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Heading East.
Hello everyone, I'm a British seventeen year-old who's discontented with Western culture. I'm in my last year of studies, which I'm finding very hard to complete due to other spiritual interests, and I'm greatly looking forward to my gap year. Now, I'd like to head East in my gap year and join a Buddhist monastery - I want to learn more about Buddhism and also experience working for the gain of a small community. I haven't done much research into it, however, because I'm not sure if I am "Buddhist" enough - I try to adhere to all the teachings and understand and agree with most of the symbolism, but I do not believe in some of the more abstract ideas, such as Karma. This is where I'm dubious about my success in the East.
I'm not looking to spend a few days there; I'd really like to immerse myself in the religion. I'm tempted to live the rest of my life there, because I believe the Buddhist message is right and I find it too hard to practise it where I am now, and as I mentioned I prefer the idea of working for a community and not for my individual gain to attain any kind of social "ambition".
What do you think of my situation? And is there any information you can give me on joining monasteries? Would I be accepted? Is there a certain branch of Buddhism I should be looking at? This may sound like a bit of an arbitrary idea. It isn't really, I just don't really understand any of the intricacies. I'm not looking for a brief insight, I'm really looking for a way to live the rest of my life.
Any comments and help will be appreciated.
I'm not looking to spend a few days there; I'd really like to immerse myself in the religion. I'm tempted to live the rest of my life there, because I believe the Buddhist message is right and I find it too hard to practise it where I am now, and as I mentioned I prefer the idea of working for a community and not for my individual gain to attain any kind of social "ambition".
What do you think of my situation? And is there any information you can give me on joining monasteries? Would I be accepted? Is there a certain branch of Buddhism I should be looking at? This may sound like a bit of an arbitrary idea. It isn't really, I just don't really understand any of the intricacies. I'm not looking for a brief insight, I'm really looking for a way to live the rest of my life.
Any comments and help will be appreciated.
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Comments
Although I can imagine a myriad of reasons, I'd like to hear your reasons why.
No offense, but because you have asked the bolded question, I don't think you're necessarily "ready" to just go live in a monastery. Not that one needs a certain "level of Buddhism" (at least I don't think so), but I think it's good to at least know what branch you're interested in.
I don't think one should just jump into some Tibetan monastery and then find out one is not into that school of Buddhism.
And, to be honest, there's a lot of romanticism with "going East" and whatnot, but culture shock is a reality. I've known people who travelled to Vietnam (not Buddhist related) and got so culture shocked that they lost 8 lbs from not eating or drinking anything (they thought everything was dirty), and then ironically they got sick from refusing to shower.
As for "helping the community" (which is in itself a laudable goal), there are social problems in the West that need just as much help as in the East. IMHO, one's own community should be helped before one tries to help others. What are you so disillusioned with in the West? Why can't you work to change that instead of fulfilling some Orientalist fantasy?
I left for similar reasons to what you have mentioned, I felt detahced from the western way of life and this feeling grew over a year or so. It got to the point where I would feel disgusted and angry at some people and at moments lose faith in the human race, this I can see now is not the correct way to think. However, I much prefer living in asia as I think there are more pros than cons here. Personally speaking they have life correct and you can see a clear difference from the people here to the UK. The general population in the UK seems to be so cold and sterile, everybody seems to have something jammed up their rear end all of the time. Anyway, get down to some research and then do a little more research, then even more research and finally visit your country of choice. All the best, tom
I would advise you to go - it will open your eyes as no Western Center could.
You could try Tushita at Dhamrsala where you can stay and get all the necessary information. Tushita is part of FPMT. Dharmsala is the residence of HHDL and there are any number of monasteries and teaching centers.
There is also Kopan in Kathmandu. I have not been there but you will get the full monty at either place if you are interested in Tibetan Buddhism.
Regardless whether you love it or loath it the experience will be invaluable.
But a word of caution. Please do not go as a flashy Westerner. Learn to treat the locals with respect - you will be repaid in the end.
Oh, another thing - learn how to handle beggars. For what it is worth my strategy was that I gave to one particular beggar, generous by Indian standards, and I was never troubled expect by blow in beggars. It is also a good opportunity to practice giving.
Travel well my friend.
It depends where you go. There is obviously that clear north south divide where the further north you go, the poorer people are and more 'traditional'. A lot of the south and the islands are heavily westernized and I personally do not like them.
But my point is, often thais see western people as a way to make money so treat them well. Also, as their culture is changing and they become more influenced by the west, money and status here is becoming just as it is in any city back in the west. Especially the younger generations. 'Image' is becoming a big thing here in Thailand but this obviously does not apply to the entire country/people.
