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Karma defense against knife attack
On a visit to London, while you are walking you get lost and find yourself walking through an unknown suberb.
Unknown to you, the area that you are about to enter is a very rough no go area known for violent crimes commited by young unemployed territory obsessed drug dealers. People who glorify and enjoy violence and distruction.
As you walk around a corner, a couple of hooded youths slip behind you and pull knives out, ready to stab you for coming into their territory.
No talking to them will calm them or change their mind as to what cause of action to take. They are going to stab you in the back and leave you to bleed to death with out a second thought.
What do you do.
Embrace your Karma?
Meditate?
Prey to Buddha to forgive them?
Ignore them, and hope they will disappear?
Will your spiritual beliefs protect you from the knives?
Are you a bulletproof monk?
Unknown to you, the area that you are about to enter is a very rough no go area known for violent crimes commited by young unemployed territory obsessed drug dealers. People who glorify and enjoy violence and distruction.
As you walk around a corner, a couple of hooded youths slip behind you and pull knives out, ready to stab you for coming into their territory.
No talking to them will calm them or change their mind as to what cause of action to take. They are going to stab you in the back and leave you to bleed to death with out a second thought.
What do you do.
Embrace your Karma?
Meditate?
Prey to Buddha to forgive them?
Ignore them, and hope they will disappear?
Will your spiritual beliefs protect you from the knives?
Are you a bulletproof monk?
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Comments
It might never happen.:buck:
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The imaginary scenario was created in order to get people to realize that some places in Samsara are dangerous and in some circumstances meditating and being nice will not be enough to save your life (thus losing out on your opportunity of enlightenment)
However, being practical is.
Yes, because your spiritual beliefs will tell you to run away. (unless you happen to know kung fu)
Why do you separate them into 2 different things?
Spiritual people can sometimes wear "rose tinted" spectacles, and hold the belief that because they live a faultless life, no harm can come to them.
This is foolish thinking, in my opinion, and people need to be conscious how dangerous Samsara is so that they can take precautions.
I am trying to help people protect themselves by getting them to be aware that there are people in this life that are intentionally bad who can and will hurt them if they get the opportunity.
I don't care how spiritual I may become I don't think I will ever regard it as wise to go around kissing cobras.
I'm a pacifist, sure. But I'll still defend myself and others if the situation arises, but I always do whatever I can to avoid such a situation. And if it cannot be avoided, and no one else is as risk other than myself then I just try to remove myself from said situation if possible.
In reality, even though they are mentally disfigured with hatred and violence, they're still human. If you don't act scared, but also don't act tough, apologise for being in their "hood" and explain you're lost, then they'll more than likely just mug you and let you leave.
I really don't know what I'll do if I'm in London and confronted by some knife-wielding thugs.
I lived in London for 27 years, and this has never happened to me, either in daylight or after dark either in the city or the suburbs...
London is actually quite a safe place.
Where in London would you think this would happen?
Do you live near somewhere with a dangerous, violent and sinister reputation?
I'd move if I were you, and pre-empt any possible such scenario....
Boy, you sure do mix with some nice neighbours!
Ok, so it's curtains....
I have a choice....?
First of all, I'd turn on them and begin yelling at the top of my voice, and advance on them angrily. That always unnerves them. They don't expect this.... When are you not meditating? :winkc:
Why would I pray to Buddha to forgive them?
Buddha isn't god, and he's dead, so i don't think praying to buddha to forgive them is a logical option.
Better to pray you can forgive them...
yeah, that's likely to happen. Who am I, Derren Brown?
Of course not. That's utterly ridiculous. did Gandhi's spiritual beliefs protect him from the bullet?
Spiritual beliefs protect you from your own unskillfulness. They protect you from Straying from the Eightfold path. Your spiritual beliefs keep you in the Right frame of Mind in such situations.
have you been reading my CV again.....??:D
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Thanks for the.... umm... advice?
Depends, are their heads shaved?
It seems to me that London being the location of this incident is just as hypothetical as the incident itself. There's no need to respond as if de_void was attacking London or intentionally stereotyping it.
Hypothetical questions usually require a little suspension of disbelief. Admittedly, it is highly unlikely and a bit extreme, but it does illustrate the Middle Path.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8&feature=related
Then why mention any city at all?
London has garnered a poor reputation for being one of the worst hot-spots for violence, and muggings and nothing could be further from the Truth. Out of 100 cities, London came fairly low on the list....
I merely objected to the singular example. As an erstwhile inhabitant, I think I have a right to make that point.
I fight.
It has nothing to do with karma.
I meditate when I get home after successfully defending myself.
I pray when I get home afterwords.
My spiritual beliefs wont protect me from knives but hopefully my self-defense skills will.
There is nothing wrong with defending yourself.
Just because we are Buddhists doesnt mean we have to be willing victims or doormats.
Knifings happen regularly on a weekly basis in some area's and are often unprovoked and achieved by the use of stealth (criminal method of sneeking up on people to stab, usually in the back as easy to fight someone who doesn't know your there and can not see you).
