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How to get started in vajrayana buddhism?

edited November 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Vajrayana buddhism really interests me. There are no centers anywhere near me, so I can't meet anywhere like weekly or more because I need to drive an hour and a half to get to a center. However, I would think that you wouldn't need to meet that often to progress down the vajrayana path, assuming you kept up practice on your own. So...what do I do? How do I get started?

Comments

  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I always thought that Vajryana had more emphasis on having a teacher
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    I believe that is so.
    It is somewhat limiting in many ways.
    What draws you to it, that makes you consider it your path?
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited November 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    So...what do I do? How do I get started?

    Find a qualified teacher and receive an empowerment for one of their lineage's tantric practices (e.g., deity yoga, guru yoga, etc.). That's pretty much the only way.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    edited November 2010
    federica wrote: »
    I believe that is so.
    It is somewhat limiting in many ways.
    What draws you to it, that makes you consider it your path?

    What do you practice?
    What particular sect?
    Do you have one?
  • edited November 2010
    I understand that there is a big emphasis on teacher in vajrayana. I just think that if I saw him like once every other week or so that would be ok. And it appeals to me cuz of how interesting buddhist tantra sounds as well as they say it's the fastest path to enlightenment.
  • edited November 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    Vajrayana buddhism really interests me. There are no centers anywhere near me, so I can't meet anywhere like weekly or more because I need to drive an hour and a half to get to a center. However, I would think that you wouldn't need to meet that often to progress down the vajrayana path, assuming you kept up practice on your own. So...what do I do? How do I get started?
    The best way to get started is to start studying the Pali and Sanskrit scriptures and their commentaries while you look into opportunities to meet a teacher and sangha.
    Once you have established a relationship with a teacher you can talk to him or her directly about how to move forward. One doesnt really "get started" with Vajrayana. You have to decide if you are prepared to make the commitments involved after you have evaluated yourself and how you would like to proceed.
  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I am in agreement that a teacher's physical presence is most beneficial in studying Vajrayana - however, if you are somewhat isolated distance learning is an ideal way to gather knowledge and perhaps even obtain a degree or certificate (which would please your ego immensely - and that's okay.). It is important to investigate such programs as these and satisfy oneself that they are legitimate. Just a suggestion - while you search for a teacher.

    http://www.namdrolingmt.org/cybershedra.html

    http://www.maitripa.org/academic_catalogue.html

    http://www.naropa.edu/distancelearning/index.cfm

    http://www.bhaisajyaguru.com/Clinical-Ayurvedic-Therapist-Distance-Learning-Ayurveda-Correspondence-Course-index.htm

    http://www.rigpaus.net/

    http://www.fpmt.org/education/dbdescription.php

    http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1071
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    I understand that there is a big emphasis on teacher in vajrayana. I just think that if I saw him like once every other week or so that would be ok. And it appeals to me cuz of how interesting buddhist tantra sounds as well as they say it's the fastest path to enlightenment.

    Who's "they"...?
    If it's Vajrayana practitioners, well.... they would say that, wouldn't they?:D

    You do realise that Enlightenment is not a goal to be reached but a process to be experienced at any time you're ready?
  • edited November 2010
    federica wrote: »
    Who's "they"...?
    If it's Vajrayana practitioners, well.... they would say that, wouldn't they?:D

    You do realise that Enlightenment is not a goal to be reached but a process to be experienced at any time you're ready?

    Right, but from my understanding vajrayana makes the loss of ego thing quite easy. I am happy with what i'm currently doing and the mahayana path, it just intrigues me is all due to the lofty claims people make about it.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I find any statement that involves any form of the phrase "they say" to be highly suspect. Question everything. "They" don't necessarily know any more than you do, and usually "they" have an agenda. There is no "fastest path" to enlightenment except the Noble Eightfold Path. Anything other than that is man made window dressing. Teachers are wonderful, but they don't give you a hall pass to enlightenment. Don't forget that Buddha got where he did all by his little lonesome.
    TheJourney wrote: »
    ...vajrayana makes the loss of ego thing quite easy

    DANGER!! DANGER!! DANGER!!