If you walk up to a monestry in thailand as a 'flashy westerner', I am sure most buddhist monks would not judge/treat anybody by how they dress, some probably will but they are buddhist monks after all.....
In Thailand I have met so many westerners who left europe or the states or where ever because they hated it and every time I saw them(and wasn't quick enough to hide)they complained about Thailand.
Forget who said this<"If you put something bad smelling in your pocket,where ever you go it will smell.Don't blame the place">
I believe it was Ajahn Chah.
An Alcoholics Anonymous saying is that no matter where you go, you always take your head with you.
The Roman philosopher Senneca said that you can move a bed ridden sick man to a room covered in gold, and he'll still remain sick.
However, being 17 years old, a gap year, and a wish to find out more about Buddhism; wow; I wish I had that opportunity now. Good luck, and if you do go, please post your experience of it, I'd love to hear how you get on.
Certainly, this is wise advice and one that I am in no way going to dismiss. There isn't much I can say other than I would be perfectly willing to go to a more local monastery, at least to start, so long as it was in the countryside and far removed from materialism and commercialism. Both of your suggestions are very reasonable, especially as I can speak French. The language barrier would certainly be a issue in the beginning in the East. I need to look more into local monasteries.
In response to the first paragraph, it's partly the lack of appreciation of nature. It's also the reliance on materialism; I believe I community should be upheld by love and not money or individual desires. I said I was having troubles with my studies as I attend a somewhat prestigious private school where it is drilled into our skulls that "ambition" is the most important thing for us right now: I fervently disagree with this, and it is causing me a great many troubles. Only my parents support me where my school does not. The school is not aware of my views yet, but maybe things will change when they find out in the near future. Regardless, that is the short-term: I'm thinking about the long term. There are so many careers I won't consider following because I just don't agree with them morally; it may sound silly, but it's true. I won't give a list, but feel free to ask and I'll tell you why. The only career I'd consider is an author or poet, but I don't know if I'm strong enough at writing to make a career out of it. Even then, I still think I'd feel disillusioned by my surroundings and would want to get away from money. And it's pretty hard to live here if you hate money.
As for your second point, I can see where you're coming from. Buddhism just seems so flexible that I don't know where I fit into it. I would be willing to give up all my worldly possessions and adhere to the rules (and I understand that these rules change with different "branches"). It's complicated. I would call myself a Buddhist from what I know, but I don't take some of the concepts literally - I just agree with the symbolism behind them.
And your final point has a simple answer: I can't work to change my own community because I need income. Working in a culture that I feel is so misguided has thrown me into depression more times than I care to imagine. I want to remove myself from it. The only way I have been able to keep myself happy here seems to be through social interaction and escapism via various substances - it is only recently that I have drifted towards Buddhism, however, and I understand that I cannot live my life by these things. The short of it is that I cannot be happy here because there are too many requirements I have to fulfill with which I just don't agree.
And thank you especially for your story ThailandTom. I can relate to everything you say.
The one thing I know is that I need to do more research. This is basically my issue at the moment: I'm at what will most likely be the most academically taxing part of my life, so my school says anyway, but there is a big conflict between this and my "spiritual study". I know which is taking priority in my mind, but it's coming at a detriment to my school career. That is a career which just doesn't feel right to me anymore.
Any more help will be greatly appreciated too. None of your words have gone unheeded. You have all helped me a great deal.
I'm certain you appreciate the fact that when applying yourself to Buddhism, some factors which might make you uncomfortable and resistant, are actually pertinent and deep points of teaching, so "picking and choosing" isn't an ideal approach.
I emphasise - I'm not accusing you of doing this - but a retreat for a while, may be a a better indicator for you or which way to go, rather than joining a Monastery outright. I believev your appreciation and understanding of Buddhism would benefirt from such intoerductory and preliminary discipline.
Besides which, I am certain you will find there are certain criteria to be fulfilled, before a Monastery is willing to accept a new member or intern, as a novice.
Indubitably, you are an intelligent, coherent and articulate young man.
But if you do not enter into a Monastic life, you will need an income.
we all work, at various jobs, and all know what it is to need to put food on the table and keep a roof over our heads. some jobs are a pleasure, some are a trial and really hard work - in more ways than one.
The trick is to apply yourself to what you do, as Mindfully and Skilfully as you can.
There is as much credit and worth in being a road sweep, as there is in being a Corporate Director.
We all have things that must be achieved, and we all have to find ways of achieving them by making what we do, worthy.
It's not always the profession that is awry. Sometimes, the profession is a good one, but the worker is lacking in the necessary application.
All things are impermanent, and if we simply do the very best we can, with what we have, to be the best we can be, then Life moves on , and we flow with it.
Just a bit more input....
