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Metta

NidishNidish
edited October 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Till recently Metta was one of the things of Buddhism that i had no problem with practicing... But after i read this Buddhist quote,
"You yourself, as much as anyone else, deserve your love and affection",
I have become very thoughtful about practicing metta.. Some self-sacrifice has to happen in order for you to love someone else... But after reading the above, i was even led to a state where i thought of stopping my practice of metta(have not yet stopped :rolleyesc )...
Can anyone please tell me how to practice that kind of metta? Till now i have always tried to be as selfless as i could be...

Lots Of Love,
Nidish

Comments

  • username_5username_5
    edited September 2010
    It seems many have difficulty loving themselves. It is a truism that to love others we first have to love ourselves. To be compassionate toward others we must first be compassionate toward ourselves. You and I are equal. I am not worth more than you nor am I worth less than you. If I am deserving of your love and compassion then why wouldn't you also be worthy of your love and compassion?

    That's how I look at it anyway.
  • NidishNidish
    edited September 2010
    No.. What i am asking is, how to show ABUNDANT Love on others without much self sacrifice....
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Some self-sacrifice has to happen in order for you to love someone else

    Why do you think that?
  • shenpennangwashenpennangwa
    edited September 2010
    seeker242 wrote: »
    Why do you think that?
    Seconded.
    I would also be curious to know why you think this.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    No.. What i am asking is, how to show ABUNDANT Love on others without much self sacrifice....
    You are confusing metta with certain stereotypical acts of love. Metta is opening to experience: the experience of yourself, the experience of others, the experience of your hatred for Hitler. There's plenty of opening to experience to go around.

    The practice of cultivating metta starts with people because the emotion of love of a person is a form of metta we all have experience with. But it goes beyond feelings toward people, and it is different from a sacrificial act of love. In fact, its relationship to action of any kind is relatively indirect.
  • NidishNidish
    edited September 2010
    Well, i think so because... If we need to do something good for others, we need to do it as an extra to life.. We need to 'use up' our time in that... And that is sacrifice right?
  • JaliJali
    edited September 2010
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if you consider loving-kindness to be subject to the concept it being a finite resource, controlled and regulated by 'time' or 'effort' or 'self-sacrifice'.

    While you can't give someone something that you do not have (or experienced in this case) it also does not 'cost' you or require you to 'give something up'. It's not costing me time, or subtracting from some illusory metta-account-balance, to sit here and try to extend a heartfelt sense of well-being towards anyone. :)

    A gift given out of love or loving-kindness is never a sacrifice. It does not take away from you; it enriches you and the person being gifted, although the form of the given-and-gifted may change. Does that make sense? If it doesn't, I apologize - it's late and incoherency is setting in :D

    Jali
  • nanadhajananadhaja Veteran
    edited September 2010
    When we practise metta meditation we say" May all beings be happy.May all beings be free from suffering and the cause of suffering.May all beings know happiness and the cause of happiness.
    May I be happy.May I be free from suffering......"
    Its quick,easy and a great way to practise compassion.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited September 2010
    Jali wrote: »
    A gift given out of love or loving-kindness is never a sacrifice. It does not take away from you; it enriches you and the person being gifted, although the form of the given-and-gifted may change.

    i was about to say this. great joy is gained from giving.

    try to imagine, it's your lunch hour and you are very hungry. you just bought a sandwich from subway and are sitting in a park. you are about to eat it, when suddenly, you notice a small child looking at you with hungry eyes. she is very thin, dirty, obviously poor. she is eying your sandwich in a sorrowful way. you realize that you have the ability to buy another, so you simply give it to her. her eyes light up and thanks pour from her mouth.

    how does this scenario make you feel? you may be hungry, but i doubt that you are missing your sandwich. :) it is perception that labels it "suffering".
  • NidishNidish
    edited September 2010
    yea... I get it now...
  • painpain
    edited September 2010
    Happiness and joy is the result of compassion and love coming out of you. You're the one that benefits the most for your love for others.
  • TandaTanda Explorer
    edited September 2010
    I am saying this in the context of workplace injustice. It looks like that I must do something to defend my situation but then my act may hurt someone else. The options are either defend yourself or choose to be a loser.