    Who told you that nonsense? Where do I sign up?
  • edited November 2010
    Mountains wrote: »
    Don't forget that Buddha got where he did all by his little lonesome.

    This is not true at all.
    The Buddha had several different teachers who presented him with a multitude of methods that he explored and perfected before Buddhahood.
    This is a common misrepresentation of the Buddha's life and experience.
    The only part of the Buddha's experience and realization that he did without guidance was when he revealed and started teaching his own semi-unique set of teachings.
  • edited November 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    Right, but from my understanding vajrayana makes the loss of ego thing quite easy.
    I've been practicing Vajrayana for quite some time and have never heard this before.
  • JoshuaJoshua Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I believe I've heard those same claims, that Vajrayana is the best option if you want to reach enlightenment in this lifetime, it's a pity I can't remember where. I suppose one ought to be a bit more circumspect towards audacious claims like these on second thought, but until this moment I've been stumbling around Vajrayana struggling to understand even exactly what tantra is and a bit subconsciously trying to dismiss some common conceptions that Vajrayana Buddhism is full of a bunch of "nonsensical bullshit" from a western perspective, the overcoming of such conceptions, the chasing after a vice too good to be true, might lead to a fast-track to enlightenment. This is unfortunate. From Theravada to Vajrayana the only important thing is the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path, is this absolutely true? It's a shame for Journey and I both if so.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Mahayana attempts to use service to others and compassion as a skillful means to shed the ego. Compassion isn't exactly what we think of in the west as the effacing charity.

    Vajrayana uses other skillful means (I imagine) to shed ego such as realizing defilement as buddha nature.

    Fundamental Yanna (my whole presentation is from a tibetan perspective by the way.... i won't use 'hinayana' because it is seen as inflamatory like ****
    also uses its own skillful means to free from the ego such as realizing suffering and impermanence. Realizing the 8 fold path.

    All a happy family of the 84000 skillful means. (all the 8 fold path in a sense and all the 4 dharma seals)
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Honestly, seeking a fast track to enlightenment just sounds like a lot of grasping/clinging to me (I mean clinging, not clinging *to* me, that would be silly, and neither of us would achieve enlightenment, would we?)

    :)
  • edited November 2010
    valois wrote: »
    I believe I've heard those same claims, that Vajrayana is the best option if you want to reach enlightenment in this lifetime, it's a pity I can't remember where. I suppose one ought to be a bit more circumspect towards audacious claims like these on second thought, but until this moment I've been stumbling around Vajrayana struggling to understand even exactly what tantra is and a bit subconsciously trying to dismiss some common conceptions that Vajrayana Buddhism is full of a bunch of "nonsensical bullshit" from a western perspective, the overcoming of such conceptions, the chasing after a vice too good to be true, might lead to a fast-track to enlightenment. This is unfortunate. From Theravada to Vajrayana the only important thing is the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path, is this absolutely true? It's a shame for Journey and I both if so.

    There is a big difference between saying that Vajrayana makes the "loss of ego easy" and saying that the methods of Buddhist tantra offer a quick but dangerous path to realization.
    Tantra means continuity, the idea is based upon the support of the teacher and the realized community being passing the teachings and methods from one person to another based upon direct experience. The methods of tantra are direct and strong means of confronting our deluded view of ourselves and the world. Tantra works to transform the way we interact with the world, other beings, and how we view our selves.
    Vajrayana Buddhism is full of a diverse range of methods for dealing with our negative emotions and transforming them into wisdom and compassion. Its easy for people to look at Vajrayana from the outside and say "I dont get it, this is bullshit." and this is a problem that will always plague a tradition that is in large part esoteric.
    As a Vajrayana practitioner I am ok with that, its not for everybody.
  • edited November 2010
    Mountains wrote: »
    Honestly, seeking a fast track to enlightenment just sounds like a lot of grasping/clinging to me (I mean clinging, not clinging *to* me, that would be silly, and neither of us would achieve enlightenment, would we?)

