Vices and Buddhism

BlackFlag

I always wanted to deepen my study and practice of Buddhism but I found it hard to do because of all my vices such as drinking and smoking. I quit drinking 74 days ago and now by some miracle I no longer have a desire to smoke cigarettes either so with that said I am very happy. The first thing I tried to do today was meditate, but gave up after a few seconds. I think, if I put more effort into it, I could probably do it. Also, perhaps I need to find my niche and be able to sit in a way that is comfortable. I have been able to meditate very deeply in the past but that was for a short period until I got back into drinking or smoking weed or something.

I feel a lot of things opening up for me though all of the sudden. I don't know if its because of the new medication I'm on or if it's from the acupuncture, but I'm just grateful and glad things are the way they are now. Maybe I will go back to my zen teacher, although I am becoming a little weary of Zen myself and am finding myself more interested in Theravada buddhism.

Usually these threads have some kind of question but I don't. However for the sake of giving a central point or meaning to this thread I will ask this:

How have you managed to deepen your spiritual practice and, if you have not been able to, what is preventing you from doing so?

Alfonso

BlackFlag wrote: »

I always wanted to deepen my study and practice of Buddhism but I found it hard to do because of all my vices such as drinking and smoking. I quit drinking 74 days ago and now by some miracle I no longer have a desire to smoke cigarettes either so with that said I am very happy. The first thing I tried to do today was meditate, but gave up after a few seconds. I think, if I put more effort into it, I could probably do it. Also, perhaps I need to find my niche and be able to sit in a way that is comfortable. I have been able to meditate very deeply in the past but that was for a short period until I got back into drinking or smoking weed or something.

I feel a lot of things opening up for me though all of the sudden. I don't know if its because of the new medication I'm on or if it's from the acupuncture, but I'm just grateful and glad things are the way they are now. Maybe I will go back to my zen teacher, although I am becoming a little weary of Zen myself and am finding myself more interested in Theravada buddhism.

Usually these threads have some kind of question but I don't. However for the sake of giving a central point or meaning to this thread I will ask this:

How have you managed to deepen your spiritual practice and, if you have not been able to, what is preventing you from doing so?

First of all, thanks for sharing your experience
The idea of going to speak to your teacher I think is a very good one. Also I'd like to give you this link: http://the12stepbuddhist.com/

Regarding weed, just don't smoke hahaha, it is pretty boring, really. At least when I smoked it was like... smoke, then go away alone to listen to music and drink thousand liters of juice. Then sleep... a lot. I didn't have any kind of clarity, and the experience of listening to music was the only interesting thing... meh, I got bored pretty easily; each time I smoked I felt more stupid.

Zayl

Alfonso wrote: »

First of all, thanks for sharing your experience
The idea of going to speak to your teacher I think is a very good one. Also I'd like to give you this link: http://the12stepbuddhist.com/

Regarding weed, just don't smoke hahaha, it is pretty boring, really. At least when I smoked it was like... smoke, then go away alone to listen to music and drink thousand liters of juice. Then sleep... a lot. I didn't have any kind of clarity, and the experience of listening to music was the only interesting thing... meh, I got bored pretty easily; each time I smoked I felt more stupid.

Hehe, my experiences with the herb have been mixed. I've made recordings on the bass guitar that would put Jaco or Flea to shame, and I'm being modest. Sober I can't even hold the guitar right. I don't smoke it anymore because its a personal choice of mine. But when I did smoke it, it felt like I was opening my mind a bit. I'd stare at the sky for hours, I'd think of humanity as a whole, etc. Of course this was all mental masturbation really, and nothing fruitful ever came of it other than it gave me a radically different view and that helped me later on because I began to be more skeptical of everything, and instead of just taking things as is I began to analyze my surroundings and the events occurring around me.

As for drinking, I still drink on occasion, but I never get hammered. The most I'll drink is until I have a happy buzz in my head and I sway a little when I stand, then I promptly stop. Again because of a personal choice, as getting plastered is a very bad experience for me, and I do whatever I can to avoid it.

As for smoking tobacco, I enjoy it thoroughly, and I've seen more than one monk stand outside and smoke before... so make of it what you will. I'll smoke anything from a Kretek to a Hookah to a Cigarette. Is it a vice? most definitely. Does it interfere in my practice? I think not. In the end it all comes down to personal preference, and how adept you are at controlling your vices, and not vice versa (lol)

Alfonso

Zayl wrote: »

Hehe, my experiences with the herb have been mixed. I've made recordings on the bass guitar that would put Jaco or Flea to shame, and I'm being modest. Sober I can't even hold the guitar right. I don't smoke it anymore because its a personal choice of mine. But when I did smoke it, it felt like I was opening my mind a bit. I'd stare at the sky for hours, I'd think of humanity as a whole, etc. Of course this was all mental masturbation really, and nothing fruitful ever came of it other than it gave me a radically different view and that helped me later on because I began to be more skeptical of everything, and instead of just taking things as is I began to analyze my surroundings and the events occurring around me.