    Yes, I can choose to be a loser and wrap up my mind in Budda's teachings of anicca anatta and all that but then it feels like escapism,the real hidden reason being lack of inclination to be assertive and be tough if situation warrants.

    That scenario conflicts with the idea of metta. I suppose that Baghavan Krishna's teaching to Arjun in Mahabharata-- to fight and even kill your grand father if war happens to be your Dharma--seems to make sense.

    For some one who is just taking faltering steps in Vipassana meditaion the question on metta has posed me a quesion:Am I Running in the opposite direction?
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited September 2010
    .

    For the benefit of anyone who's interested after looking at this thread, there's instruction on Metta meditation here, as well as information about the cultivation of loving kindness and the Four Sublime States.


    http://www.buddhanet.net/metta.htm




    .
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited September 2010
    I wouldn't say self-sacrifice has to occur when you love someone else; in the sense that you have to give something up.. a sort of doing before you can love. I would say that love cuts through your self.
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited September 2010
    You sacrifice Dosa (hatred/ill-will) when you develop Metta. Not much of a sacrifice when you think about it.
  • NidishNidish
    edited October 2010
    Bu, doesn't Metta also involve love for those hurting us? For example, when I have some fever or something, if I show love towards the Viruses/ Bacterium causing trouble, I am actually Killing myself right?

    Love,
    Nidish
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    edited October 2010
    This is a good topic, Nidish, thanks. I have similar thoughts to that of yourself. My problem is that I have a family and I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous; and I also have a car, a phone, and an abundant supply of people to help.

    I also have what is called a sponsor (he's my spiritual guide through the program of AA) and he tells me that I cannot save the World, and that I should make time for myself.

    But often I find I'm drawn into situations where I'm helping someone, but neglecting my family, or I'm helping my family and I'm neglecting a drunk (who I could be driving to an AA meeting for example).

    I can't seem to get the right view and effort right; getting balance has always been a problem for me. AA tells me I should make myself useful to others (it's ingrained into our program), Buddhism seems to have a similar message; i.e. relieve suffering; but I find by helping some, I neglect others, and finding a middle way isn't easy.

    I have also suffered with 'neglected wife syndrome' in the past (that is actually one of the worst forms of suffering) because of helping drunks, though Mrs Tosh knows why I do it.

    I'm not looking for an answer, I'll find one, but that's often my problem.
  • nanadhajananadhaja Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    Bu, doesn't Metta also involve love for those hurting us? For example, when I have some fever or something, if I show love towards the Viruses/ Bacterium causing trouble, I am actually Killing myself right?

    Love,
    Nidish
    Hi Nidish.It is true that metta extends to those who are hurting us.In fact it is easy to give metta to those who are not hurting us so perhaps if you can have metta for those who do try and hurt us it is even more powerful.
    The topic of bacteria or virusus can be a little tricky.Some people will say that they are not sentient beings as we know sentience(myself included) and others may disagree on this.However,as a monk there are certain things which I am allowed.
    1-Robes
    2-Alms food
    3-Shelter
    4-Medicine
    There are actually 1 or 2 other things such as razor and strainer but the point I am making is medicine is allowed.So from my own point of view,if this was allowed for the benefit of the bhikkus then I guess the question of viruses was a non question.
    I hope this helps a little.:)
  • NidishNidish
    edited October 2010
    There are actually 1 or 2 other things such as razor and strainer but the point I am making is medicine is allowed.So from my own point of view,if this was allowed for the benefit of the bhikkus then I guess the question of viruses was a non question.
    I hope this helps a little.
    Can you tell me why they are not sentient beings and why medicine is allowed for Bikkhus(I know it is O.K to sustain life, but The Buddha has asked us to refrain from killing right?)


