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Alan Watts

sndymornsndymorn Veteran
edited November 2010 in General Banter
On page 297 of his autobiography , "In My Own Way," Alan sets out a cryptograph in the footnote. I cannot solve it. I know of no one who has.

Comments

  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited October 2010
    Well since we don't all have that book what do you want us to do? :)
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Here is the puzzle from "In My Own Way"(p.297) which Alan said , when solved, would reveal "another influence," on his book and therefore his life.
    He listed : Alice Meynell,Walter de la Mare, Emily Dickinson , Kenneth Rexroth,Karl Shapiro,Jean Burden,Eric Barker . He then stated that a "cryptographic study would produce a clue." One need study a dedicatory poem, found in his book "Nature, Man , and Woman " (published 1958) from which the "clue" can be obtained. It follows:

    To the beloved company of the stars, the moon, and the sun;
    to ocean, air, and the silence of space;
    to jungle, glacier, and desert,
    soft earth, clear water, and fire on my hearth.
    To a certain waterfall in a high forest;
    to night rain upon the roof and the wide leaves,
    grass in the wind, tumult of sparrows in a bush,
    and eyes which give light to the day.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    Could I be so bold as to ask why this matters, at all?
    Why so cryptic?
    What's his point?
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Alan has been gone for nearly forty years. People still speak of him. I have recently found him and his teachings, and believe he is very important figure in the history of East meeting West. I want to understand him but cannot figure this riddle out.
    Maybe this information is unimportant , but I have found no one who knows the answer,
    including Mark Watts himself.
    Why , Alan, a cryptograph?
    What, Alan, is point?
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I hope this meets criterion for 'General banter"
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Well, whatever it meant for Watts, it's beautiful as a stand-alone anyway.

    Good poetry. In its serene beauty it really speaks to me.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    sndymorn wrote: »
    P.S.
    Is this not the epitome of "General Banter'?

    Is he a superior of Corporal Punishment?
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Is this a pun? I am sorry I do not understand.

    I won't lay a hand on it till I understand better.
    ;)
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Maybe Fede's saying, "Don't beat yourself up over this, Kid. It's really not important."

    But if you really, really gotta know the esoteric meaning, good luck (Only, sorry, we probably can't help you.)!

    Really, we're all allowed a bit of fun here. Please don't take everything so seriously.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    federica wrote: »
    Is he a superior of Corporal Punishment?
    sndymorn wrote: »
    Is this a pun? I am sorry I do not understand.

    I won't lay a hand on it till I understand better.
    ;)

    It's a pun on words.
    They're both members of the military establishment, but in common parlance, terms for other things too.
    As Nirvana says, this is just a bit of fun, and we tend to view many things with a bit of humour....

    I also see no reason why you felt your original comment was 'rude'.
    Trust me, we've seen far worse on here, and much of it, unedited....

    It's quite self defeating to take everything too seriously. Just lightening up! :)
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Nirvana, though the puzzle might be obscure, the solution is simple math. Cloud asked me " what do you want us to do?" Since Alan Watts is on topic, I ask for help .
    I do not insist ,only ask.
    Rudeness was my stock and trade, Federica, I keep watch on myself now. Sorry, but this subject is serious to me.
    So I hope you both recognize that billiard table I drag around (un light to be sure) , for now, must come to this forum.
    Wait, let me check. Yep, there it is.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    All things in Moderation.
    Including Moderation.
    have a care that, bearing in mind that Rudeness was your stock in trade, it might be just as unskilful to err too far to the opposite extreme.
    Enlightenment can mean being light of heart also. In fact, I believe the Buddha recommends it....
    It's a lesson the Buddha taught, about having the lute strings too tight or too slack.

