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The best way to learn?
Jason
God EmperorArrakis Moderator
Brian wrote:"Anyways, as a topic of discussion: Do you think that the best learning comes from our personal experiences, or can you learn as deeply from teachers, books, or contemplation?”
This thread got me thinking about just what, and how the Buddha taught. In particular, I was wondering just how did he teach his followers to understand and realize the Dhamma for themselves?
Your first impulse may be to say the Noble Eightfold Path. That in itself is a good answer, however, what does that Path entail? Does it mean that we should learn only by direct experiences, or is there a combination of that and something else? To find the answer I began looking into the various suttas for some hint of the Buddha’s general teaching structure. The Noble Eightfold Path has eight distinct subjects, but those subjects become very broad and all encompassing when you divide them into their constituents. But, just as they can be broadened, they can also be condensed into three easier to deal with sections.
The Buddha did not advise anyone to strive for Awakening without some guidance. If the Path to this realization of Truth was so easily found and simple to follow, there would be no such need for a ”Turner of the Wheel”. However, this Path is not so easily found and simple to follow. As the Buddha thought to himself after his self-awakening:
"This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, peaceful, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be experienced by the wise. But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment. For a generation delighting in attachment, excited by attachment, enjoying attachment, this/that conditionality and dependent co-arising are hard to see. This state, too, is hard to see: the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding. And if I were to teach the Dhamma and if others would not understand me, that would be tiresome for me, troublesome for me." - SN VI.1
To actually “see” what the Buddha was pointing at for ourselves we must practice a combination of meditation and contemplation of Dhamma. While it is true that there are those who can just “hear” the Dhamma and attain the fruits of the Path, those people are few and far between. That level of achievement depends heavily upon past kamma (actions) and ripening conditions, which the average wanderer in samsara (cycle of rebirth) does not possess. The most difficult part of the equation is how do you teach something that is beyond conditions, concepts, or worldly phenomena? No language or method of analysis can really impart these Truths to an individual in and of themselves. It is a realization that is born from experience coupled with insight. So, the Buddha devised a way for practitioners to gain both – the Noble Eightfold Path. Through this Path the Buddha combines wholesome living (sila/virtue), meditation (samadhi/concentration), and contemplation of the teachings (panna/discernment). These three intertwined modes of training help to give rise to the Factors for Awakening.
Sila, or virtue was taught by the Buddha as a foundation for the Factors for Awakening. This can be seen from various Suttas including the Kimattha Sutta and the Cetana Sutta. The training of virtue is best known by the Five Precepts:
1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.
However, there is also Right Speech, Right Action, and Right Livelihood as well. Without this solid base of virtue one cannot achieve a sufficent state of mental calm and absorption. Before you walk, you need to crawl as the old saying goes. Having Right Intentions is the very essence of virtue. As the first two lines of the Dhammapada state:
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow. - Dhp I
Moving on, we have samadhi, or concentration. Concentration covers many things, including meditation. Samadhi and panna go hand in hand. Here is a line from the Dhammapada, translated by Acharya Buddharakkhita:
There is no meditative concentration for him who lacks insight, and no insight for him who lacks meditative concentration. He in whom are found both meditative concentration and insight, indeed, is close to Nibbana. - Dhp XXV
Often it can seem almost impossible to differentiate between the two. Many of the mindfulness meditations can lead to insight as well concentration, while many insight meditations can lead to states of concentration. The type of concentration that the Buddha is referring to specifically is called Jhana (meditative absorption). This is also known as "ending the mental fermentations". The basic quality here is that there is only one focus of mindful-awareness. This focus can eventually lead one to a state of rapture or joy, which is a factor of the first Jhana, all the way on through to the formless attainments - the highest of which is called "the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception". The method that the Buddha taught most often for achieveing this meditative awareness was mindfulness of breathing. The practice of samadhi has many benefits, which most importantly includes temporarily subduing the nivarana (five hindrances), which are sensual desire, ill-will, sloth and drowsiness, restlessness and worry, and doubt. The Bhikkhunupassaya Sutta gives an account of this practice. Once the mind is calm, clear, focused, concentrated, and free of the five hindrances it is then better able to perform the next mode of training - discernment.
