you, no doubt, but it's like... Different... About the same as the end-result of a historical cause that has been based on nothing but opinions alone... How I wish I had a second mirror behind, so that I could verify if it was my true image...

Argon.Aid

History concerns us.It was the events that lead to where we are now.So wouldn't it be depressing to note that all this while,we are learning athe wrong from of history,a slighty distorted version that is contorted to support other parties and not give a fair judgement.
We are not contented in knowing that history are stories.In fact,History is actually based on facts.One slight mistake in a textbook can have the whole school having misconceptions.For example,this may be my personal thoughts but our history books seem to go against the communists.
I am not stating that I am on the side of the Communists or Democracy.All I ask for is an unbiased,not distorted by any form of opinions facts on our History,what that makes the condition around us today.

twobitbob

Argon.Aid wrote:

.All I ask for is an unbiased,not distorted by any form of opinions facts on our History,what that makes the condition around us today.

i wish we had that, but we can't even get the facts on current events without getting someone elses opinion scewering it - so what hope for history?

i hope you can find a way to find the facts of history (let me know if you do) - i just don't think it can be done to the level of objectivity you guys want, and the further back you go the more distorted history will get. I think the important thing is not just to passively accept what is written in the text books as truth. It might be - but it might not. It looks like you guys are well ahead of the game on that score.

Simonthepilgrim

We are still far too close to the events of the 20th Century War to be able to discern the truth. It is not yet 'history', it is our story.

twobitbob

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

We are still far too close to the events of the 20th Century War to be able to discern the truth. It is not yet 'history', it is our story.

Do you mean we're too close to the truth to see it?

Simonthepilgrim

twobitbob wrote:

Do you mean we're too close to the truth to see it?

That, and the fact that the participants or their children are still around, protecting their 'good name'. Year by year, we learn more about what was really going on in Westminster, Washington and the Kremlin. I remember the screams that went up when it was revealed that Churchill was advised of the upcoming bombing raid on Coventry but refused to do anything because it would have alerted the Reich to our breaking of the Enigma codes.

The truth about our occupation of Germany and Austria is now leaking out, too.

And, in France, the films about the Terror and score-settling after the Liberation were banned for years. Similar stories that I have heard from Belgian former resistance workers have yet to be told.

I doubt whether we shall have any real perspective of the 20th Century War for at least another 50 years, and even then........ After all, the USA has been around for just over 200 years and I consider it too early to say whether the experiment has succeeded or failed.

ajani_mgo

Well... I guess you are right, simon... After watching so many shows on Discovery nowadays... I notice that century-old murders, motives, invasions... Everything historical... Was shrouded in myself for centuries... Even millenias... We'll be lucky if we actually can know the truth within 50 years I'd say...