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Beggars
ShiftPlusOne
Veteran
Hey, if you walk down the street and are approached by a homeless individual asking for change. What do you do? I am always conflicted. Sometimes you can see track marks all over the arm. Sometimes it is obvious they're on something or are just shaking a lot. Sometimes, they seem genuine. Sometimes you can walk down Swanston St (in Melbourne) and be asked at every intersection. Sometimes they are violent and vulgar.
I feel like giving money would support bad habits. Also, I don't want to support begging as a viable means of income for homeless people. I can't afford to spare a a couple of dollars 10 times in a row either. To be honest, I can't think of any excuse to be homeless in a city like Melbourne. I guess I just don't know how they end up where they are. On the other hand, what if the person is really hungry and they would spend the money on food? There's a hare krishna place nearby where you can fill yourself up for a couple of dollars, so it's quite possible that they'd go there.
As it is now, I give change when I have it... I don't give change when I don't. I also like hearing a bit of music on the streets, so I give change to buskers.
So... what's your policy when it comes to beggars?
I feel like giving money would support bad habits. Also, I don't want to support begging as a viable means of income for homeless people. I can't afford to spare a a couple of dollars 10 times in a row either. To be honest, I can't think of any excuse to be homeless in a city like Melbourne. I guess I just don't know how they end up where they are. On the other hand, what if the person is really hungry and they would spend the money on food? There's a hare krishna place nearby where you can fill yourself up for a couple of dollars, so it's quite possible that they'd go there.
As it is now, I give change when I have it... I don't give change when I don't. I also like hearing a bit of music on the streets, so I give change to buskers.
So... what's your policy when it comes to beggars?
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Comments
Some people end up homeless due to mental illness. Perhaps you could look into the stories of homeless people and find out if their state is excuseless. Maybe read some of the big issue?
You are doing well to be contemplating this issue alot of people are unaware or ignorant of it.
we really need to get an index sorted out and threads filed according to subject matter....Dunno how many times we've had this one come up....
It's not about the beggar.
A beggar is a human sentient being.
A beggar is in the same cycle of Samsara as you are.
How YOU react to the beggar is a sign of your own aversion, and Compassion, whether it be Idiotic or Wise...
if I see a beggar, and I have spare cash, I'll find a little local takeaway and buy him a coffee and something to eat.
That way, it's his choice if he accepts it and eats, and drinks.
I don't ever give money, because all too often at the moment, I don't have any to spare.
hell, I've been a half hour away from 'begging' myself.
There is every excuse for being homeless anywhere. Location is not an issue. In fact, the more affluent a place, the more noticeable it is.
All you need to do is to lose all you have; a job, transportation, and finally the ability to pay for the roof over your head, a divorce, and mental illness.
All these are circumstantial factors which lead some people to despair.
Despair and rock-bottom leads people to act in ways "ornery, upright, fair-minded good, hard-working citizens" find offensive, "violent and vulgar".
Before commenting and evaluating their attitude, try being them for a month, and see how society treats you.
It's no exaggeration that I have stared desolation and despair in the face.
I'm one of the really lucky ones.
One tiny twist of fate might have taken me to where they are now.
And nobody is immune.
When you look at a beggar in the face, see yourself.
because like it or not, you're interconnectedness makes you part of them.
This is kind of interesting. A girl at work asked if she could borrow some money and said she'd pay back twice the amount. 'course I said no problem, just pay back the same amount. I said I'd give her $10 and she said "Well if you gave me 20, I could buy some food as well". I asked "well what's the 10 for?"... she said "booze". What the hell? I gave her the 10 and told her to use it for food... 'course I saw her in the liquor department later that day and never heard from her again.
So yeah... I couldn't care less about the $10, but I don't like that I contributed to alcoholism.
Anyway, I'll pick up a Big Issue next time I am in the city.
I feel like you read too much into my choice of words and reached many conclusion. Yes, I do think being cussed at and threatened for not having any change as violent and vulgar and no I don't see myself as a "ornery, upright, fair-minded good, hard-working citizen".
Also, I didn't say that there's no excuse, I merely acknowledged that I don't see it. One is judgmental, another is acknowledging my own fault.. very different.
However, the idea of giving food rather than money is a good one, thanks.
It's theirs to do with as they choose.
If what they then do with it, makes you uncomfortable, then give it to them in a different form.
I have given food to street beggars. Sometimes, passing the same spot, later in the day, the beggar will be gone, but the food will still be there. Fine. Their choice.
Sometimes, I will pass the same spot, and both beggar and food will be gone.
What they did with it, I have no way of knowing, but again, the choice was theirs. Their food, after all.
Once, I passed by a beggar to whom I had given food, and he smiled at me, in recognition. "Thanks for the sandwich" he said. Then added, "I hate pickles...." We both laughed. "I'll bear that in mind, " I replied. Then he asked, "I don't suppose i could trouble you for a hot chocolate?"
Clever man.
he knew to not ask for money.