    Love And Light,
    Nidish
  • UnlikelybdstUnlikelybdst
    edited October 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    Can you tell me why they are not sentient beings

    Viruses are not living things - they are chunks of proteins floating around. Bacteria don't have a nervous system or any sense organs - they are very very simple biological machines. That's why these are not "sentient" - they can't perceive things or feel anything.
  • NidishNidish
    edited October 2010
    Unlikelybdst wrote: »
    Viruses are not living things - they are chunks of proteins floating around. Bacteria don't have a nervous system or any sense organs - they are very very simple biological machines. That's why these are not "sentient" - they can't perceive things or feel anything.
    But they still are alive right? And for that, they will surely have the 5 aggregates which includes perception... And anything that percieves is sentient :P
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2010
    My understanding is that there is a mandala of beings who you are connected to. Some closer and some more distant. Extending all the way to beings who you have never met. If we don't take care of our own needs we are less able to help others. If we feel loved and our needs met then naturally we are going to have less problems helping others.

    Trungpa rinpoche teaches metta (karuna, mudita, upeka) as for yourself and then letting that love naturally radiate out to all beings.

    Have you ever noticed how when you are in a great mood that you are kinder and more at ease with people. More resilient to stress?
  • nanadhajananadhaja Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    But they still are alive right? And for that, they will surely have the 5 aggregates which includes perception... And anything that percieves is sentient :P
    A vegetable is alive Nidish.Some would even say that they have perception,feel pain etc.I still would not class a carrot as a sentient being.
    With metta
  • TreeLuvr87TreeLuvr87 Veteran
    edited October 2010
    If it's really difficult for you to grasp, continue with your normal metta meditation but also try to do some extensive meditating on the interbeing of everything. You aren't even separate from the people you've been sending metta to, even though it definitely seems that our forms are separate entities. Meditate on interbeing and the ability to see yourself in the same light as you see others will develop naturally. Your apprehension to giving yourself metta, which all beings inherently have the right to, is enough of an indicator that you need to be sending yourself all you can! And it's true what others have said in the thread. You think that if you focus on yourself it's selfish, but it's not. Only when you truly care for, love, and can feel comfortable sending metta to yourself will you able to send out even more metta and do even more good things for others.

    Relax, things will come to you as long as you're putting one foot forward on the path. That's my favorite thing to remember when I'm confused.
  • NidishNidish
    edited October 2010
    nanadhaja wrote: »
    A vegetable is alive Nidish.Some would even say that they have perception,feel pain etc.I still would not class a carrot as a sentient being.
    With metta
    Hey :confused: ... Can you tell me What Exactly I need to start doing now? And, Can you also tell me how to send metta to myself without getting over-obsessed with myself?

    Love,
    Nidish
  • nanadhajananadhaja Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    Hey :confused: ... Can you tell me What Exactly I need to start doing now? And, Can you also tell me how to send metta to myself without getting over-obsessed with myself?

    Love,
    Nidish
    OK Nidish.Here is what I do.
    I say this everyday and it is quick and easy.
    May all sentient beings be happy
    May they all be healthy
    May they all be free from suffering
    May they all attain perfect peace or nibbana in the shortest possible time.

    May I be happy
    May I be healthy
    May I be free from suffering
    May I attain perfect peace or nibbana in the shortest possible time.
    We often wish good things for others and sometimes forget ourselves.
    If you can be happy,healthy etc this is seen and felt by others and so can help them too.
    Good luck
    With metta:)
  • NidishNidish
    edited October 2010
    nanadhaja wrote: »
    OK Nidish.Here is what I do.
    I say this everyday and it is quick and easy.
    May all sentient beings be happy
    May they all be healthy
    May they all be free from suffering
    May they all attain perfect peace or nibbana in the shortest possible time.

    May I be happy
    May I be healthy
    May I be free from suffering
    May I attain perfect peace or nibbana in the shortest possible time.
    We often wish good things for others and sometimes forget ourselves.
    If you can be happy,healthy etc this is seen and felt by others and so can help them too.
    Good luck
    With metta:)
    But what about the feeling part? We are supposed to feel benevolent right? How am I supposed to do that for myself?
  • nanadhajananadhaja Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    But what about the feeling part? We are supposed to feel benevolent right? How am I supposed to do that for myself?
    How can you be benevolent towards yourself?
    How about the times you make a mistake,maybe you slip up and break a precept.Tell yourself its ok to slip up.Say to your self""It's ok Nidish,try harder next time" "We all make mistakes"Just by thinking May I be happy etc is being benevolent to your self.Or maybe just buy yourself a chocolate bar and say"there you go mate,thats for you"
    :)
    With metta
  • NidishNidish
    edited October 2010
    :) Thank you very much... I sure will try it out...
  • ananda_kumarananda_kumar
    edited October 2010
    Hmm... Maybe I'm taking a different point of view, but I've found that what is best for me is best for others too. The difficulty is understanding what is really best for me and what I want right then in the moment. Generally if I take a moment to think about it, I find that what is best for me in the long run is also best for my family and community.