All of the Buddhist ideals I read I agree with. Buddhist philosophies, moral codes and how to better ourselves resound with me. The only aspects in which I myself do not "believe" are the ones that I construe as "supernatural". Most notably is Karma: I personally do not believe that our actions in this life will affect us in a future life. I actually do not believe in a future life, much as I would like to. Despite this, I still take from the Buddha's teachings on it what I can. I try to do well by other people and by nature in everything I do, but out of respect and appreciation, not for fear of the ramifications if I do not (I don't mean to portray "fundamental" Buddhists - forgive my terminology if it's wrong - as living in fear, I don't feel this way at all, please excuse my questionable diction). Really, I think it's just the idea of a future life that doesn't compute with me. Regardless, I still choose to believe in Enlightenment: I feel that through following the Buddha's teachings, we can reach a state of profound spiritual joy, without negative emotions and fears. Does this mean I don't qualify as a true "Buddhist"? It is my main fear at the moment: whether or not my differing views on the matter what prohibit me from leading a Monastic life.
Now for your point regarding jobs; a point which has troubled me ever since I entered adolescence. I entirely agree with your comments - a road sweeper is equally important as a corporate director - the only problem is, I would not be happy in either career as I would not like to think that I am perpetuating this culture. A road sweeper is maintaining roads, roads that have been built in destruction of nature; a corporate director is maintaining a corporation, and I'd only be echoing a, by some, clichéd view if I explained why I wasn't comfortable with that. I've given it much thought, and I can seem to find fault in almost all the jobs that I'd be happy doing, you see. As I grew older, I began to seek humbler careers, but I always found fault in them eventually: I wanted to be involved in a pet-shop or zoo, but I didn't like the thought of unnaturally enclosing animals like that; I wanted to be a gardener, but I didn't like the thought of tampering with nature purely for aesthetics. "Natural nature" is as beautiful as it can get to me. As I mentioned, a career in writing is all that appeals to me.
To be honest, I think I'm in desperate need of guidance here. Both for my future, whether it be financial or Monastic, and my loose stance as a Buddhist.
Thank you greatly for your reply though, federica. You are truly wise. You all are.
Well, one principle found within Buddhism is renunciation. The thing is, it doesn't take much to renounce what we don't have. A person with no money can't really renounce wealth.
So, as long as you remain uncertain of what you want to do in this life, plot a path that while not perfect will allow you to earn an honest living and at least meet your basic needs for clothing, food and shelter.
If at some point you become certain that you wish to renounce the life of a householder and become a monastic at least you will have attained something you can renounce
I was wondering if anybody could answer the main question on my mind: would a monastery, of any subset of Buddhism, welcome me if I don't fully accept the concepts of reincarnation and rebirth? I know I should know what branch of Buddhism I fit into before I join one, but it seems like such a flexible philosophy that I don't feel the need to find out yet. Do subsets of Buddhism even exist which don't "require" I believe in it? I have been looking through the different branches, but there are so many it's hard to find a specific one.
No.
That's almost like asking "Can I become a Catholic priest if I don't believe in transubstantiation and the Immaculate Conception?"
Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I find it quite irritating when people treat religions (esp Buddhism for some reason) as buffets - they just pick and choose what they like. While Buddhism does not have a rigid set of "Thou shalts" and "Thou shalt nots," taking certain parts without the context of the whole is not really experiencing Buddhism (or any other religion), IMHO. To be a religious practitioner, one has to take all aspects and reconcile it with the modern age and one's own convictions.
For example, if you make a cake and the recipe calls for butter, but you don't like butter, you don't just make it without any fat. You try and work it out and find a way to make it the same, but in a way that sits well with you. So you don't believe in literal rebirth... there are schools that say it's all metaphorical... but they don't reject it outright. But you'd be hard pressed to find them in the East, I'm pretty sure.
If you take a prescriptivist view towards religion, then that's fine. But I still call myself a follower of Buddhism because it's the philosophy by which I live my life. The impression I get is that the Buddha said to not take a prescriptivist approach to his teachings. I know Christians who believe in God and Jesus, but they take the rest of the Bible solely as a guide, full of symbolism. They're still Christians in my eyes. I would be interested to hear your interpretation of the difference between "taking certain parts out of context" and "reconciliation with the modern age and one's own convictions". I think you may find they are actually rather similar. The way I see it, you can either take a fundamentalist, prescriptivist view, or give people leeway in what they choose to believe but still give them the sanctity of a label and purpose in life. I choose to go in the latter direction.
I didn't know enough about monasteries. In hindsight, my most recent question was uninformed and a bit silly, but SherabDorje gave me a blunt but appreciated answer. It is disheartening, but at least I am now not deluded and can begin to think of a different way to approach my situation.
