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The Second Noble Truth - Have I got the gist?
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 10"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 10"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CLuke%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CLuke%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso"><!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> Ok I’ve just read about the second noble truth in the book I’m reading and before moving on I just want to check with you that I’ve understood it properly as the book has been a bit confusing at times and I don’t want to be going all the way through the book to find out I’ve got it all wrong.
From what I understand it is about the arising of Dukkha (suffering) and that Dukkha is caused by Dukkha itself and not caused from outside. This also meaning that the way of cessation Dukkha can also be found within itself.
Thirst desire or greed (tanha) is a cause of suffering and continuity of being.
Although it is not the only cause but the principle one.
The book went on to talk about the four nutriments which I’m guessing are the conditions needed for existence and continuity of beings.
One of these four was "mental Volition" which is the will to live and become more and more.
So Volition, Karma and Thirst all denote to the same thing?
Karma should not be confused with moral justice such as someone being in control of what is right or wrong and what should have reward or punishment.
Karma is not the effects of an action or the result of action. It is the action.
The effects of an action can be to menifest in a life after death.
Death being where there isn’t both a physical and mental force or energy.
(While we are on the subject this is the first I’ve read into what Buddhists say about death so from what the book says I’m guessing our mind is reborn into another physical body? But because soul is not permanent and no two moments are the same we are born and die in every moment?)
I would be grateful if someone could just let me know if I have got the gist of what the chapter in the book I’m reading about the Second Noble Truth is trying to explain to me.
Thanks
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From what I understand it is about the arising of Dukkha (suffering) and that Dukkha is caused by Dukkha itself and not caused from outside. This also meaning that the way of cessation Dukkha can also be found within itself.
Thirst desire or greed (tanha) is a cause of suffering and continuity of being.
Although it is not the only cause but the principle one.
The book went on to talk about the four nutriments which I’m guessing are the conditions needed for existence and continuity of beings.
One of these four was "mental Volition" which is the will to live and become more and more.
So Volition, Karma and Thirst all denote to the same thing?
Karma should not be confused with moral justice such as someone being in control of what is right or wrong and what should have reward or punishment.
Karma is not the effects of an action or the result of action. It is the action.
The effects of an action can be to menifest in a life after death.
Death being where there isn’t both a physical and mental force or energy.
(While we are on the subject this is the first I’ve read into what Buddhists say about death so from what the book says I’m guessing our mind is reborn into another physical body? But because soul is not permanent and no two moments are the same we are born and die in every moment?)
I would be grateful if someone could just let me know if I have got the gist of what the chapter in the book I’m reading about the Second Noble Truth is trying to explain to me.
Thanks
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All suffering is caused by desire.
If you remove the desire, you remove the suffering.
The way to remove the desire is the Noble Eight Fold Path.
:cool:
we suffer because of our grasping and clinging. We cling to the "good things" that happen, because we want them to be a permanent fixture,
no deal.
Never can be.
That's dukkha.
So we also suffer because we grasp and cling to the desire to not have "bad stuff" go on, and we fervently want it to end, and never recur, or happen in the first place.
No deal.
Never can be.
That's dukkha.
And if we feel physical pain, we also have the emotional/mental pain or psychological anguish, the hatred or aversion to being in pain. So that's a dual suffering. Physical and psychological.
That's dukkha.
Dukkha is abiding in suffering, because we relate to circumstances and wish they were different, instead of relating to circumstances and accepting that this is the way they are, and they will inevitably pass.
mental volition is merely personal will. The decision to act upon a stimulus, based on our perception of it.
Volition is our desire to do something, based upon how we 'take it' in that moment.
Karma (or Kamma, in Pali) is a result based upon our intentional and deliberate action (be it mental, verbal or physical).
Karma is not judgemental or critical. it just 'is'.
If we practice diligently to follow the eightfold path and adhere to the 5 Precepts, karma will be positive. if we do something deliberately and wilfully against those teachings, then the kamma will not be so good.
Thirst is clinging, gasping and unskillful desire.
Before going on - what's the book, exactly.....?
Although it had lots of good reviews, I find it quite hard to understand at times... i'm not much of a reader and even with normal books I have to read a page a couple of times to actually "see" what it says if you understand i'm one of these people that can read pages and pages of a book and not know what I just read.
If you know of any books which may be a bit more of an easy read I would be happy to know of it.
Does this make sense?
If the cause of Dukka is attachment:
The cause of attachment is delusion.
If delusion is reduced then attachment is reduced.
If attachment is reduced then Dukka is reduced.
The causal mechanism that "drives" the above is interdependece/interconectivity.
