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SOoooooooo excited!!!

est4elvisest4elvis
edited October 2010 in Buddhism Basics
I am literally jumping out of my seat! I found a class near me, I have emailed the guy + he said just turn up, its free! I dont even care if I have to go alone I am so excited (which is totally unlike me!) + I know this post isn't even interesting, but i had to tell someone who understood! I so didn't think I would find a class that was near me + free. My friend said she wants to come too but I dont care if she doesn't, Im just happy I have found a class! I have been reading but it's not the same is it? Giddy, giddy, giddy!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Comments

  • ShiftPlusOneShiftPlusOne Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Haha, nice. I'll start going to classes as well soon.
  • ThaoThao Veteran
    edited October 2010
    That is great! I hope you both enjoy the classes. What traditions are they?
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    http://www.dwbuk.org/centres/manchester/ thats the link, not sure what tradition should i know?
  • ThaoThao Veteran
    edited October 2010
    est4elvis wrote: »
    http://www.dwbuk.org/centres/manchester/ thats the link, not sure what tradition should i know?

    Tibetan. Looks like a good group. I hope you enjoy!!! I know what you mean by the excitement.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited October 2010
    That group is nominally Karma Kagyu Vajrayana. This is only an opinion/observation, but most Diamond Way Karma Kagyu groups were started by a guy named Ole Nydahl, who is a somewhat controversial figure. Some say that he is not a real lama and not qualified to be teaching, and many believe that the Karmapa they accept is not the actual one. Just as a point of information, HHDL accepted a different Karmapa.

    On that web page, Ole Nydahl is the poster on the wall on the far right.

    But, as HH Jesus of Nazareth said, "by their fruits ye shall know them", so I hope it goes well for you.

    Just information. I have no opinion really, except that I personally tend to be conservative, and in my old age, I tend to just accept what HHDL says. I know. That's un-Buddhist, but I plead old age/craziness.
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    edited October 2010
    SherabDorje wrote: »
    That group is nominally Karma Kagyu Vajrayana. This is only an opinion/observation, but most Diamond Way Karma Kagyu groups were started by a guy named Ole Nydahl, who is a somewhat controversial figure. Some say that he is not a real lama and not qualified to be teaching, and many believe that the Karmapa they accept is not the actual one. Just as a point of information, HHDL accepted a different Karmapa.

    On that web page, Ole Nydahl is the poster on the wall on the far right.

    But, as HH Jesus of Nazareth said, "by their fruits ye shall know them", so I hope it goes well for you.

    Just information. I have no opinion really, except that I personally tend to be conservative, and in my old age, I tend to just accept what HHDL says. I know. That's un-Buddhist, but I plead old age/craziness.

    Maybe experience and wisdom too :)
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Count yourself lucky to have a Buddhist community big enough to support that type of group. Sometimes I feel like a lone wolf, far out in the woods...
  • ReallyReally
    edited October 2010
    That great est4elvis. I'm happy for you. Lots of people here would understand your excitement. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Treasure your excitement, est4elvis, this is a moment of grace. Mark it with a white stone (as the Ancient Greeks would have said) Put it in a place in your memory where you can find it again, to bring out when, years down the line perhaps, your practice has become stale and you experience boredom and discouragement. There it will be, a nugget of encouragement.

    May all that is good come to you from your meeting with this group.
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    SherabDorje wrote: »
    That group is nominally Karma Kagyu Vajrayana. This is only an opinion/observation, but most Diamond Way Karma Kagyu groups were started by a guy named Ole Nydahl, who is a somewhat controversial figure. Some say that he is not a real lama and not qualified to be teaching, and many believe that the Karmapa they accept is not the actual one. Just as a point of information, HHDL accepted a different Karmapa.

    On that web page, Ole Nydahl is the poster on the wall on the far right.

    But, as HH Jesus of Nazareth said, "by their fruits ye shall know them", so I hope it goes well for you.

    Just information. I have no opinion really, except that I personally tend to be conservative, and in my old age, I tend to just accept what HHDL says. I know. That's un-Buddhist, but I plead old age/craziness.

    hmm maybe i should find a different class then. tho i have no idea what i would be looking for. i will have a look over what i found. what am i looking for, HHDL?
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    http://www.umsu.manchester.ac.uk/mubs/manchester.html

    thats the link to all the groups around manchester, which one would be best to go to?
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited October 2010
    I think the "easiest" one to go to would be the Fo Guang Shan because (opinion) you would get a bit of a taste of Chinese Zen and Mahayana. But ultimately there is no comparison as it's an apples-and-oranges situation and you would need to see for yourself and choose. At Fo Guang Shan you would no doubt get basic meditation instruction in a friendly and relaxed environment, but that's not to say that you wouldn't get the same at another place. It's impossible to say which would be "best". If it were me, I'd go to the Fo Guang Shan, but that has to do with my personality and needs and yours may be very different.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2010
    The two karmapa situation is a political thing. I believe my teacher follows the 'wrong' karmapa (from HHDL). I could be wrong.

