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Dukkha is Permanent.

edited November 2010 in Buddhism Today
Dukkha is permanent. The source of dukkha in your life may not be the same next week as it was last week, but it's still here. The source of dukkha in your life may not be the same this week as it will next week, but dukkha will still be there. I know we are supposed to believe that nothing is permanent, and we are supposed to eliminate dukkha in our lives, but I strongly feel that dukkha is very permanent and will always be there to weigh us down no matter what we do to try and make it go away. Am I wrong? If so, tell me why I'm wrong.

Comments

  • ShiftPlusOneShiftPlusOne Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Why does it matter? Does it make any difference at all?

    Personally I'd say it's always there, but it doesn't have to weight us down... ever.
  • edited November 2010
    I guess it matters because it's said that nothing is permanent, but from experience, dukkha is.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited November 2010
    You make dukkha. You make samsara. You also make nibanna. Put it all down and let it rest in its own ground.
    With Metta,
    Todd
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    How all the sudden has this come to be the conclusion, that "dukkha is permanent"? If I was any more tired I'd think I had misread the post, or was hallucinating. ;) First of all, dukkha like everything else arises due only to conditions and "dukkha" isn't what changes because it's not a thing but an adjective applied to experience; we should remember from the Four Noble Truths that our craving, or desires that are in conflict with reality, are the cause of each arising of dukkha in our lives and clearly we have the Third Noble Truth of "Nirvana" [Cessation] and Fourth Noble Truth of the "Noble Eightfold Path" to show us the way of cutting off these discordant cravings (Tanha) at their root which is ignorance (Avijja).

    It is only through not fully penetrating the Four Noble Truths that we remain bound in this vicious cycle; if we fail to understand that the 4NT are the real teachings that will free us and have gone off into "fancy" teachings we intellectualized as having greater value, then we must re-evaluate.

    Yeesh. Talk about a statement that goes back to the very basics of what we should learn! :)

    Without an initial right view and confidence in the Four Noble Truths we have not begun to walk the path of liberation, and so will indeed not escape dukkha until we can put forth the effort to do so.

    Namaste
  • edited November 2010
    Right, but if you were to ask me when was the last time I didn't have dukkha, I would not be able to tell you.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    And that's the First Noble Truth. It doesn't help to get hung up on it, depressed or to give up on cultivating the path that is taught for this very purpose.

    This is a problem for all of us, and it becomes even more apparent after years of practice when everything is dukkha, dukkha, dukkha. Fortunately nothing is ever as negative as it sounds, for when the mind shows such great despondency in recognition of the pervasiveness of dukkha, it is usually a sign that one is close to connecting the dots; close to the key insight where it will see dukkha as it arises within the mind.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited November 2010
    SteadyBlue wrote: »
    Right, but if you were to ask me when was the last time I didn't have dukkha, I would not be able to tell you.
    Meditate, and be mindful and sit with your emotions as they arise. What is this thing you call dukkha? From whence does it arise? Where does it go? What is its nature? Your identification with "events" is your dukkha.
    "Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit."
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.101.than.html
    With Metta,
    Todd
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2010
    SteadyBlue wrote: »
    Right, but if you were to ask me when was the last time I didn't have dukkha, I would not be able to tell you.

    Then that's your dukkha, but it's not ours....

    You might have a problem with dukkha.
    All I can say, is that I don't.
    because I see that if I do - that's my perception.
    Life is what it is, because it is what it is.
    Dukkha is wishing it wasn't.

    Put it this way:

    Dukkha is like manure.
    It can either anger and frustrate you when you step in it, or serve you marvellously when you put it on the roses.

    I have some spectacularly prize-winning blooms, here....
  • edited November 2010
    SteadyBlue wrote: »
    Dukkha is permanent. The source of dukkha in your life may not be the same next week as it was last week, but it's still here. The source of dukkha in your life may not be the same this week as it will next week, but dukkha will still be there. I know we are supposed to believe that nothing is permanent, and we are supposed to eliminate dukkha in our lives, but I strongly feel that dukkha is very permanent and will always be there to weigh us down no matter what we do to try and make it go away. Am I wrong? If so, tell me why I'm wrong.

    Suffering is a part of life but it too is impermanent. Physical pain rarely lasts forever. Our negative feelings fade etc. Suffering is also impermanent because we die. Once we die, suffering ends. Some physical suffering is sometimes difficult to prevent or cure, however, Buddhism teaches us that much mental suffering can be prevented or cured. Buddhism talks about equanimity, that is, whatever, the external conditions you experience whether it be good or bad, you mind is unaffected, you remain at calm and at peace. Also, we can avoid much unnecessary suffering. The Buddhist monks and nuns suffer less than the lay people, because they have detached themselves from the worldly life and hence, whatever happens in the worldly life does not affect them. It is important to recall, that much suffering in our lives can be prevented and treated. Much of our suffering is caused by ourselves, for example, we own many possessions and hence, we get attached to them, and once something bad happens to the possessions, we suffer. As for suffering weighing us down, I disagree. Some suffering can lift us up. Nine Years ago, I suffered from major depression. It was only because I suffered that I was able to become wiser and find the way to happiness. My life is now great. Had I not suffered, my life may not be as good. Also, situations labelled as suffering are sometimes blessings in disguise. A relationship break up opens the doors to other relationships than maybe even better. Some suffering is bad, but some are good and even necessary. I am not advising people to suffer, but it is important to know, that suffering can sometimes help us.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Dukkha is just thinking... It arises but you can't find the moment it arises. You can't find the moment it abides. You can't find the moment it ceases...