He knew I was a better giver of food.
I turned on my heels, went to the cafe I had bought his sandwich from, and bought a chocolate drink.
I took it back to him.
"I may not be able to do this every time I see you, " I explained. "Things are a bit tight with me too, but if I can, I will."
He squeezed my hand, and said nothing but drank his chocolate.
I never saw him again. But that's ok.
I hope he's getting his chocolate and sandwiches - with no pickle - somewhere else.....
I'm a recovered alcoholic and sponsor a guy whose living in a dry house in Bristol; he has spent a long time living on the streets, on and off, over the years, and through him I come into fairly frequent contact with guys who still do; though they may stay at Bristol's Salvation Army hostel (thought that's got a reputation of being a 'last stop' before dying, so they tend to try and avoid it unless the weather is really bad).
I myself never went as far as living on the streets; I think I would've committed suicide before that happened.
So here's my experience of guys who live on the streets; the majority of them are alcoholics and/or addicts - many have mental health problems. I have only met one long-term homeless man who did not drink or drug.
The official advice from the guy who started up The Big Issue (and lived on the streets himself), is not to give your money to homeless people, but to give it to a homeless charity. I agree with that advice, but I don't follow it myself. I give money directly to the homeless. Why? It makes me feel good.
The receiver will get alcohol and/or drugs regardless of whether you give them money; it's how they get relief from themselves. They'll beg, borrow, or steal; normally steal if need be.
When I give money, I normally say something along the lines that I'm an alkie in AA and point out where the nearest meeting is (there's nearly 100 per week in Bristol; they're everywhere), and hope they go sometime.
If there's a shop handy I'll buy a sandwich and water (water is good since it's hard to get free when you're homeless) and give it to them.
Also, if you do give money to an alkie/addict, maybe you're helping them along the path towards their 'rock bottom'; the point where they're in enough pain that they'll seek help to recover? Or maybe you're helping them along the road to death where they may get some relief (depending on what happens next) from the hell they live in. There's no real alternative for homeless people; it's recover or die and the sooner either happens is going to be a relief for them.
So for the above reasons, I personally see nothing wrong with giving money, and I know full well what it's going to be spent on, though I do say, "Get yourself some food with that", but you just know that's not going to happen.
I can't agree with the recover or die approach though.
:bigclap:
ShiftPlusOne - no one has "excuses" for being homeless. Why would anyone wholeheartedly choose to sleep in alleyways and have other people look down upon them?
Getting a job isn't so easy. I'm about to graduate university, and I have some friends who already graduated, and none of us have jobs lined up. We've all "worked really hard" (as that is what is valued in the West), but no work. These are people with university education.
Now imagine having maybe just high school level education, but no decent clothes and food, and little to no money. I think the odds are stacked much higher.
On first appraisal, I thought you were adopting a critical stance, and objecting to their behaviour.
If I was wrong, I apologise, but this is how it came across to me. hence the timbre of my reply....
Why?
They are in a desperate state at the bottom of their resistance. They are apt to be emotionally expressive, when it seems that people turn away from them, ignore their plight and seek to avoid them.
They are human beings and as such, if treated with non-judgemental respect and civility, are more apt to be approachable and less hostile.
In comparison to them, then, how do you see yourself, specifically?
That's not how it came across. Sorry....:o
I hope it works in the way you hope it works, and in the spirit in which it is given.
The Buddha advises to give wherever you feel inclined to give (SN 3.24), and I generally follow that advice. In other words, it's totally up to the individual where they feel like giving, and while some gifts bear greater fruit, every act of generosity is meritorious (AN 3.57).
As for myself, whenever I give money to someone on the street, it may not always be a gift that bears the greatest fruit, but when I give out of compassion and kindness, I'm not really thinking about what I'll get out of it as much as I'm hoping that it will help relieve some of the suffering the person I'm giving it to may be experiencing.
I don't know how people will use my gifts, and I tend not to think about it. Since I have a job and a roof over my head, I'm not really in a position to judge what someone who has neither does with a dollar I may happen to give them. I honestly can't imagine how much it sucks to be homeless and hungry, especially in the winter.
The 2nd one actually happened today, we have some Roma gypsies in the centre of town who beg with an old coffee cup basically sitting in puddles looking sorry for themselves, so i gave some loose change from my pocket and placed it into her cup. I felt sorry for her people walk past her looking at her like she doesn´t exist.About two hours later i saw the same begger playing a slot machine outside the supermarket.Live and learn,eh..
English isn't exactly one of my strong points... second language and all.
I did object a little to some behaviors. Not the act of begging, but the anger in response to not having change. The violent/angry thing only happened a couple of times so know that's the exception, not the norm. I understand the reasons for it, but I don't think that makes it okay.
I'll tell you how the post came about. I was walking home at night and saw a person sitting down with a sign asking for money. I wanted to give change but I didn't have any, so I wondered if maybe I should carry change with me just for that sort of situation. So, I wasn't thinking "ah, bloody beggars wanting to take money from hard working citizens... I wonder how other handle this problem", it was more along the lines of "I wonder what the right approach for helping is".