    However I can think of a couple of reasons to not be too worried about that. One it is quite possible that both Karmapas are wise and wonderful teachers. But unfortunately the former Karmapa simply named 2 successors.

    That is specifically to refute the idea that there is a 'good' karmapa and an 'evil' one. This is not snow white and the 7 dwarfs! They are both long studied lamas.

    Second why would you take the leader of the Gelugpas advice on who should be Karmapa. That would be like taking a Zen Masters advice on the matter. Or indeed a further extreme suppose Pope Ratcliff (or whatever) spoke on who he thought the true Karmapa was. What about Dr. Phil's opinion on the matter?

    Basicly if you are taking HHDLs opinion so seriously I think you should find a Gelugpa teacher.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2010
    If it were me I would be attracted to Rigpa because I enjoyed Sogyal Rinpoches book. And thats already because I am comfortable with Tibetan Buddhism in part.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited October 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    Basicly if you are taking HHDLs opinion so seriously I think you should find a Gelugpa teacher.

    I clearly stated that my acceptance of HHDL's endorsement of the Karmapa that he recognizes is based on old age and insanity. I'm just too old and crazy to argue about it. Besides, I have a Gelugpa teacher- HHDL. I didn't say it was a rational thing or anything anyone else should believe. I just said it works for me because HHDL says so. And yes, taking something like that on "faith" is "un-Buddhist" and I already admitted that.

    It has been said that there might be two Karmapas this time as well. It's all very confusing.

    I didn't say it was rational or right. I just said that based on my age and emotional state I accept what HHDL says because he's most often been right before. It has more to do with me than the issue. These Diamond Way places could be pretty good places to go to- I have no knowledge either way.
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    this is all very confusing!! i guess i need to read more...
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Don't worry. Just go along and see how you get on. Nobody is going to attach electrodes to you or offer you Kool Aid (at least not at first LOL). Use you antennae: is this helping me to a more peaceful mind? Is the teaching compassionate and liberating or discriminatory and dependency-creating? Check reality regularly and you'll be OK

    You don't have to buy at the first shop you enter.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited October 2010
    I can't speak to this tradition, but can speak to the Sangha experience in general. There is usually a honeymoon period where the feeling of "really doing it" is strong, but once being an "official" practicing Buddhist becomes normal, and the garden variety pathologies of both you and other sangha members become obvious, you can easily become disillusioned. Given that the Sangha is legit, it is worth pushing through this. At some point it is just you on the cushion, feeling like it's the last thing you want to do, and the last place you want to be. That is when Sangha is IMO so supportive, because in group practice you keep going. That is when things can open up.


    .........One more thing, teachers are human, and it is common to project all kinds wonderful things onto them. He/She may look at you, and while you see him transmitting specialness, he's just thinking of lunch.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited October 2010
    est4elvis wrote: »
    this is all very confusing!! i guess i need to read more...

    No est4elvis ... go to the first group. Go for some months. Go only because it WAS the first group you found out about. Go and just listen and learn and do the practice at home as you are learning. Unless of course there is something there that you are appalled at. If you are still feeling uncertain after half a year months, then go to the other group. You are confused because you are trying to answer a question that can only be answered by experiencing it. Good luck.

    I would like to add this: Besides going to my own center, I listen to tapes by a Western nun called Pema Chodron. Now, her teacher behaved abominably (in MY eyes) and I couldn't ever see myself following this man. But the teachings of Pema Chodron have changed my life more than any other source of Buddhist teachings. So you can't necessarily go by the teacher's teacher.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited October 2010
    It's also a good idea to keep in mind that every Sangha will have things about it that irk you, the people, the culture, some attitudes. There is such a thing as a good fit, but no fit is perfect, and even if it feels like a perfect fit, you can be alternately inspired and turned-off. New people can have an idealized image of teachers and Sangha. This always leads to disappointment at some point, and it is a reminder that ultimately you are responsible for your own mind and practice.
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Richard H wrote: »
    It's also a good idea to keep in mind that every Sangha will have things about it that irk you, the people, the culture, some attitudes. There is such a thing as a good fit, but no fit is perfect, and even if it feels like a perfect fit, you can be alternately inspired and turned-off. New people can have an idealized image of teachers and Sangha. This always leads to disappointment at some point, and it is a reminder that ultimately you are responsible for your own mind and practice.