Panna, or discernment (like concentration) has many different aspects to it. In my view it can also include vipassana (insight) because discernment is basically seeing things as they are in relation to the three characteristics of existence--dukkha (stressful), anicca (impermanent), and anatta (not-self). This is especially useful for the contemplation of the five aggregates as advised in the Silavant Sutta:
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. Which five? Form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. A virtuous monk should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. For it is possible that a virtuous monk, attending in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant... not-self, would realize the fruit of stream-entry." - SN XXII.122
Discernment can also include things like the contemplation the five subjects of frequent reflection (see the Upajjhattana Sutta) or any of the other teachings suitable for penetration by the mind’s discriminating awareness i.e. contemplation of the body, contemplation of death, etc. In essence, after a person has acquired a solid foundation of virtue, and when the mind has been calmed to a point of focused awareness, it can then proceed to “experience” life in the profound context of Dhamma:
"There is the case where the disciple of the noble ones recollects the Dhamma, thus: 'The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One, to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves.' As he is recollecting the Dhamma, his mind is calmed, and joy arises; the defilements of his mind are abandoned, just as when the body is cleansed through the proper technique. And how is the body cleansed through the proper technique? Through the use of scouring balls & bath powder & the appropriate human effort. This is how the body is cleansed through the proper technique. In the same way, the defiled mind is cleansed through the proper technique. And how is the defiled mind cleansed through the proper technique? There is the case where the disciple of the noble ones recollects the Dhamma... As he is recollecting the Dhamma, his mind is cleansed, and joy arises; the defilements of his mind are abandoned. He is thus called a disciple of the noble ones undertaking the Dhamma-Uposatha. He lives with Dhamma. It is owing to Dhamma that his mind is calmed, that joy arises, and that whatever defilements there are in his mind are abandoned. This is how the mind is cleansed through the proper technique." - AN III.70
It is not by simply experiencing life that we can realize the Unconditioned, nor is it by simply reading the Suttas, or listening to Dhamma talks. It is a combination of all three which can help to free the mind of its defilements. This is likened to the Three Refuges of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. If you experience life only through the perspectives of greed, hatred, and delusion then you are doomed to live in avijja (ignorance). It is only by experiencing life in reference to the Dhamma that we can get a clear view of what this existence is really like. The Dhamma is one word, which mirrors many faces – the Three Characteristics of Existence, the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, Dependent co-arising, the Laws of Kamma and Rebirth, etc.
Whenever you are in doubt, you may know the Dhamma by its qualities:
"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may definitely hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'" – AN VIII.53
As always, this is just my interpretation of what I have read, and learned throughout my years of studying the Suttas. If there are any mistakes in spelling, grammar, or content please forgive me. This post is not meant to say that this is the only way to look at the Path to Awakening, but merely the general structure formulated from the teachings of the Pali Canon as I understand them. I hope that you find this summary informative, as well as interesting.
Sincerely,
Jason
0
Comments
Would all contributors please try to therefore stay 'on topic' when responding?
This should apply to all "stickied" topics, wherever possible. many thanks.
Here is a link to a variety of Sutras from the Mahayana tradition:
Mahayana Buddhist Sutras
Here is a link to a variety of Suttas, books, and essays from the Theravada tradition:
A Theravada Library
Here is a link to a site focusing on the Buddhism of Sri Lanka:
Metta Net
Here is a link to a variety of teachings by Burmese monastics:
The Dhamma
Here is a link to yet more Burmese teachings:
eDhamma
Here is a link to a dictionary of Pali proper names:
Pali Proper Names
Here is a link to a dictionary of Pali terms and doctrines:
Pali Terms and Doctrines
Here is a link to another good site I found:
Kalachakra Net
Here is a link to a gigantic collection of books, Suttas, and essays to read:
Buddhasasana
Here is a link to another large collection of books, articles, essays, etc:
Sacred Texts: Buddhism
And a few sites with audio Dhamma talks to listen to:
Dhamma talks by Venerable Bhikkhu Khemasanto of Dhammasala Forest Monastery:
Dhammsala
Dhamma talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu of Wat Metta Forest Monastery:
Metta Forest
These Dhamma talks of Than Acharn Maha Boowa have been translated by a Thai Bhikkhu into English:
Luangta
Here are some audio archives of the Majhima Nikaya class given by Bhikku Bodhi:
Bodhi Monastery
Dhamma talks from the Buddhist Society of Western Australia:
Buddhist Society of Western Australia
Dhamma talks in Thai Forest Tradition:
Dhamma Talks
Buddhanet Audio - This is a mixed collection of Audio Dharma talks by Buddhist teachers of various traditions:
Buddha Net
Audio Dharma - Site containing hundreds of dhamma talks:
Audio Dharma
Sayalay Dipankara's Dhamma talks:
Cakkavala 1
Abhidhamma Talks by Sayalay Susila:
Cakkavala 2
Dhamma talks by various teachers including Ven U Pandita and Ven U Silananda:
Tathagata
Dhamma talks by various teachers:
Dharma Stream
Sadhu! dhamma talks:
Sadhu! Dhamma Talks
Translated talks by Harada Tangen-roshi:
Mahajana
Lam Rim, Tibetan Buddhist Internet Radio:
Lam Rim
I hope you find these helpful.