    Dukkha is illusory. We just have to let go of grasping and let our feelings be!

    Then dukkha is just sensitivity and awareness...
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited November 2010
    OK, I'll try this once again. I hope the problems I had with getting the posts to show up this morning don't mean I suddenly get 3 or 4 duplicate posts on here. If so, apologies.

    You're wrong. By your own description, Dukkha is not permanent, it's unavoidable. It remains unavoidable, as long as desires remain. And desires are inexhaustable.

    You say this doesn't make much of a difference? It's the difference between hope and depair.

    "Sentient beings are without number, I vow to save them all."
    "Desires are inexhaustable, I vow to end them all."
    "The gates of liberation are infinite, I vow to enter them all."
    "The Dharma is unsurpassable, I vow to attain it."
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I think if you really do believe it is permanent, then you will experience it as such.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    SteadyBlue wrote: »
    Dukkha is permanent. The source of dukkha in your life may not be the same next week as it was last week, but it's still here. The source of dukkha in your life may not be the same this week as it will next week, but dukkha will still be there. I know we are supposed to believe that nothing is permanent, and we are supposed to eliminate dukkha in our lives, but I strongly feel that dukkha is very permanent and will always be there to weigh us down no matter what we do to try and make it go away. Am I wrong? If so, tell me why I'm wrong.

    Basically what you are saying here is that the 3rd noble truth is simply not true and the Buddha was an idiot. ;)
  • edited November 2010
    It would seem that the Buddha and the countless masters who have extinguished the experience of dukkha for themselves through the years have more experience and nuanced insights than our new friend Steadyblue.
    Its not a great idea to throw in the towel halfway through the first round.
  • edited November 2010
    You're free to believe that, but you're going against what the buddha taught.
  • edited November 2010
    I didn't mean it like that. I've been having a really hard time lately and I came here to vent, when this isn't the right place, and it was out of line. Sorry.
  • edited November 2010
    Dukkha is ..... a dry day.
    Sometimes it rains..

    Duhkka is reoccuring..but it's a carving of the block.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    TheFound wrote: »

    Dukkha is ..... a dry day.
    Sometimes it rains..

    Now HERE'S one I get!

    Lovely.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Really? Well crap, I don't.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Dukkha is the dreary days we trod through: Dry and undesirable
    Sometimes a cloud of joy and wonder awakes us awhile to the true day: delicious with dews

    GREAT poetry, TheFound!
  • edited November 2010
    A Cloud should ask a star in the sky, "How much do you suffer?"
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    TheFound wrote: »
    A Cloud should ask a star in the sky, "How much do you suffer?"
    Nope, I'm not clever enough to get it. Sorry. :)
  • edited November 2010
    Cloud..I didnt get it either for a long time. In some cases I reread the same cryptic ...stupid sounding words, over and over.. and they kept evolving into different meanings..finally i settled and it was true
  • edited November 2010
    TheFound wrote: »
    Cloud..I didnt get it either for a long time. In some cases I reread the same cryptic ...stupid sounding words, over and over.. and they kept evolving into different meanings..finally i settled and it was true

    I still don't get these things. In fact they greatly confuse me. :( I think I may get them but I never know.
  • edited November 2010
    what is your question, and i'm not asking.

    :D:D some people have to take pills after i'm done with them..
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Maybe you take pills before you start with people, but to each his own... :)
  • edited November 2010
    TheFound wrote: »
    what is your question, and i'm not asking.

    :D:D some people have to take pills after i'm done with them..

    all I see is non-duality. I'm not 100% if that's what i'm supposed to be seeing or not. :/
  • edited November 2010
    Why don't I have a beard?
  • edited November 2010
    TheFound wrote: »
    Why don't I have a beard?

    the same reason that everything else is and isn't?
  • robotrobot Veteran
    edited November 2010
    because you're a girl?
  • edited November 2010
    ...you've never heard of this Koan style before?

    "WHY DONT I HAVE A BEARD"

    the point is.. you can't know unless you directly experience ME or...come in contact with me..

    this truth exists I don't have a beard right now and there are reasons for it..but no random buddhist book or spiritual teacher can tell you why i don't have a beard...some scripture may say why I'm "likely to not have a beard" or why I should have a beard....etc.. but you have to grasp these things by the balls and get to know their brothers sisters and cousins..:lol:

    the term they use is... Grasp Directly.. i think
  • edited November 2010
    TheFound wrote: »
    ...you've never heard of this Koan style before?

    "WHY DONT I HAVE A BEARD"

    the point is.. you can't know unless you directly experience ME or...come in contact with me..

    this truth exists I don't have a beard right now and there are reasons for it..but no random buddhist book or spiritual teacher can tell you why i don't have a beard...some scripture may say why I'm "likely to not have a beard" or why I should have a beard....etc.. but you have to grasp these things by the balls and get to know their brothers sisters and cousins..:lol:

    the term they use is... Grasp Directly.. i think

    :D i'm very very new. My buddhist experience consists of a ton of study on the computer over the past i'm not sure how long proly like 6 weeks and meditation and posting on this forum. I've been big time into spirituality for a couple/few years, but buddhism is a very new thing for me. I'm still confused, but i'm progressing towards understanding.
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I think perhaps the OP was referring to one of the 3 marks of existence:

    "sabbe sankhara dukkha"
    "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory"

    But missed the inference of the other two:
    "sabbe sankhara dukkha"
    "All conditioned things are impermanent"

    and,
    "sabbe dhamma anatta
    All things are without self or eternal essence
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