    :)
    The Vajrayana claim of being a "fast track" is about the methods that are based upon the Bodhisattvayana of the Mahayana tradition. A basic Mahayana idea is that it takes "three eons" to reach Buddhahood. Vajrayana offers a "fast track" compared to three eons, not something like "you will be enlightened next week for three easy payments of $19.95!"
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Personal effort will be the deciding factor, I'm sure. :)
  • edited November 2010
    Cloud wrote: »
    Personal effort will be the deciding factor, I'm sure. :)
    Absolutely.
  • edited November 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    Vajrayana buddhism really interests me. How do I get started?

    There's a lot of sutra practices you could do, for example, the six perfections. I believe you can recite prayers like Tara or Avalokiteshvara, without a transmission from a teacher. But it's best to check with your closest dharma center.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited November 2010
    My sister and I have been practicing Tibetan Buddhism for over 10 years (she for over 15). Intense practice can increase neurosis ... we've both heard that from different teachers, and we've both seen it. This seems to be the reason attributed to the importance of a nearby teacher ... the moderating effect against the onset of heightened neurosis.

    However, both my sister and I have found that one does not have to practice with that kind of intensity in order to gain in understanding and in order to start changing. All paths of Buddhism will lead to the final goal when practiced the way they are taught.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited November 2010
    This is not true at all.
    The Buddha had several different teachers who presented him with a multitude of methods that he explored and perfected before Buddhahood.
    This is a common misrepresentation of the Buddha's life and experience.
    The only part of the Buddha's experience and realization that he did without guidance was when he revealed and started teaching his own semi-unique set of teachings.
    He began certain practices with teachers and with austerities, and seeing these practices were without merit repudiated them.
    "But the thought occurred to me, 'This Dhamma leads not to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to Awakening, nor to Unbinding (nibbana), but only to reappearance in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.' So, dissatisfied with that Dhamma, I left."
    MN 36
    "I thought: 'Whatever priests or contemplatives in the past have felt painful, racking, piercing feelings due to their striving, this is the utmost. None have been greater than this. Whatever priests or contemplatives in the future will feel painful, racking, piercing feelings due to their striving, this is the utmost. None will be greater than this. Whatever priests or contemplatives in the present are feeling painful, racking, piercing feelings due to their striving, this is the utmost. None is greater than this. But with this racking practice of austerities I haven't attained any superior human state, any distinction in knowledge or vision worthy of the noble ones. Could there be another path to Awakening?'"
    MN 36
    His understanding is his own:
    "The world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. From the world, the Tathagata is disjoined. The origination of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The origination of the world has, by the Tathagata, been abandoned. The cessation of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The cessation of the world has, by the Tathagata, been realized. The path leading to the cessation of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The path leading to the cessation of the world has, by the Tathagata, been developed."
    Iti 112
    His understanding was his teacher:
    "It would be for the sake of perfecting an unperfected aggregate of knowledge and vision of release that I would dwell in dependence on another priest or contemplative, honoring and respecting him. However, in this world with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, in this generation with its priests and contemplatives, its royalty and common-folk, I do not see another priest or contemplative more consummate in knowledge and vision of release than I, on whom I could dwell in dependence, honoring and respecting him.
    "What if I were to dwell in dependence on this very Dhamma to which I have fully awakened, honoring and respecting it?"
    Then, having known with his own awareness the line of thinking in the Blessed One's awareness — just as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm — Brahma Sahampati disappeared from the Brahma-world and reappeared in front of the Blessed One. Arranging his upper robe over one shoulder, he saluted the Blessed One with his hands before his heart and said to him: "So it is, Blessed One! So it is, One-Well-Gone! Those who were arahants, Rightly Self-awakened Ones in the past — they, too, dwelled in dependence on the very Dhamma itself, honoring and respecting it. Those who will be arahants, Rightly Self-awakened Ones in the future — they, too, will dwell in dependence on the very Dhamma itself, honoring and respecting it. And let the Blessed One, who is at present the arahant, the Rightly Self-awakened One, dwell in dependence on the very Dhamma itself, honoring and respecting it."
    SN 6.2
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/buddha.html
    I am not trying to be contentious, for myself I find the Buddha's teaching rather unique. Sure there were influences in his life but his realization was his own and not dependent on another. The Buddha depended upon the Dhamma, doing likewise would only make sense to me. This is my understanding, as limited as that is.
    With Metta,
    Todd
  • edited November 2010
    Ultimately he understood it himself, but he did get help from others.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    It's just a matter of perspective, and there are many valid perspectives from which to make a statement. Each statement is true... from that perspective. ;) In a way the Buddha's path to enlightenment was not dependent upon the teachers he studied under, in that he thoroughly vetted the truth through his own introspection and experiences, not holding onto what others professed to him unless factual after full discernment. Also in a way everything he was and did was in perfect interdependence with all other beings and so in terms of causality there's no avoiding shared inception of progress.