Enjoy
Jason
I really think its both, don't you all?
Refusal to learn, humbly, from those who know more than we do can be an outward sign of inward, spiritual pride. Buddhism presents us with an extraordinary challenge: it is up to each individual to discern the limits of acceptance of teaching offered. In a highly individualistic, ego-centred culture such as ours, we no longer have the reflex of guru reverence. The Buddha's admonition to his hearers to "suck it and see", apparently putting the onus for discovery on each searcher anew, is attractive to the frontier ideal, the prevailing Pelagian myth that we make our own salvation.
As far as I can unpick the intertwining of teacher, student and teaching, over-emphasis on either the role of the teacher or of that of the student tends to ignore the important factor of relationship. Time and again, in Buddhist, Sufi and Christian writings, I come across this crucial element: the intense relationship of mutual trust and respect that exists, ideally, between teacher and student.
In modern, evangelical Christianity, great stress is laid on the notion of what is called a "personal relationship with the Risen Christ". If I understand the language correctly, this may, at the extreme, involve the student (or "believer") in a full-blown experience which is, however, entirely private and personal. Out of this "encounter", a growing understanding and a deepening practice result from what is experienced as a moment-by-moment relationship. The Eastern concept of the guru has much the same effect on the student, creating a relationship which enables teaching and learning to take place.
Having spent most of my life around psychology and teaching professionals, having listened to their stories/case histories, and having more than three decades' worth of feedback from those who have availed themselves of my services as a counsellor/psychotherapist/spiritual director, sit is clear to me that there is something truly mysterious about this process of relationship. My TA teachers, innovators and explorers all, thought they could delineate and describe it. Freud and so many since have tried - and failed - to find the formula for it. In some ways, it is like trying to describe a sound: we can only use similes and approximations.
On these boards, we can notice the desire for the relationship that teaches and heals. It is what drives each of us towards each other because we know that, alone, we shall learn very little other than bare survival. One of my favourite mottoes from AA meetings was the one that runs Together we can!
They're equally good, IMHO....
However life would be very short if we had to learn every lesson ourselves.
Not all personal experiences are as effective at understanding something someone may understand better though. Take instruction manuals for example, i never ever read them. Preferring to try and work the thing out myself, probably 9/10 times ill get cought out on something i missed.
I think even when we experience something, we dont neccesarily understand it completely.
http://www.about.com
Also another quiet envolved reading is the american buddhist church , church manual an e-mail book of around 284 pages, light reading to heavy reading.
Although I believe you have to belong to the church to get the manual
POB;)
Autobiography in 5 chapters
(quoted in "The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying")
1) I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost.....I am Hopeless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.
2) I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I'm in the same place.
But it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
3) I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in......it's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.
4) I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
5) I walk down another street.
Portia Nelson
Worth a look!
when one learns from anothers experiences, naturally they are drawn,destin to follow with a thought process, and then they master the skill when an experience sets in and they begin to practice..
that is inregards to what jen122121 asked. :So you can learn from other peoples experiences but is it possible to master a skill if you don't experience or pratice it yourself?
which brings us back to yes learning comes from both ways..