    Now with bacteria- or even with animals or the larger biosphere- this is certainly a problem. Part of this I just don't worry about honestly. It's best for me and my family if I kill the bacteria in my tummy that make me sick. Also though I try to be an ethical consumer and practice conservation, I admit that my living in society is going to be bad for animals around here. Yesterday I hit a robin driving down the road. It was flying with its mate. The mate lived. Ouch.

    Then it gets even more difficult when we are talking of people. My neighbords in India were the house help of my landlord and I know that their children were not getting fed as well as I was and they had no hot water or indoor plumbing so I told them that they could send their kids to my house in the mornings for these things. It started a cycle where by the end they were taking advantage of me for cooking fuel, food, money, sending their friends to do the jobs I needed (when my roof leaked, ex) and they even siphoned my gas. So what to do? If I were in their place I'd probably do the same thing, but since I was in my place, this was a major problem. How to protect myself and also do the right thing by fellow humans?

    In the end, what I like most about Buddhism is that it doesn't seek to answer these questions. What it does is teach you to think about each situation so that you can make the right choices, without clouded thought, as the situation arises.

    So don't stop trying to increase your practice of empathy and compassion. Just learn to use those feelings to guide you in your daily choices.

    Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about. lol
  • ananda_kumarananda_kumar
    edited October 2010
    No technically viruses are not alive, at least not in the way that we understand life.
    http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/yellowstone/viruslive.html

    And I'm certain they do not have the five aggregates. I'm pretty sure that many living things do not have the five aggregates including bacteria and plants and some animals maybe even.
  • exonesionexonesion
    edited October 2010
    Nidish wrote: »
    Till recently Metta was one of the things of Buddhism that i had no problem with practicing... But after i read this Buddhist quote,
    "You yourself, as much as anyone else, deserve your love and affection",
    I have become very thoughtful about practicing metta.. Some self-sacrifice has to happen in order for you to love someone else... But after reading the above, i was even led to a state where i thought of stopping my practice of metta(have not yet stopped :rolleyesc )...
    Can anyone please tell me how to practice that kind of metta? Till now i have always tried to be as selfless as i could be...

    Lots Of Love,
    Nidish

    Being kind to others is like being kind to yourself.
    For instance, metta meditation or simply metta is like holding up a lighted candle for all to see.
    The light being the metta and the person being yourself. The light can be seen far away and many can enjoy the light. Even if you send metta to all sentient beings you'll still see the light and receive the benefits of metta for yourself as it is just in front of you.
    Don't worry about not being able to send metta to yourself. Sending metta to other is sending metta to yourself. :D
    Practicing loving-kindness meditation is loving yourself.
  • JRFibonacciJRFibonacci
    edited July 2012
    A fresh, practical perspective on the reality of suffering (or what someone called "self-obsessing" in this thread), the reality of the cause of suffering (that suffering is just a symptom), and so on....

    "What is agonizing? When I believe that I really need to know something that I do not know, repeating that sincere belief is agonizing. “I really need to know what I do not know. Something I do not know yet is what I really need to know already, or at least very, very soon….”
    That is also the activity of frustrating. “But, I REALLY need to know this one thing that that I just do not know yet, and it is so tragic and frightening and sad and disappointing and I just do not know what to do about not knowing what to do!” That is agonizing. We might even call it angst or grief or grieving or distressing (or just whining and complaining).
    When the activity of agonizing is clear as an activity, then there is no agonizing about the idea that “I may agonize in the future,” for there no urgency to prevent something that is easily ceased. People can ask me “yeah, but all that is clearly SOOO complicated and confusing and so must be only for VERY advanced masters, so how does someone like me stop agonizing.”
    How to stop agonizing may seem so mysterious at one stage and at another stage is ridiculously simple, like asking “how do I stop facing east?” Just face any other direction!

    ...."
This discussion has been closed.