    It's all just, that. There's a lot of fuel we can add onto the fire and argue forever, but it all burns true.
  • edited November 2010
    And it's all irrelevant. Ultimately what he perfected was not taught to him by others. It doesn't matter if he had help to get there or not, what matters is that he got there and we have his teachings.
  • HumbleHumble Explorer
    edited November 2010
    FoibleFull wrote: »
    My sister and I have been practicing Tibetan Buddhism for over 10 years (she for over 15). Intense practice can increase neurosis ... we've both heard that from different teachers, and we've both seen it. This seems to be the reason attributed to the importance of a nearby teacher ... the moderating effect against the onset of heightened neurosis.

    However, both my sister and I have found that one does not have to practice with that kind of intensity in order to gain in understanding and in order to start changing. All paths of Buddhism will lead to the final goal when practiced the way they are taught.

    I know exactly what you mean about the neurosis. There was a period for me after doing 3-5 hours a day of meditation for months that I began to have strange emotional changes. For example driving down the street and crying for no particular reason or sudden bouts of deep depression ( as well as other emotions). A teacher and a community is very important for serious contemplatives.
  • edited November 2010
    I thought that "loss of ego" was far from easy; the methods employed can be quite harsh. Biographies of Tibetan holy ones can be instructive (Milarepa and others).

    There are other ways to reach enlightenment besides exercises in "loss of ego". A regular meditation practice, with dedication and patience (and a little luck or perhaps good karma from a past lifetime) can succeed in raising the Kundalini, the energy of enlightenment. (I get this from Gopi Krishna's "Living With Kundalini"). But it's not easy. Most things worth achieving take concentrated effort, dedication, and patience.

    Universities with Tibetan Buddhism departments also offer distance learning, I just thought I'd mention that.

    Maybe your nearest dharma center offers weekend workshops that would make the drive more feasible? Just brainstorming, here....
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited November 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    And it's all irrelevant. Ultimately what he perfected was not taught to him by others. It doesn't matter if he had help to get there or not, what matters is that he got there and we have his teachings.
    For me it's relevant in that your thinking and your path will proceed from whatever ground you decide to begin your path from. If you have a fundamental belief that the Buddha learned and perfected his teachings under gurus, then you might quite naturally believe you should as well. If you believe that the Buddha taught being a bodisattva was the correct path then you would follow that idea and practice accordingly. Likewise if you believe that aharantship was your ideal, then naturally your path would again be quite different. All things being empty, all this banter is quite irrelevant if you think about it. Each path is individual.
    With Metta,
    Todd
  • edited November 2010
    From what I've learnt from my teacher, there is nothing called the best path/tradition. But the important is, the path we find best for ourself. Everyone have different preference and capasity. Maybe some of us find Theravada tradition is the best, others found in Zen or Vajrayana.

    Vajrayana could be the fastest way to bring enlightenment in this very life (in this case if we could practice wholeheartedly like Milarepa), BUT also could be the quickest way bring we to lower realm.

    And yes, we must at least have a teacher or maybe more than one.

    Topic about teacher (guru) in Vajrayana is quite long explanation and need openness to learn about it.
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