Croydon has had a bit of a reputation for a few years.
I think that people are generally getting more violent as the years roll by.
Even in Jersey Channel Islands, it is no longer unheard of to hear of a stabbing, a glassing or a serious assault when perhaps 20 years a go, this would be unheard of.
I also lived in Liverpool for 3 years, which could be a bit dicey at times and some areas had a bad reputation too.
Not that I think I am Lama or anything.
I think that some of members would reply differently.
Just shows you the nature of prejudice.
In what way?
I imagine that people wouldn't start arguing about miniscule detail, which to me looks like arguing for the sake of arguing which to some extent takes away from the essence of the activity.
No offense towards yourself.
No offense taken. I was just curious.
I agree with the rude aspect but I think a lot of people would try to give the most accurate answer with the details if its within their capacity. I know I would.
Obvious facts are obvious, and the cynic in me will raise an eyebrow at anyone who makes any sort of absurd claim such as karma/beliefs protecting oneself from physical harm, no matter their "authority." Authority is constructed and not absolute or inherent.
This is sort of unrelated, and I'm not saying you're doing this, but the whole thing about "spiritual beliefs giving powers" reminds me of the Falun Gong believe that if practitioners can harness qi enough, they can perform incredible energy feats. Think Dragonball Z or something. But they're not allowed to actually show anyone, or it would violate their Falun Gong ethics or something.
What's the answer you wanted to hear? Frankly I think running, defending yourself, etc. are rather good responses. A person who would sit there and let someone attack them thinking "ah well must be karma wtf can ya do" or who would pray to the Buddha instead of kicking the weapon-wielding violent attacker in the nuts is, quite flatly, a moron. :skeptical
While some here may have outwardly responded differently had Teh Boodah asked this question, I would imagine they'd all still be WTFing inwardly.
I entirely doubt that the Dalai Lama would even ask such a question, frankly.
Why would he?
I don'r see why you should look upon this as prejudice.
Could you point out where you feel prejudice has been demonstrated against you?
One could say you are showing prejudice against London, couldn't one?
I personally took the question and evaluated it, and gave it an answer.
One must expect a diversity of responses according to perception.
I think you have a good cross-selection of replies.
Someone skilled will conceal the weapon and stab before anyone has time to react.
Thankfully, most attackers are not skilled.
Once one has the skill to defend against a knife, I teach that the motivation must be to do what is best in order to cause the least harrm to both attacker and attacked.
As a Buddhist, I do not want the bad karma of damaging someone else, nor do I want them to create bad karma through injuring or possibly killing me.
If The Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) appeared before me and asked this question I'm fairly certain I'd have 5-6 wtf moments instantaneously. Then I'd give the best answer I could and invite him to tea. I think an important thing to remember is that we willingly read these threads and then willingly respond to them. If they OP does not interest you, then there is no reason to respond. Responding in a negative manner only cause undue suffering.
I am genuinely curious to hear what answer the OP thought would be appropriate to his question.
:dunce: YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!! :rarr:
Seriously the Dharma doesn't say you will never come to harm. What if you are in a traffic accident or have cancer? I would remember my guru and make wishes to come to safety then run if they only have knives. And do what they say if they have guns unless they will abuse me and then maybe just charge them and die.
I have learned knife defense too. Some techniques come from Ninjutsu, some from Krav Maga, all very useful and efficient. But here is the problem I see with your philosophy. Self defense against a weapon isn't Buddhist philosophy. In all the attacks I learned, once you disarm your opponent you grab the knife and you use it on your attacker. What happens if you don't? They will probably continue to fight, because they don't want to be arrested, and possibly injure you more, or kill you.
If you have to strike someone in self defense you should strike them the hardest you can, so they don't get up. That is why you should never strike someone. But if you do have to, and you hesitate, they win because they had no intention to hesitate. When someone has a knife and is going to attack you they won't hesitate to kill you. So hesitating to think about karma and safety of your opponent is something that would weaken a the potential efficiency of your defense.
I know gang members, so it's easy for me to put myself in their state of mind. If I was robbing someone with a knife and they didn't kill me I would either take their money or kill them for resisting for sure. That is the state of mind of someone trying to rob you with a knife.
The best defense is actually to run. But for those who can't run well, you must be more potentially fierce than your attacker, as they have the intention to rob you at all costs. You must have the intention to stop them at all costs.
I walk alone at night, in gang filled streets, but I think they all know already that trying to rob me would get them no where lol. As I am a tough fight and I barely have any money. They tend to go after easy prey.
"Metta (Mettanisamsa) Sutta: Good Will" (AN 11.16), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, July 4, 2010, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.016.than.html
Even if you are killed at least you will "die unconfused" and be reborn in the Brahma realms.
The quote is actually "The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn!"
Gandalf is talking to the Balrog... unless you were trying to say that the Balrog will not avail knife-wielding hoodies
1) Don't be there in the first place
2) Comply with demands unless you're rationally convinced they plan to maim/kill you (unlikely since they gain nothing)
3) Run
4) Break them
I don't buy the notion that defending your body sacrifices enlightenment.