How do I see myself in comparison?
Just in a different situation. If my family wasn't there for me and I didn't have the friends that I have, I could be there as well, especially when I was younger. In one word, I suppose 'lucky'.
When I said I don't understand how someone can be homeless that was because of the many services provides. Vinnies and Salvos provide daily food vans, clothes and shelter. Centrelink provides jobs interviews and payments until you get a job as well as payments for people with disabilities. Supermarkets, call centres, fast food joints and the like are always hiring. Hell, the army is better than nothing So yeah, I do see Australia as a land of opportunity and I don't know how someone can stay homeless for long. I suppose people can lose determination... and not having an address or all the papers makes things a bit hairy.
I don't know, maybe I am still sounding judgmental or ignorant, but that's not where I am coming from. Thanks for the reply.
No.
Heard you the first time you posted it. Apparently some of us would like to discuss it anyway. Get over it.
But you may benefit from looking first to see if your question is already answered. It may be something that has been discussed recently.
I should just stop looking at threads that are losing interest for me. That is my own problem.
Sorry you're having a bad day, SherabDorje.
Not really. They provided spiritual services and teaching in their communities. In exchange the community took care of their material needs.
A beggar in a modern society doesn't have a symbiotic relationship with society, it's more of a parasitic relationship. Not saying they aren't deserving of assistance, but the nature of the relationship with society is different than that between a society and a monastery.
It's more important to ask their name, look them in the eye, shake their hand (or whatever cordial greeting is appropriate in your culture) and wish them luck or let them tell you their story. If they are truly asking for help and aren't just begging for booze, this can be much more helpful.
twaitsfan, I suppose. Still, I think giving a charity that's focused on helping people help themselves is more beneficial than providing a temporary escape.
When my parents lived in St Kilda, I would find a lot of people who would beg from me towards St Kilda beach at the end of Fitzroy St.
One time I had three guys approach me for money and instead, I offered to buy them lunch at one of the eateries along there. One of them took me up on the offer. I was lucky enough that he was a nice person and showed no violence towards me. But at least I know he walked away with a full stomach and that my money was not going in his arm or buying a bottle of alcohol. Best $20 I ever spent IMO.
It's a hard call. I know exactly where you are talking about (Swanston St). I hope you can find a resolve for your dilemma.
In metta,
Raven
Eventually someone gave him an old bag of circus peanuts, but that experience wounded something deep inside me. Looking back at it now it is obvious he was an immigrant worker who was out of work, and had nowhere else to go. He spoke very little English, and his clothes were filthy from sleeping in the dirt.
Of course I did not realize any of that at the time, since I was only 6-7 years of age. But I will never forget it.
Huh... it would seem to me you're alive, your brain and your body (at least your arms and hands) are working, you're obviously breathing, your heart is beating. Sounds like a GREAT day to me!
PS: Can we all take a solemn pledge here and now NOT to feed anyone, especially the homeless who are probably under- or malnourished as it is, ANYTHING from McDonalds? We're doing them more harm than good, no matter what our intentions... Well, okay, maybe a salad, but nothing else.
And while we're at it, don't feed it to ourselves either? By saying that I'm risking putting myself out of a job, but I'm willing to take that risk
One particular guy has the most horrendous story and spent a long time in the 'wilderness'; but if you met him you would think he was just a really nice, gentle guy. He's currently at university studying to teach sign language (he's deaf to quite a bad degree), he has a long term partner; he's laid back, he smiles a lot, and he has that certain 'twinkle' in his eye that truly happy people seem to have.
You'd almost think he was an accomplished Buddhist!
I just thought I'd tell you about him; it makes me feel good.
Or they're cold and just want a cup of cheap coffee to warm up.
A dollar or two doesn't get one very far in terms of drugs.
I give them change whenever I have some on me. If I don't I would just apologize.
People generally aren't homeless by choice for the sheer joy of it. It's a bit of a vicious circle too... people don't tend to hire someone with gaps in job history who walk in ungroomed with dirty secondhand clothing...
Well, when you haven't had food in days and you've been repeatedly turned down by people who "don't have change" carrying leather briefcases and wearing designer outfits, I would probably get pretty frustrated too.
The army has extremely strict admission rules and it's rather unlikely that a person in such a situation would be able to get in. A lot of homeless people happen to be veterans anyway. Not funny but
Here's an idea. Instead of handing out change constantly, donate to some of the organizations you just mentioned. Get their contact information and such to hand out to people in need instead and explain that you donate to them and that they will be able to help. Where I live anyway these places will arrange a taxi to pick people up to take them to the shelter and such so maybe you could call for them as well. Try talking to people instead of making assumptions about them. Maybe they don't know about these services, or had a bad experience, or whatever. Generally they're not out begging for food in the wet and cold because they enjoy the humiliation and judgment and the lack of change that people hand out.