Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Engagement
Siddhartha found Enlightenment.
What did he do then?
He didn't go away and live in a cave somewhere - He turned around and engaged with people!
Is this not a form of Attachment?
Thoughts?
What did he do then?
He didn't go away and live in a cave somewhere - He turned around and engaged with people!
Is this not a form of Attachment?
Thoughts?
0
Comments
An fully enlightened being would help others to the best of their ability as long as they live. In the Buddha's case, the most karmically-charged action to propel wholesome conditions into the future (still clearly in effect today) was the teaching of this doctrine/method which was at that time unknown to the world; the foundation of a monastic lineage to preserve the teachings, dedicate themselves to this goal of selflessness, and offer teachings to householders as well. Buddhism isn't "about" abandoning the world, though renouncing all attachments to worldly life are part of the process; it is about coming to grips with your true nature and that of all phenomena; in this way it is about embracing the world as it is, and all selfish desire and motivations cease with no possibility of re-occurrence.
You may want to do some studying of free online materials on Buddhism. I would suggest http://www.buddhanet.net as a possible source.
The Dalai Lama's Wisdom - The Difference Between Attachment and Compassion
"I would like to explain the meaning of compassion which is often misunderstood. Genuine compassion is based not on our own projections and expectations, but rather on the rights of the other: irrespective of whether another person is a close friend or an enemy, as long as that person wishes for peace and happiness and wishes to overcome suffering, then on that basis we develop a genuine concern for his or her problems. This is genuine compassion. Usually when we are concerned about a close friend, we call this compassion. This is not compassion; it is attachment. Even in marriage, those marriages that last only a short time, do so because of attachment - although it is generally present - but because there is also compassion. Marriages that last only a short time do so because of a lack of compassion; there is only emotional attachment based on projection and expectation. When the only bond between close friends is attachment, then even a minor issue may cause one´s projections to change. As soon as our projections change, the attachment disappears, because that attachment was based solely on projection and expectation. It is possible to have compassion without attachment, and similarly, to have anger without hatred. Therefore we need to clarify the distinctions between compassion and attachment, and between anger and hatred. Such clarity is useful in our daily life and in our efforts toward world peace. I consider these to be basic spiritual values for the happiness of all human beings, regardless of whether one is a believer or a nonbeliever." - His Holiness the Dalai Lama
I can finesse "attachment", but if I am truly one who is "no longer born into this world" and free of all attachment , I am not involved in the cares of the world.
This is why the Bodhisattva vow entails suffering.
I disagree. The buddha had compassion, yet he did not suffer.
Attachment is attachment.
Ed. There are subtle issues here.
We try to cultivate an equanimous compassion as Buddhists, but as we are yet affected by mental defilements this will not always be perfected compassion. What it is supposed to be, what should be the standard to use as a model, is unrelated to attachment.
0% non-attachment "one is no longer born into the world". The wheel still has some old momentum, but once that plays out. Thats it.
Attachment is attachment. The Equinimity of realizing emptiness/form or seeing "one's true nature" is a world apart from pre-practice. There are degrees, a spectrum.
The Bodhisattva vow keeps a trace of attachment. That traces diminishes forever, without end.
Take it or leave it. This is just one shmo posting.
and now Painting........
A Bodhisattva can attain full liberation too, of course. Remaining or coming back into the world is not implying a requirement to "abstain" from liberation. It is not about Nirvana, for Nirvana is never attained and has no intrinsic property to change anything else... it is simply realized. It's already our nature regardless of knowing or not-knowing. It is the intent that determines our effectiveness in helping to alleviate, through compassion, other sentient beings. It is complete abandonment of the self and all ignorance that reveals the Buddha's compassion.
of Buddha Dipankara many universes back. He then thought to himself:
"Though I am able to make an end of suffering right here and now in
this very life, that would be no advantage for anyone else. What use
would I have of crossing over myself alone. I will attain omniscience,
become like a ferry thereby, and carry many across, humans as well
as devas. I will attain Buddhahood for the sake of the multitude..."