As for drinking, I still drink on occasion, but I never get hammered. The most I'll drink is until I have a happy buzz in my head and I sway a little when I stand, then I promptly stop. Again because of a personal choice, as getting plastered is a very bad experience for me, and I do whatever I can to avoid it.

As for smoking tobacco, I enjoy it thoroughly, and I've seen more than one monk stand outside and smoke before... so make of it what you will. I'll smoke anything from a Kretek to a Hookah to a Cigarette. Is it a vice? most definitely. Does it interfere in my practice? I think not. In the end it all comes down to personal preference, and how adept you are at controlling your vices, and not vice versa (lol)

It does interfere. Smoking damages your channels... it is a really bad idea, and it is not correct for a monk to be smoking.

Zayl

Alfonso wrote: »

It does interfere. Smoking damages your channels... it is a really bad idea, and it is not correct for a monk to be smoking.

It could be argued that anything damages your channels, every time your heart beats for example you are a tad closer to death

Alfonso

Zayl wrote: »

It could be argued that anything damages your channels, every time your heart beats for example you are a tad closer to death

No. It is not the same, I'm not talking of a so "subtle" level of damage, neither at a theoretical level. Combustion does damage your channels, it is different from heart pumping... it keeps you alive. Smoking doesn't. Arguing impermanence is not also correct, because it is different for a body to start deteriorating because of causes that are beyond our individual will, like sickness, than going on and grabbing a cigar and hurt yourself because of combustion and smoke.

robot

Alfonso - Thanks for taking a firm stance on tobacco. The enjoyment of smoking is really only having the unpleasant effects of the addiction relieved by consuming more nicotine. I smoked as a teen and many of the young men that work for me smoke. They say that they enjoy it but it doesn't look like it to me. They need it to stay calm. I'm going to the funeral next week of yet another friend who became a victim of throat cancer due to smoking.:( As to meditation practice, it may not effect a smoker who has not smoked for too long; but how could you maintain meditative concentration with a serious smokers hack? Or the suffocation of emphysema or lung cancer. There is no doubt that it would give new meaning to focusing on the breath. Zayl, rather than say how much you enjoy smoking wouldn't it be better to say that while still a smoker, that you intend to quit as soon as possible? Or would that be wrong speech? Do you intend to keep smoking till it kills you?:crazy: A percentage of smokers suffer sickness from their addiction, everyone knows that. It is important to remember that young people use this site, and need to be encouraged to avoid drinking and smoking or to quit if they are already doing it. It doesn't help anyone to believe that it is harmless enjoyment. I know it sounds preachy. It always does. I don't think there is any other way to put it.-P

Alfonso

robot wrote: »

Alfonso - Thanks for taking a firm stance on tobacco. The enjoyment of smoking is really only having the unpleasant effects of the addiction relieved by consuming more nicotine. I smoked as a teen and many of the young men that work for me smoke. They say that they enjoy it but it doesn't look like it to me. They need it to stay calm. I'm going to the funeral next week of yet another friend who became a victim of throat cancer due to smoking.:( As to meditation practice, it may not effect a smoker who has not smoked for too long; but how could you maintain meditative concentration with a serious smokers hack? Or the suffocation of emphysema or lung cancer. There is no doubt that it would give new meaning to focusing on the breath. Zayl, rather than say how much you enjoy smoking wouldn't it be better to say that while still a smoker, that you intend to quit as soon as possible? Or would that be wrong speech? Do you intend to keep smoking till it kills you?:crazy: A percentage of smokers suffer sickness from their addiction, everyone knows that. It is important to remember that young people use this site, and need to be encouraged to avoid drinking and smoking or to quit if they are already doing it. It doesn't help anyone to believe that it is harmless enjoyment. I know it sounds preachy. It always does. I don't think there is any other way to put it.-P

Thanks, and thanks for telling us your experience. And no, it is not preachy, they are facts, and the fact is that smoking is neither cool nor intelligent. It is harmful and stupid to not want to stop.

karmadorje

I smoked as a teenager and young adult, but gave it up at the insistence of my lama who explained the problem with doing drugs and smoking. I also gave up LSD, ecstacy and all the other plethora of psychotropics I indulged in.

I have not missed them much. In 2004, I watched my brother-in-law die at age 40 of metastasized lung cancer. He was a smoker. Our time here on the planet is too short as it is. Why would we want to risk making it shorter?

PietroPumokin

MM, VICE!!!!!!!!!