    And I love to play billiards....;)
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I think this is a pretty cool puzzle, though I don't know anything about cryptography so I can't figure it out. :)
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Federica
    Are you suggesting I bring balls and cue on my next visit?
    Sheesh, talk about baggage!
    Thanks for the comparison to music, and the referral to that article. I see what you mean.
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Back To Alan Watts: Gary Snyder recently wrote , "all of Buddhism (in the West) has moved ...much more toward the disciplined and organized life of traditional Japanese Zen Buddhism than Alan (Watts) would have liked... his memory is somewhat marginalized now."
    Did we need , as it were, Alan as a catalyst for this movement toward Buddhism in the West?
    Would Buddhism be as far along here in the USA without him?
  • upalabhavaupalabhava
    edited November 2010
    This guy named neuralzen over at Reddit just posted the following and I thought you might be interested.

    I recently acquired a rare mimeographed document written by Alan Watts in 1939, and as I have not found reference to it an any of his body of work I have made it available on the web. Enjoy!

    Perhaps it holds a clue to the answer you seek.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Upalabhava, by your location you seem to be implying that you're just a regular human being, merely a compatriot on this fragile island home that is the Earth. Are you on the level?

    As for Alan Watts' influence on the spread of Eastern thought in our age, I'd take issue with anyone seriously disputing his importance. He wrote, was read widely, and left a mark on lots of us coming up in the 70s and earlier.
  • upalabhavaupalabhava
    edited November 2010
    Nirvana wrote: »
    Upalabhava, by your location you seem to be implying that you're just a regular human being, merely a compatriot on this fragile island home that is the Earth. Are you on the level?

    I'm just a jewel in the Heart of Dixie. Om mani padme hum.

    Nirvana wrote: »
    As for Alan Watts' influence on the spread of Eastern thought in our age, I'd take issue with anyone seriously disputing his importance. He wrote, was read widely, and left a mark on lots of us coming up in the 70s and earlier.

    Hey, if y'all haven't seen the Alan Watt's Theater, you should go check it out. Also, did you know that Watts is said to have made the "first psychedelic LP" called This is it! ?
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Interesting article. I too am a fan of Alan Watts and enjoy his thoughts. I have see all those animations you linked to and know the "South Park" guys are behind some of it. I wonder what the connection is?
  • JustPassingThroughJustPassingThrough
    edited November 2010
    Thanks for the reminder.
    I miss him still, as I miss the sense of freedom and discovery that was when east came west.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    A NewBuddhist member has added some
    stunning film footage to a few Alan Watts
    lectures, and uploaded them to YOUTUBE here.

    Here they are again:
    tim45174 wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE1aJqGy4L8

    http://www.youtube.com/user/youcreateyourmeaning#p/a/u/1/Q4KzRrQstaQ

    They're GREAT!!!
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    The protypical "man on the mountain top" to whom Alan refers is Gary Snyder, the poet. they were great friends and Gary lives up there still.
  • neuralzenneuralzen
    Hmm, I wonder if the cryptography referred to by Watts is stenography, as the line in his dedicatory poem that states "To a certain waterfall in a high forest" seems to point to Kenneth Rexroth's poem 'Lyell's Hypothesis Again'. None other of the poets listed talk about waterfalls much in their poetry, and the dedicatory poem's imagery is similar to Rexroth's style. Additionally, Rexroth helped translate some Chinese poetry, so you could see why Watts would especially admire and be inspired by him. Anyway, Rexroth's poem (and general work for that matter) centers on life, death, and love; arguably themes of the book.

    http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/lyell-s-hypothesis-again/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Rexroth
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    Hmm, I wonder if the cryptography referred to by Watts is stenography, as the line in his dedicatory poem that states "To a certain waterfall in a high forest"

    http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/lyell-s-hypothesis-again/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Rexroth
  • sndymornsndymorn Veteran
    Thank you for considering this mystery. I have discovered the answer to the cryptograph (after many hours study) but am loathe to reveal it. It is not, however , Rexroth. I am considering the writing of a book prompted partly by my discovery.
    As part of my search, I read the authors listed but did not discover Rexroth's reference to a waterfall... I will have a look.


  • neuralzenneuralzen
    Ah, well if it is an actual cipher then my theory is bunk! I played with basic number-letter substitution at first but saw nothing, but I'll give it another go.
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