He thereby delayed his own awakening billions of years.
We may now show gratitude towards that benevolent
determination, which is not attachment but compassion.
Why so? As soon as the job is done he leaves with no trace!
Not looking back even once...
Source: The excelllent:
Story of Gotama Buddha
Translated by: N. A. Jayawickrama
Publisher: Pali Text Society
http://www.pariyatti.org/Bookstore/productdetails.cfm?PC=710
Translation of the Jataka-nidana, or the "story of the origins." This is an introduction to the text of the Jatakas, the collection of stories of the past lives of the Buddha Gotama. This text also stands on its own, dealing with the story of the Buddha from his existence as Sumedha up to the acceptance of the monastery of Jetavana.
That is not what I am saying. There is awakening. Awakening is ongoing
without end on the Bodhisattva path. It is not a final state.
-There are great degrees of freedom. that by the measure of pre-practice are Great Equanimity. Great radical Freedom and Bliss. This is ongoing. Yet this involves tying the loose ends of the world forever. The Bodhisattva has compassion, the Bodhisattva cares, the Bodhisatvva suffers.
-Then there are those who are no longer born into the world.
To be honest I don't expect this post to resonate with anyone. It is not trying to really. But I don't think you are "duh" for seeing it differently.
It seems that the split of view was unnecessary, though the change in perspective was.
Not so friend. Long delayed yes. Often many ~ 50-100 universes.
But eventually then all these grandiose heroes completes all the 30
ultimate perfections, deliver the Dhamma that is sweet in the beginning,
sweet in the middle and sweet in the end to those who can comprehend
and use it... When their looong mission is completed they go to where
one never returns... That they stick (attachment) to their task is in
this case VERY ADVANTAGEOUS. So is it, when WE stick to our task
of completing the Noble 8-Fold Way...
Ur Faith (Saddha) is leaking here. Cure is daily worship of the 3 jewels exactly so:
http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/II/The_Three_Jewels.htm
With respect Bhikkhu Samahita, the view I am describing is one found in Zen.
Zen practice does not seek to go where one never returns. Right or wrong, or erroneous as that may be in your view. This is why I say there remains an attachment with no end. Once again, this is not correct Dhamma. But it is correct Zen.
You can use those words, but it's not exactly true. Awakening is experiencing what is, and what is does not become. Yet you appear to become in your taking up of the aggregates. But in "becoming" you're not becoming, hence the nature of emptiness. Awakening is coming to understand the great stillness of motion, the unborn truth that does not change. It is neither accurate to say that it's an instantaneous thing nor that it's ongoing.
Yes stillness and motion. Tmeless/time. not-becoming/becoming.
By ongoing I mean that the goal is not "to go where one never returns."
I've had the good fortune to practice as a lay person with the Theravadin Sangha, and also have practiced with the Zen Sangha. So it has been a matter of practice to come to terms with differences. Both are wonderful, both tend to collapse the other into their own view, naturally.
Anyway This is my last post in this forum. It is time to just focus on practice and Sangha. Enough has been said.
Good luck Journey.
By ongoing I mean that the goal is not "to go where one never returns."
I've had the good fortune to practice as a lay person with the Theravadin Sangha, and also have practiced with the Zen Sangha. So it has been a matter of practice to come to terms with differences. Both are wonderful, both tend to collapse the other into their own view, naturally.
Anyway This is my last post in this forum. It is time to just focus on practice and Sangha. Enough has been said.
Good luck Journey.[/quote]
I've always found it interesting that you practice with theravada and zen. Anyways, thank you and good luck to you as well.
My original post was about my ignorance and not about wishing to start an argument amongst practicioners.
Many thanks to all for your thoughtful replies and especially to Cloud for the links.
You have all been most helpful and I appreciate your kindness and compassion deeply.
My thanks to all who took the time to post.