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Competitive Sports

edited October 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Could somebody give me a Buddhist take competitive sports? It's an area of work I'd like to go into but I'm not sure the culture of competitive sports is one that fits with Buddhism.

Comments

  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    edited October 2010
    I once heard a Buddhist say that when you want to beat people in competition it brings bad karma. But why would it bring bad karma if both want to beat each other? It is no fun when you have an opponent who does not take it seriously. It is more fun when you win over someone who was also trying to win. When you lose, that is also how you learn.

    And in that respect I don't see anything wrong with it when both competitors want the same thing. I did competitive Kendo for a few years. The goal of a match is to kill your opponent in one spirited strike, yet there is a lot of Buddhist and zen tones to it. So it has a lot of interesting philosophy, but it's a great sport/martial art.
  • pineblossompineblossom Veteran
    edited October 2010
    malachite wrote: »
    Could somebody give me a Buddhist take competitive sports? It's an area of work I'd like to go into but I'm not sure the culture of competitive sports is one that fits with Buddhism.

    Interesting that you raise this topic at this time - the Commonwealth Games are on in Delhi.

    I watching the news of the games on TV news last night and the empty seats were cause for much comment.

    Indians are not into competition as we are in the West. And while they show some enthusiasm for cricket I suspect such interest is located more in giving the colonialist overlords a lesson or two - Australia just lost a test match much to the joy of India.

    Indians are not into warming seats watching others - they are more involved as a community. The great Hindu holidays and religious festivals are the cause of mass migration - millions - and the having of much fun. So I don't see an overt interest in individual competition anywhere near the same level of interest as the West devotes to sports.

    Competition, of course, has a lot to do with the ego. It is also interesting in the 'sport' of Tibetan debates. Very vocal - lots of enthusiastic energy - but all ends in good natured banter and laughter despite who may have won.
  • edited October 2010
    malachite wrote: »
    Could somebody give me a Buddhist take competitive sports? It's an area of work I'd like to go into but I'm not sure the culture of competitive sports is one that fits with Buddhism.

    There is nothing wrong with sports and competition.
    It can actually be conducive to practice.
    When you compete, what is your mind like when you win?
    How about when you lose?
    I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I consider it an important part of my daily dharma practice.
  • edited October 2010
    Yeah, I don't see a problem with competitive sports. Where I see a problem is an attachment to the outcome. If winning results in a mood elevation and losing results in a depression in the mood or if one becomes angry with a player who isn't performing to expectations then there is unhealthy attachment at work.

    So, it is just another opportunity to practice mindfulness and letting go ;)
  • edited October 2010
    Thank you for your responses.

    I do experience mood elevation in winning and mood depression in losing but I remain gracious and respectful. This rather brings me round to the element of desire I find most difficult to let go of, or even appreciate that I should. I expect this is partly because I don't understand properly why one should not be attached to non-material things, so long as the attachment is recognised as such -it does not seem healthy or realistic to expect not to feel disappointment at not succeeding at something one has practiced hard for.

    That said, I'm more concerned at having done my best (put in a good individual performance; I play a team sport) and kept a cool head. I don't like the word and struggle with the concept of pride but if I did pride myself on anything it would be my relative calmness during playing my favourite sport.
  • edited October 2010
    monks-play-table-tennis-outside.jpg
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    edited October 2010
    I play to have fun. Win or lose I alway learn something new about myself or others, and generally have a smile on my face.
  • edited October 2010
    malachite wrote: »
    I do experience mood elevation in winning and mood depression in losing but I remain gracious and respectful. This rather brings me round to the element of desire I find most difficult to let go of, or even appreciate that I should. I expect this is partly because I don't understand properly why one should not be attached to non-material things, so long as the attachment is recognised as such -it does not seem healthy or realistic to expect not to feel disappointment at not succeeding at something one has practiced hard for.

    What you have written above is very honest. It reflects the way you perceive things right now. Cool.

    Now practice the dharma and retain this outlook...for as long as you can :D

    What I am getting at is that it is pointless for anyone to tell you to stop experiencing a mood elevation upon winning and a mood depression upon losing. This is something that will happen all by itself over time as a result of your practice. Not only will you not mind it happening once it does, you will get more enjoyment from the overall experience than you do today.
  • edited October 2010
    malachite wrote: »
    Thank you for your responses.

    I do experience mood elevation in winning and mood depression in losing but I remain gracious and respectful. This rather brings me round to the element of desire I find most difficult to let go of, or even appreciate that I should. I expect this is partly because I don't understand properly why one should not be attached to non-material things, so long as the attachment is recognised as such -it does not seem healthy or realistic to expect not to feel disappointment at not succeeding at something one has practiced hard for.

    Your post stayed with me all day. I am glad it did as it allowed things to crystalize in my own mind. What you are describing is the same as an alcoholic. I am not trying to be offensive, I am being very serious. Bear with me please.

    You play a sport and you win and you experience a mood elevation. You experience this as a pleasant state and can't see why there would be anything at all wrong with it. The reason you see nothing wrong with it is that you do not yet see the dukkha (suffering|dissatisfactoriness) of it.

    In the same way the alcoholic genuinely experiences pleasure from consuming alcohol and sees nothing wrong with this pleasure. Others see the alcoholic as living a life that is a train wreck, but the alcoholic doesn't see the problem. The alcoholic has not yet made the connection between the pattern of drinking and the profound dukkha he is experiencing. He knows dukkha quite well, but the alcoholic genuinely does not see how the drinking is a cause of the dukkha.

    In the same way you do not yet see the dukkha that is winning or the dukkha that is losing. Well, you likely see the dukkha that is losing to some extent, but not the dukkha of winning. You haven't made the connection that you can't have the pleasant experience you feel as a reaction to winning without tolerating the dukkha from losing. Or perhaps you have, but you just don't see it as any big deal yet.

    If you maintain a mindfulness practice then in time you will come to see for yourself that both winning and losing are dukkha, they are delusions. You do not have to take my word for it nor should you. If you stick with a practice that cultivates mindfulness you will see it for yourself in time. I rather suspect you will see it in a very short period of time. I rather suspect that without realizing it you made the post you did because your mindfulness is already starting to show it to you and you are experiencing the discomfort stage.
  • LostieLostie Veteran
    edited October 2010
    shaolin4.jpg

    monks-play-table-tennis-outside.jpg
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Is that the Tibetan national ping-pong team in action?
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited October 2010
    You know, I used to be very attached to grades in high school. I then began meditating and laissez faire practice of the 8-fold path - meaning that I still do unskillful things.
    I quickly experienced my attachment go away by itself. In fact I had more energy left to actually do the studying. My grades in my strong fields stayed the same - but I got better grades in my weaker subjects. It's actually quite logical when you think about it.
    No worries, no stress - all fun and energy :)
    Not being attached is not like you loose the ability to recognize good and bad performances and forget how to improve - you're just not bombed out if a competition turns out bad :)

    So I say you just go out there and practice both the Way and the sport.
  • edited October 2010
    sports are pretty fun
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