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Does quality exist?
ravkes
Veteran
Is anything 'good' or 'bad'..? Can we trust any definition (concept, opinion, belief) of what life is other than what the reality of it is? It seems here that suffering occurs when not aligned with reality..
Ex 1: Physical Pain: There is pain.. but how is this 'good' or 'bad'. Apparently the body heals automatically and 'life' scrambles away from pain, this is just what happens. It's neither good nor bad. One can see it in insects and animals if you try to harm them. Life apparently wants to live.
Ex 2: General Daily Life: If you have a 'crappy' job or a 'boring' job you suffer. But the job itself isn't crappy, it's just your perception of it's quality.. which is a fantasy because the job is just the job. Once the reality is seen, it's easier to work.. to study.. to be more open minded.. to approach different fields of study without bias but with an eagerness to learn and express through whatever is learned.
I believe the answer to this question, or rather the intuitive realization of what actually is, holds much practical applicability into the cessation of suffering.
What do you think?
Ex 1: Physical Pain: There is pain.. but how is this 'good' or 'bad'. Apparently the body heals automatically and 'life' scrambles away from pain, this is just what happens. It's neither good nor bad. One can see it in insects and animals if you try to harm them. Life apparently wants to live.
Ex 2: General Daily Life: If you have a 'crappy' job or a 'boring' job you suffer. But the job itself isn't crappy, it's just your perception of it's quality.. which is a fantasy because the job is just the job. Once the reality is seen, it's easier to work.. to study.. to be more open minded.. to approach different fields of study without bias but with an eagerness to learn and express through whatever is learned.
I believe the answer to this question, or rather the intuitive realization of what actually is, holds much practical applicability into the cessation of suffering.
What do you think?
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Comments
As to suffering, the cause is much as you say. The mind in its delusion thinks one way, reality is another, and the discordance results in dukkha.
(Example: We desire to never lose our jobs, but this is not something we have much control over. This desire becomes an attachment; we cling to the desire in futility. Should we lose the job we will experience a kind of pain, rather than internal acceptance with ease/equanimity. Should we not lose the job... well, we're still clinging to the desire, and so fear is the accompanying feeling that we drag along with us through life.) At least for this word, our abstraction is "open", without limitations or solidity to bind the mind.
In your example of physical pain, it would not be considered good or bad; pain is a sensation. It is our reaction that is skillful or unskillful, such as if we react in anger and harm another or we mire ourselves in self-pity and do not seek proper aid.
Wait what was the question again?
Oh yeah, reality can be represented in concepts but these concepts will always fall short compared to direct experience. We call the way things really work the "Dharma", or "suchness", or "reality", or the "Tao" or... well, you get the picture. The word is irrelevant, it is or should be understood that it's a reference to the true nature of all phenomena (whatever that is). When we begin getting into more complicated thoughts that actually delineate some specifics of the functions of the Dharma (such as Karma and Dependent Origination), we come to a place where to know the truth we must put forth our own effort in study and meditation. Sooo, I guess to answer the question... no, we can't just express reality in words and definitions. The very method of the path is the cultivation of wisdom (and compassion) to provide a solid foundation for living skillfully and freely.
I can understand why he repudiates it, probably because there are seemingly two versions of reality.. conventional (relative) and absolute reality..
The whole form is emptiness, emptiness is form type thing.
Perhaps one should act from this emptiness and play with the form, instead of identifying with a form.
Really no way to explain this.
Just something to be experienced.
Thanks!
You can´t say: "pain is bad"
You can say: "pain is bad to develop no pain" ...this is a bad sentence but u get the point
With Metta,
Todd
With Metta,
Todd
in this field, quality is defined in such way: Quality defines to what extend customer expectation and product result match.
I assume that this could be seen to a bigger extend than customer and product
I think this is an issue of great relevance to Dharma. If all things are empty, and moreover, if there are no things, then where do qualities come from?
I think the answer (as with many answers) is from arising/emergence and we can see it start in the third mark of existence, Dukka.
The first value is the value of existence.
I am still not clear how it all fits together at this most basic of levels.
As a related asside, you might think of anataman as being expressible as the statement "there are no qualities only relations". This is true at the basic level and the arisen level of experience; your negative attitude to something is a relation about you and that thing, there is nothing outside of this relation.
Regarding the unwholesome/wholesome couplet, I tend to think of these as being arisen qualities to do with the reaslisation of dukka and sukka.
Unwholesome actions tend to increase dukka, that is all they are. Wholseome actions tend to increase sukka. But there might be some circularity in my explanation here, I am unsure.
namaste
Do most Buddhists believe this? Are you to say that if you are witnessing torture, you shouldn't help the victim in mind; rather it is wiser to tell them to realize their excruciating pain is just a sensation and they shouldn't be angry.
Biology seems to disagree.
Sorry then for the misunderstanding.
Do you mean to say that after enough practice in meditation, pain is no longer unpleasant? That's incredible.
This is very persuasive for me to begin meditating more, thank you.
And I meant to say "Sorry then for the misunderstanding." without a question mark. Sorry if it sounded defensive
Qualities do exist - unendingly - one arising into the other - that is the simplicity. Life as healthy, blissful and peaceful are misnomers unless they are viewed as qualities giving rise to disease, anguish and turmoil which in turn give rise to health, bliss and peace - no quality being permanent - just being what it is, when it is.
Once reality is seen the simplicity is realizing that the complexity of reality is beyond understanding - realizing and understanding are slippery in and of themselves.....
The spiritual journey is one of continuous learning and purification. When you know this, you become humble. There is a famous Tibetan saying: “Do not mistake understanding for realization, and do not mistake realization for liberation.” And Milarepa said: “Do not entertain hopes for realization, but practice all your life.”
Sogyal Rinpoche
Oogway: Ah, Shifu. There is just news. There is no good or bad.
Shifu: Master, your vision. Your vision was right! Tai-Lung has broken out of prison! He's on his way!
[pause]
Oogway: That IS bad news.
(Kung Fu Panda)
I'm sorry, I just had to post this.
There are no things,
Only Connections.
Interconnected,
Combined,
As one.
Them
You,
Me,
we,
1,
0
My personal opinion based on Dharma lessons and reading is that the notion of non-duality is to control your own judgement and reaction toward others rather than just accepting everything and commit everything.
Can't understand these concepts without how to ground ourselves within the mundane world first.