I don't see how I don't follow Buddhism just because I don't comprehend one facet of many in its entirety - I still choose to live my life by Buddhist rule. Is it just me who's got the wrong end of the stick here? Does this really mean I am not a Buddhist, even when I choose to act by the Buddha's word?
It would also be appreciated if someone could give me a name of a "school that says it's all [the concept of rebirth] metaphorical" so I can research it. Thank you.
I never made any mention of taking the Suttas literally or anything literally. What I am saying is that beliefs do not exist independently in a vacuum. They all exist within a set we call "religion" for a reason, as they develop with each other. So to take karma and say "oh yeah I believe in karma" but then say "Rebirth doesn't happen" even on a metaphorical level is a bit odd (not saying you're doing this, but it is very common), as the concept of karma is tied to the concept of rebirth.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
It's like if someone believed in heaven because they wanted to go there, but didn't want to have anything to do with the practices/beliefs it takes to get there. They are connected.
What I mean by reconciling with the modern age/one's own convictions is this: some dogmatic Buddhists may say that someone who has a bad lot in life is the result of their bad karma. Most people would find this to be controversial, as it sort of blames them for their situation. So it is up to Buddhists of the modern age to take the concept of karma and rebirth and see if it can be reconciled with more modern, humanistic approaches to things, but not necessarily removing them from their element. This is generally known as "Buddhist modernism," "humanistic Buddhism," "Engaged Buddhism," etc. How can we take the dharma as a whole and apply it to what is plaguing the world (social injustice, etc)?
I think such "review" of the dharma may be seen as heresy but I think it is necessary to avoid the dogmatism that you (rightfully) are wary about.
Well the basics are the 4NT and 8FP, and I think generally most people would say you're okay with those. I would too. Again, the point I was trying to make is not that you must follow and wholeheartedly believe every single aspect of Buddhism to call yourself a Buddhist. In fact, there are some aspects that we are not supposed to be able to understand.
Rather, it is that I personally think a religious practitioner must accept (not wholeheartedly believe) the realities and history of their belief system, as opposed to willfully ignoring certain aspects of it.
In my experience of researching temples and whatnot, it seems that it's generally the vast sect of Mahayana that contains schools that follow this view, although it varies from sangha to sangha. A more Western-influenced centre/temple may take such an approach, whereas one with predominantly Asian members may not although obviously there are exceptions.
I think Dharma Drum Mountain is a fairly humanistic Pure Land/Ch'an community, not sure if they have any centres in your area though.
Ah, I had just typed out a whole lengthy response and accidentally hit Ctrl+W instead of shift+W near the end! Guess I better get retyping whilst it's fresh in my mind, although it'll have to be less detailed than before as it's late.
I apologise for stating beforehand that I did not "fully accept these concepts of Buddhism". This was a mistake purely down to poor diction. If "accepting" entails never labelling it as impossible and also acknowledging and understanding its relevance as a concept, then I accept every facet of Buddhism. Certain facets, such as the 8FP and 4NT (assuming these are handy acronyms for the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path) I actively believe in and follow. To give an example of what I mean by acceptance, I accept Karma because I understand its importance as a concept, and live my life as if it were true - I act lovingly in the hopes that I shall prosper from it during my lifetime, although that's not to say that I act altruistically out of egocentricity, merely hoping I will gain from it in the end. The idea of egocentric altruism is a paradox in itself anyway, but that's neither here nor there.
As for your statement regarding Heaven, I'm not saying you directed it at me, but I reckon either way that it's transposed in my case. To continue the analogy, I'm not so sure that Heaven exists - but I'll surely conduct myself as if it did. It's almost as if I think like there is Karma, but don't think that there is Karma. How do you feel about that?
I did actually stumble across Humanistic/Modernist/Engaged Buddhism in my research, and whilst I found it very interesting, it seemed more like an extension of Mahayana Buddhism than a school in itself, not that you are saying it is one. But this is why I haven't paid it the heed it probably deserves. I remember I read one of the Wikipedia articles on it, and it stated that "Buddha has entered Nirvana", and this is what threw me. As far as I'm concerned, Buddha had entered Nirvana: he existed then, his influence exists now, but he doesn't exist now. My only contact with him is through the way he has spiritually influenced me, but that shall end when I die.
I think there was more, but sadly I've forgotten it. I think I've got my key points down, although feel free to ask if anything doesn't add up.
Thank you for the recommendation regarding Dharma Drum Mountain, I'll be sure to look into it, but above all thank you ever so much for taking the time and effort to talk to me. You seem to really have committed yourself to your answer and it's an honour discussing it with you.
You have all helped me more than a hundred hours of research. You are great people.