Also, some evidence which is undeniable is the fact that 97% of these knife crimes in london are committed by african americans. I am not beign racist as I am one of the least racist people alive, it is just statistics. If you are a caucasian or of another origin and walk through a London borough you will either get mugged, laughed at or left alone. Maybe ruffed up a little but they wouldn't just stab you like that for no reason what so ever.
Personally if I was stupid enough to get the tube and walk around the boroughs of east London and I got approached, I would tell them I am from bristol where I was brought up and then hand over my stuff pronto.
Knife crime in London got loads of press coverage last year, the spotlight seems to have been taken away a little now. I assume it is still as bad though. These kids need some direction in life, education and stimulation is needed to take them off the streets and out of these post card gangs
It's certainly not me. Never read the books and tried to watch one of the movies, but fell asleep about 20 minutes in.
Wouldn't they be African Europeans? If they are in the US then they are African American, but I don't think too many vacation in London so they can stab folks for pocket change
I have two very good on-line buddies who live in America and are furious they keep being referred to as 'African American' when they actually hail from Trinidad.
In fact, they aren't even first-generation Trinidadians.... they were born in America, as was their mother. They consider themselves to be 100% Americans, but just of a different colour to others, due to ancestry.
All this "African American" rubbish is brainless. Most people with African ancestry in America have never even seen Africa, let alone come from there.
The majority of knife crime in London is black on black, and usually it's of West-Indian making.
The other problem is that an awful lot of young west-indian and Asian lads are torn apart by stringent tradition at home, vs liberal hyper-relaxed attitudes "on the street." They're pulled apart by two cultures, and they're neither one thing nor the other.
They have a chip on their shoulder, and a bad "you owe me" attitude.
It's a huge inter-gang problem, more than one which poses problems to the ordinary citizen.
If you claim to have martial arts skills and stab them when they are unarmed, expect to be in prison even longer.
In my experience, a disarmed person who is not too damaged by your defence will run.
You have their knife. Guys on PCP or otherwise feeling no pain, must be disabled, but stabbing them is never necessary. My only exception would be if attacked by more than one person.
Kids in the UK often have this notion that carrying a knife will protect them somehow - it can end up with them being stabbed with their own knife. Some now carry meat cleavers, actually easier to defend against IMHO. Here's a gentle intro about gang kids in Manchester:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyU2z-FJr8
Kids with knives is a nationwide problem. The law is crazy - they'll confiscate a middle aged guy's pocket knife because it has a lock and treat him the same as a kid with a machette. They have knife amnesties with grannies handing in their kitchen knives - strangely, I'm told few gang members pop into the police station to hand in their weapons. Gangs are everywhere, even in the rural towns. I've taken sharps and also drug paraphernalia from kids in rural schools.
Causing the least damage possible is not only good in terms of karma, but also in terms of the law. We must remember that stopping these kids from harming us is not only protecting them from bad karma, but from a long stay in jail where they are likely to meet more drugs and violence etc.
In Australia in the popular media this evening, Sudanese community leaders were quoted as calling for less leniency towards offenders who have been convicted of engaging in intra racial gang fighting here in Adelaide ( small Australian city which now has a significant Sudanese community as part of our multicultural society ) in favour of a commitment to address the factors which lead to the problem ie. identity and social issues, cultural expression and undertsanding of the culture within wider society.
lol, In the UK if it is your first offense and you happen to murder this person, you can expect 15 years and serve half of that and be out back on the streets
This hasn't been my experience as a teacher with inner city black or mixed race teenagers. Quite often they come from one-parent families where the fathers have refused to take any responsibility for their sons. The (western-cultural preferences with little Caribbean influence)mothers are often stressed and worn out from doing 2 jobs to keep the family going -and are unable to influence their sons. As was already mentioned, a lot of kids carry weapons for 'protection'.
Having worked with many adorable 'tough' inner-city teenagers with emotional and behavioral problems, as well as having in-depth chats with mothers and families, I can say that there are many causes and conditions which make them the way they are - and most certainly not necessarily a 'chip on the shoulder' or 'you owe me' attitude.
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Why the 'lol' - laugh out loud?
If you're 16 and get 7 or 8 years in jail then when you emerge at 24 you have spent a third of your life in jail and have a bleak future. Not quite sure why you find that funny - seems like a punishment to avoid.
If you are defending yourself and disarm someone, stabbing them once they are unarmed is just plain daft. And we are discussing karma here - why turn a good act, preventing harm, into a karmic catastrophe? Obviously, you don't have time to consider such things, but good training helps - police restraining people who they have disarmed don't need to stab them as they have rendered them incapable of continuing the attack. Now they have tasers, which have been a great help.
Of course, in an inter-gang situation, it also makes the likely retaliation more serious. Nowadays, guns are replacing knives for such retaliation.
Here's a bit of London context:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YH0LUt8R2k&feature=related
LOL, if you can't laugh at the world God help us