Zayl

robot wrote: »

Alfonso - Thanks for taking a firm stance on tobacco. The enjoyment of smoking is really only having the unpleasant effects of the addiction relieved by consuming more nicotine. I smoked as a teen and many of the young men that work for me smoke. They say that they enjoy it but it doesn't look like it to me. They need it to stay calm. I'm going to the funeral next week of yet another friend who became a victim of throat cancer due to smoking.:( As to meditation practice, it may not effect a smoker who has not smoked for too long; but how could you maintain meditative concentration with a serious smokers hack? Or the suffocation of emphysema or lung cancer. There is no doubt that it would give new meaning to focusing on the breath. Zayl, rather than say how much you enjoy smoking wouldn't it be better to say that while still a smoker, that you intend to quit as soon as possible? Or would that be wrong speech? Do you intend to keep smoking till it kills you?:crazy: A percentage of smokers suffer sickness from their addiction, everyone knows that. It is important to remember that young people use this site, and need to be encouraged to avoid drinking and smoking or to quit if they are already doing it. It doesn't help anyone to believe that it is harmless enjoyment. I know it sounds preachy. It always does. I don't think there is any other way to put it.-P

*shrugs* it's not like I have never tried to quit, it's quite hard. and seeing as how I'm going to die young anyway I don't view it as too big of a deal. Yes I am perfectly aware that it is horrendously unhealthy, I'm not a complete idiot... theres still a few parts missing. I would never encourage anyone to smoke, ever. But neither would I discourage people who already smoke.

I indulge in a few vices, yes. And not once has it ever interfered with proper practice. Not all of us have to live like monks you know. As I have said in a different thread, due to an amount of hereditary diseases I have I have had a multitude of medical professionals assure me that living past 40 would be a miracle. Seriously, the possibility of lung cancer is the least of my worries. If this is not comfortable for you, then I apologize for that was not my intention.

I smoke, I drink (rarely) and I used to do drugs. And am still able to properly meditate and live mindfully.

Dazzle

Hi BlackFlag,

I used to take drugs and smoke years ago, but I didn't find it difficult to give them up for the sake of better mental clarity.

If you are interested in Theravada, you might enjoy listening to some of the talks on this website...and they're beneficial for people of any tradition to listen to.

http://www.dhammatalks.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=34:dhammatalks&Itemid=61

I also recommend this meditation series. The first video is a brief introduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7a9Ur2x0o


With kind wishes,

Dazzle


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robot

Zayl- I hope you did not think I was saying you are an idiot. I wasn't. I did infer that to want to smoke yourself to death would make you crazy. Being that that won't be happening to you, my apologies for making that inference. However, because you said that you had tried to quit, I guess that means that, in that it is not going to be what kills you, it is either too expensive or you don't really enjoy it. I won't apologize for preaching about the dangers of smoking though, particularly if there could be potential smokers in the audience. Apparently there are people as young as twelve using this forum who still have to make these kind of choices. This is a thread about vices, right? I tell the guys that work for me that getting lectured about smoking and drinking is part of the job description and if they don't want it they need to get a different job. I guess they like the money.lol I would not try to change someones mind anywhere else because they always get defensive and it ruins a friendly exchange. As for monks that smoke, well they are human, but I'm inclined to think that they should be trying to set an example, at least when they are in their robes. -P

Shutoku

I think smoking is generally unwise and unhealthy, but I see no real reason it would interfere with practice, and in fact given the popularity of smoking in the east, I suspect there have been more than a few pretty wise Buddhists over the years who smoked.

As for alcohol or weed, I think the middle way is fine for most people. If you are trying to meditate drunk or stoned probably it won't work too well (although I have to use codeine for migraines, and sometimes meditation is quite good...but then codeine is a different sort of drug and tends to stop the thinking a bit anyway) but if you are having an occasional drink socially...even getting drunk every now and then, it isn't the end of the world.
It is only when it is no longer in moderation that problems arise.

Zayl. I won't preach and I don't know the details, but I would think that living a healthy lifestyle is more important if you think you could have a short life expectancy. Our health, like everything else is an interconnected composite, and so what we do to one part of our body impacts the other parts as well. I took a hypnosis seminar 21 years ago and have never craved a cigaretter since. (after 13 years of smoking)
My wife had less success with hypnosis, but used something called champix (I think it has a slightly different name in the US) and successfully quit after 25 years of smoking.
There are ways of doing it that make it easier and it cannot help but benefit you to quit.
Still I do understand the perspective you posted.
Best wishes to you and your health.

ThailandTom

getting plastered is a very bad experience for me, and I do whatever I can to avoid it.

I very rarely get hangovers and I never use to get come downs from binging on ecstasy all night either. There are less downsides to these vices when you do not have the next day to deal with. Me and my friend were speaking today in fact about this. We wentout last night on the sauce and ended up on the beach with some thia's and their guitar until the sun came up. My friend has been dead all day whereas I woke up at 12 after 5 hours sleep totally normal. I have wondered why is this? I drink little water as well, so it is either my brain not sending/receiving certain signals of damage or tiredness, or I just don;t get affected lol

Saying that, there are still obvious downsides such as being unskillful when drunk, delusional and being a genuine foolio.