    In my experience moving forward has meant leaving a teacher and Sangha at one time, and at another ceasing a practice which had been important to me - one big conundrum to me is that unless we fully commit to an approach and follow the instruction and practice rather than only what we " see " as being important, what we like, agree with and are attracted to we can not see if the approach is a good fit and suitable for our capacities and strengths over time. Having a teacher to be accountable to has been a similar commitment to a commitment to marriage for me - where the things which are most difficult are usually the most important to communicate about.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited October 2010
    The Diamond Way group might be just fine. You won't know till you go, just like the rest of us.
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    thanks for all your replies everyone. I think at the moment i am so overwhelmed with all there is to take in + understand that even if it isn't the best class in the world, I am still going in the right direction. It will at least help me to learn a little bit more + like you say if I decide to change later, then i can do.

    the only problem is, when the guy emailed me back he said if the door is closed ring this number + I thought well if you have a full class then why would I need to ring a number? But I will go + see so watch this space :) hugs + stuff
  • ThaoThao Veteran
    edited October 2010
    I wouldn't worry about the ring this number. Even Deer Park has a gate that you have to open by using numbers, but on Sundays it was always open.

    I would like to add this: Besides going to my own center, I listen to tapes by a Western nun called Pema Chodron. Now, her teacher behaved abominably (in MY eyes) and I couldn't ever see myself following this man. But the teachings of Pema Chodron have changed my life more than any other source of Buddhist teachings. So you can't necessarily go by the teacher's teacher.

    Good for you. You got past it, while I just couldn't read her books because of it. I thought maybe she would be the same.

    I think it is hard for newcomers to begin hearing the strife that goes on between the groups.

    I have a hard time accepting what HHDL has to say about certain groups, but this isn't the place to talk about it as it can cause big problems, and I think he has a lot of good in him in the way of his teachings. I say go and listen Elvis and see what you think, but also try out other groups. <!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->
  • Rob3rtRob3rt
    edited October 2010
    To the OP, this may be of interest to you. http://www.umsu.manchester.ac.uk/mubs/meditation.html It is of course not a replacement for a good teacher, but it might allow you to talk to other people from the area and discuss how they find certain centre's and teachers.

    I may attend if I have the time to travel there.
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited October 2010
    Hi est4elvis,


    I strongly recommend you investigate this group in Manchester. As well as being taught to how to meditate you will also get instruction about core Buddhist teachings.


    http://www.samatha.org/manchester


    With kind wishes,

    Dazzle


    .
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited October 2010
    andyrobyn wrote: »
    one big conundrum to me is that unless we fully commit to an approach and follow the instruction and practice rather than only what we " see " as being important, what we like, agree with and are attracted to we can not see if the approach is a good fit and suitable for our capacities and strengths over time. Having a teacher to be accountable to has been a similar commitment to a commitment to marriage for me - where the things which are most difficult are usually the most important to communicate about.
    That's a good point. I often wonder whether everybody feels like a bad student at some point, because although we must listen and follow intructions, we also have to "own" the Dharma before we can open up. In the Theravada we are taught a menu, basically, of skillful means to work with, so different people develop different practices depending on their effectiveness. One is essentially Shikantaza "just sitting". where the discipline is in the holding the form while the "object" is the totality of bodymind.. This became the core approach for me and it was in synch with the Zen form which meant it was portable. Eventually practice truly became non-practice, or the practice of being awake, where techniques fall away. Sitting is sitting without confusion. Once the technique carries you to non-suffering, You become the source of techique, as the practice goes from opening to clarifying.

    ....also at certain point the role of the teacher changes, as you and they become equals, not that you presume to teach, but they have pointed and you have seen and tasted for yourself.
    For me Sangha is about continued support and sharing in discipline, because once you have seen your "True nature" and are no longer confused, you still have the long haul of "turning the tanker" of greed, hatred, and delusion.
  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    edited October 2010
    it's the last thing you want to do, and the last place you want to be

    When you think about this in a way other than what it means in the parlance of our times (that is - meaning aversion) this is a beautiful intention......
  • ThaoThao Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    Hi est4elvis,


    I strongly recommend you investigate this group in Manchester. As well as being taught to how to meditate you will also get instruction about core Buddhist teachings.


    http://www.samatha.org/manchester


    With kind wishes,

    Dazzle


    .


    Now that is a very good idea Dazzle.
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    Hi est4elvis,


    I strongly recommend you investigate this group in Manchester. As well as being taught to how to meditate you will also get instruction about core Buddhist teachings.


    http://www.samatha.org/manchester


    With kind wishes,

    Dazzle

    thank you soooooooo much for this. I know you must have looked for me + I really appreciate that :D Definitely going to go here I think :D Thank you

    .
  • est4elvisest4elvis
    edited October 2010
    + thank you sooo much to everyone else for your help + replies. you are all lovely xxxxxx
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