?
namaste
Fede - I love the way you cut right to the chase. What's the *bottom* line here? No fooling around. This is the way it is.
If we look at the origin of suffering and trace it back, we find that it all originates from ignorance. Ignorance of the true, empty, nature of the world and ourselves. We have preconceived notions of how the world should be based on our ignorant understanding, so what happens is that when we receive input though our senses we filter those perceptions through our preconceived worldview.
Inevitably, how we perceive the world isn't how the world is in actuality, and the main difference is that we imagine phenomena to have inherent and permanent existence - a chair is a chair, a girl is a girl, a tree is a tree - so when these things change either unexpectedly or against our wishes, it creates a conflict between the real world and our subjective world. Rather than accept the change, go with the flow, we tend to cling to how we would like things to be, to the imaginary permanence. And that is the origin of suffering, wanting/desiring things to be as they are not.
I've mentioned it in several of my posts, Buddhism for Dummies. An excellent and broad introduction.
Have you checked THIS THREAD out, yet?
This is my understanding of what ven. Walpola Rahula is conveying regarding the Noble Truth of the Arising of Dukkha:
Dukkha arises from tanha (thirst) and this 'thirst' produces re-existence and re-becoming. This 'thirst', which includes desire, greed, and craving, manifests itself in various ways and gives rise to all forms of suffering and contunity of beings. But this 'thirst' should not be taken as the first cause, for there is no first cause possible; everything is relative and inter-dependent on the circle which is known as paticca-samuppada (dependent origination). So tanha (thirst) is not the first cause or the only cause of dukkha. But it is the most palpable and immediate cause. The term tanha (thirst) includes not only desire for, and attachment to, sense pleasure, wealth and power; but also desire for, and attachemnt to, ideas and ideals, views, opinions, theories, conceptions and beliefs. All the troubles and strifes in the world, from little personal quarrles in families to great wars between nations and countries, arise out of this selfish 'thirst' or tanha.
The Law of Kamma is the theory of cause and effect, of action and reaction; it is a natural law which has nothing to do with the idea of justice, reward and punishment. Kamma means only 'volitional action', not all action. Kamma never means its effects - that is known as the 'fruit' or result of kamma. Volition may relatively be good or bad, just as a desire may be good or bad. Good kamma produces good effects and bad kamma produces bad effects. The effects of volitional may continue to manifest themselves even in a life after death. If there is no Self, who gets the results of kamma? No one can answer this question better than the Buddha himself. When this question was raised by a bhikkhu, the Buddha said: "I have taught you, O bhikkhus, to see conditionality everywhere in all things".
Rebirth or re-existence does not require a permanent, unchanging entity or substance like a Self. In this life, every moment we are born, we decay and we die, but we continue without a permanent, unchanging substance like a Self. Similarly, those forces themselves can continue without a Self behind them after the non-functioning of the body. When this physical body is no more capable of functioning, the processes do not die with it, but continue to take some other shape or form, which we call another life. It is neither the same 'being' nor a different 'being' that is reborn. It is just the series that continues unbroken. From a Buddhist point of view, the question of life after death is not a great mystery, and a Buddhist is never worried about this problem. As long as there is this 'thirst' to be and become, the cycle of samsara goes on. It can only stop when this driving force, this 'thirst', is cut off through wisdom which sees Reality, the Truth, Nibbana.
I hope you find this summary useful. But don't take this to be a 'perfect' summary of what ven. Walpola Rahula is saying. In the final analysis, you must examine everything for yourself and see what makes sense to you.
Do continue to read the book to the end, more than once if you want to really get to grips with what the author is saying. This is an excellent book.
With kind regards.
I still can't quite get into that book. It IS quite hard and not one I would try for my first foray into Buddhism. I like a lot of what Lama Surya Das writes. I think he does an excellent job in explaining the Four Noble Truths and Noble eightfold Path in "Awakening The Buddha Within". However, I found the first book I ever read was by HH The Dalai Lama "How to Practise: Living a Meaningful Life" - I found it to be invaluable and still carry it and read it today (along with Awakening The Buddha Within")
Hope this helps.
In metta,
Raven
There is nothing wrong with reading slowly - it is a form of meditation.
And as Federica has pointed out, there are many books which will only confuse you at this early state.
If you want access to worth material in the Tibetan tradition please look here.
You will find free books which deal with the very issues you raise.
Life Isn't Just Suffering
As has been pointed out by Floating_Abu, not ALL Life is Suffering.
You will experience Suffering in Life, but this like everything else, is transitory and impermanent.
How keenly felt, intense and durable it is - is up to you.
Pain happens.
Suffering is optional.
Suffering is optional.
That spoke a thousand words to me..