Really, should I do that lord buddha?

ThailandTom

I read something which has been directly taken from what the buddha said and it was aimed at lay people. It was a collection of guidelines on how to lead a lay life according to the buddha and when it came to intoxicants it said something like, ''one should refrain from consuming alcohol or drugs, one should also prevent those around you from consuming intoxicants.'' It was slightly more detailed than this but you get the jist. If I were to take away my friends alcohol or drugs they may be taking, I am sure it would have a negative affect lol. After all, I am not their father and in no position to do such a thing. It seems a little like something a typical hardcore christian would do, think they have the right to go around shoving their beliefs down peoples throats....

Simonthepilgrim

ThailandTom wrote: »

I read something which has been directly taken from what the buddha said and it was aimed at lay people. It was a collection of guidelines on how to lead a lay life according to the buddha and when it came to intoxicants it said something like, ''one should refrain from consuming alcohol or drugs, one should also prevent those around you from consuming intoxicants.'' It was slightly more detailed than this but you get the jist. If I were to take away my friends alcohol or drugs they may be taking, I am sure it would have a negative affect lol. After all, I am not their father and in no position to do such a thing. It seems a little like something a typical hardcore christian would do, think they have the right to go around shoving their beliefs down peoples throats....

Do not try it, Tom. A guaranteed route into friendlessness. Live your life the way you choose. Be a model if you can. To paraphrase Saint Francis, "Share the Dharma but only use words if absolutely necessary".

ThailandTom

I really was never going to try such a thing lol, but I was wondering then if we should neglect this of what the buddha said, what else do we neglect or welcome... Where do you draw the line, are you a buddhist otherwise

being

I'm sure it was meant "if there is no negative consequences". For example when you can persuade a friend to not drink or take drugs in a friendly way - with compassion. Beginners as us can often confuse real compassion (especially if we lack it) with ego-tripping in such cases, so imho Simons quote fits here perfectly.
You can't control other peoples lives and I'm pretty sure this is not what Buddha was suggesting.

A very nice talk on the fifth precept by Thich Nhat Hanh.

caz

Who Did Buddha speak it to and at what time ?
Teachings on living a lay life are still relevant but it does need to be taken with wisdom as to how to apply this to our life today

ThailandTom

I will dig out the source, if you can wait a few moments

ThailandTom

The Buddha once explained how:
I will tell you the way of life of a householder, who becomes a good disciple.
Laying aside all violence, he would not kill a living creature, nor cause to kill,
nor allow others to kill. He should deliberately avoid taking anything, which
has not been freely given. Neither should he cause to steal, nor allow others
to steal. He should not transgress against another's wife. When gone to the
audience hall, court or assembly, he should neither speak false himself, nor
cause others to speak false, deceive or pretend. He should avoid all untruth.
He should also avoid intoxicating drinks and drugs, nor cause to drink, nor
allow others to drink or take drugs, since intoxication causes carelessness!
Intoxication makes negligent fools commit evil deeds accumulating demerit.
He should neither eat food at night, nor wear jewellery, nor use perfume...
He should sleep on a low couch or on the ground on a mat. For this they say
is the eight-fold fast day observance, declared by the Buddha, who has gone
beyond all suffering. Having kept this fast day every fortnight, with a clear
mind, rejoicing, he should in the morning share suitable food with the Sangha
of Bhikkhus. He should support his mother & father by making honest trade.
A vigilant householder living this Noble way of life is reborn among the devas
who shines bright... Sn 393-404

Alfonso

Vinaya and moral prescriptions are contingent, can be changed and must be comprehended according the context.
In my case it is simple, If I see that I can benefit the other by talking to him, then ok. Normally it is not the case, so I just give advice when someone asks it to me, or I see he is screaming to get help.
If they like taking drugs, etc. and talk me about that, I just tell them they are being big idiots and it is really and stupid and a childish attitude because it doesn't bring any benefit nor to him or his friends, only to the dealer. But still I don't give it like an "advice".
With this direct approach I've never had trobules, because the guys at my university are pretty cool guys hahahaha

Hope it serves you.

TreeLuvr87

I like Simon's point, to try and be a good model. That could be your way of taking intoxicants away from others, just by showing how life can still be fun/tolerable/whatever when sober. You can certainly follow The Buddha's advice when entertaining folks at your house by not allowing intoxicants in the home.

Jason

ThailandTom wrote: »

I read something which has been directly taken from what the buddha said and it was aimed at lay people. It was a collection of guidelines on how to lead a lay life according to the buddha and when it came to intoxicants it said something like, ''one should refrain from consuming alcohol or drugs, one should also prevent those around you from consuming intoxicants.'' It was slightly more detailed than this but you get the jist. If I were to take away my friends alcohol or drugs they may be taking, I am sure it would have a negative affect lol. After all, I am not their father and in no position to do such a thing. It seems a little like something a typical hardcore christian would do, think they have the right to go around shoving their beliefs down peoples throats....

I don't think 'prevent' is the best word to use here; I think it gives the wrong idea. Personally, I prefer Ireland's translation of Snp 2.14, which I think is more accurate (and practical):

A layman who has chosen to practice this Dhamma should not indulge in the drinking of intoxicants. He should not drink them nor encourage others to do so; realizing that it leads to madness. Through intoxication foolish people perform evil deeds and cause other heedless people to do likewise. He should avoid intoxication, this occasion for demerit, which stupefies the mind, and is the pleasure of foolish people.

ThailandTom

That would make a lot more sense from a buddhist perspective yes. I guess over the many hundreds of years and through a variety of langauges the translation can be subject to inaccuracies. Thank you Jason