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Is death also impermanent?
I was wondering whether we could use, impermanence, only to explain the possibility of rebirth. The Buddha said, everything is impermanent. If everything is impermanent, then would this also apply to death? If death is also impermanent, then, death eventually ends, and life starts again. What are your thoughts on this?
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Yes, you could certainly make that argument. In fact, this is similar to the 'cyclical argument' used by Socrates in Plato's dialogue, Phaedo.
I think that where people tend to get hung up on rebirth is that it doesn't make sense from their current 'personal/egocentric' perspective. 'I am currently a human being. How can I become a dog?'
But as you point out, everything is impermanent, everything is interdependent. One day, I will die and then I will no longer exist as a singular physical entity. Yet nothing is ever destroyed in the universe. Things just... become other things. The clouds become rain, water becomes the clouds.
So why should one fear death? It is just another change of state. You have been changing every single moment of your life. You are not a permanent unchanging self, but are instead a product of various forces of the universe; biological, physical, psychological, etc.
My personal take on rebirth (and it is just my personal take) is based around the question: what is there to be reborn, and why must it be reborn 'instantly'? If I die, then the person known as me is kaput, gone, no more. No memories, no likes and dislikes. The various bits that I consist of seperate and move out into the universe, I return to a state of zero.
Yet some things do continue. If I have done good in my life, then those good actions move down the causal chains of existence along with everything else. The person to whom I acted kindly towards remembers that kindness and, hopefully, gives kindness to someone else. Likewise, if I have done evil in my life, then these things move throughout existence just the same. Nothing is ever destroyed, not even the results of your actions.
So years after my death someone is born. This person, dependent on where they are born and to whom they are born, will be exposed to the results of my actions, amplified or negated by the actions of others. Is this person not then subject to my 'Karma' (or 'Action')? Are they (not just physically but mentally and socially) not the product of my actions, among the actions of others? Who knows what the odds are, but my physical matter may even end up temporarily forming a part of this person, or the house they live in or even the car they drive.
There is no 'me' to be reborn, this was taught by the Buddha. Yet nothing is ever destroyed. Everything you are and everything you do creates ripples in the world. From the smallest action to the greatest endeavour, you create effects in the universe. At the point of death, the things that make up 'you' don't just leave the universe. future consciousnesses will have to live out the consequences of your actions. They may suffer just as you now suffer. They may find peace, just as you find peace.
Does it not matter simply because they are not 'you'?
(Phew... that was a lot longer than I intended it to be :eek:)
_/|\_
Thank you for your insightful response. The length of your post was fine. I agree with you. After we die, the effects from our actions still have an effect. We are still experiencing the effects from the works of great scientists who have passed away, for example, Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, so in a sense, these people are still with us. Also, the effects from the Buddha's actions are still present even though he passed away two thousand five hundred years ago. So, we can say, that no one really dies, our thoughts and the effects from our thoughts continue to have an effect long after we die. I do believe in rebirth for the following reasons.
- As I mentioned, death is also impermanent.
- Law of conservation of energy. Energy in the universe is always constant. Hence, once we die, we need to reappear in some form to keep the energy constant.
- Near Death Experiences: This is suggesting something.
- The mystery of our consciousness.
- The concept of balance: nearly everything in life is based on the concept of balance, for example, work life balanced, balanced diet, balance when driving a car, things should not be too easy, too hard, too slow, too fast etc.
Life is interesting.
All impermanent phenomena are subject to these laws, to this Dharma. As such, there is no difference or different "essence" of humans, trees or stars; the Dharma is the nature of all of these things. Birth and death, as a beginning and an end, do not hold up as truths in and of themselves. They are no more real than a measurement made with a ruler.
Everything that your body consists of now was once part of something else, and will be again.
Death is a conceptual label that we apply to a conventional phenomena. Since death is conceptual and conventional it falls under the rubric of conditioned existence and is therefore impermanent.
It's an interesting take but it has some truth to it, if life is a circle of life and death, then life must follow death. After all, how did life come into being to begin with? If the universe is eventually going to die, wouldn't another big bang just start the whole process over again? You were nothing before your parents conceived you, if you die you become nothing again, you must be destined to be born again.
This is why Buddhism stresses the end of the cycle of rebirth so that birth and death can be transcended, and I think the only thing that escapes birth and death is the axis of the wheel of becoming, the supreme soul, which is eternal and prior to birth and death.