compatibility of psychotherapy and Buddhism

mike1127

Some people say that psychotherapy is inherently in conflict with Buddhism, since psychotherapy works with the self, while Buddhism says nothing is self. (By the way I find the phrase "nothing is self" better than "there is no self.")

I don't think a full understanding of psychotherapy conflicts with a full understanding of Buddhism.

Here's an analogy. A baby learns to crawl before it can walk. Human development proceeds in stages. When a baby has a very good experience of crawling (when conditions for the development of crawling are ideal and lead to skillful crawling) then that is a strong foundation for walking. On the other hand, when a baby has some impairment in crawling, they may eventually learn to walk, but the walking will be compromised.

In my view, having a "healthy sense of self" is a first stage of development, and "insight into nothing is self" is the next stage.

What is a healthy sense of self? Well, a person has a realistic appreciation of both their capabilities and weaknesses. They are not burdened by shame. They are not afraid of who they are. They know their emotions. They can defend themselves against people who try to intrude on their boundaries.

A healthy sense of self is a strong foundation for the next step, realization of "nothing is self."

If a person never develops a healthy sense of self, then I believe they cannot have a genuine realization of "nothing is self." Instead, a high degree of self-repression will be mixed into their meditation experience.

Someone might say, "Nothing about a person's sense of self matters once they see through the illusion." When I closely examine that sentence, it makes no sense. The neural circuits that implement a person's sense of self don't go away when you have realization of "nothing is self." They still operate. And if their operation compromises the whole system, then that compromise remains even after long years of meditation. On the other hand, if their operation is skillful, then they continue to contribute to skillful action.

Mike

Theswingisyellow

mike1127 wrote: »

Some people say that psychotherapy is inherently in conflict with Buddhism, since psychotherapy works with the self, while Buddhism says nothing is self. (By the way I find the phrase "nothing is self" better than "there is no self.")

I don't think a full understanding of psychotherapy conflicts with a full understanding of Buddhism.

Here's an analogy. A baby learns to crawl before it can walk. Human development proceeds in stages. When a baby has a very good experience of crawling (when conditions for the development of crawling are ideal and lead to skillful crawling) then that is a strong foundation for walking. On the other hand, when a baby has some impairment in crawling, they may eventually learn to walk, but the walking will be compromised.

In my view, having a "healthy sense of self" is a first stage of development, and "insight into nothing is self" is the next stage.

What is a healthy sense of self? Well, a person has a realistic appreciation of both their capabilities and weaknesses. They are not burdened by shame. They are not afraid of who they are. They know their emotions. They can defend themselves against people who try to intrude on their boundaries.

A healthy sense of self is a strong foundation for the next step, realization of "nothing is self."

If a person never develops a healthy sense of self, then I believe they cannot have a genuine realization of "nothing is self." Instead, a high degree of self-repression will be mixed into their meditation experience.

Someone might say, "Nothing about a person's sense of self matters once they see through the illusion." When I closely examine that sentence, it makes no sense. The neural circuits that implement a person's sense of self don't go away when you have realization of "nothing is self." They still operate. And if their operation compromises the whole system, then that compromise remains even after long years of meditation. On the other hand, if their operation is skillful, then they continue to contribute to skillful action.

Mike

I believe that you must have a healthy sense of self and identity, its the ego-clinging that is the problem. One needs to respect oneself and have a clear sense of self-identity. You can have a strong, stable, relative sense of self and still recognize it as fundamentally empty. It is your ego grasping, your inflated ego, that which holds itself as the center of reality that is the problem. If psychotherapy maintains that there is an inherent self, then I guess that could be a problem. For me personally my understanding of my emotional difficuties (depression for me) stemmed from my focus on myself and my identification with my feelings. If I were to maintain this confabulated sense of who I was, I don't know if I could have gotten past, or more appropriately faced and sat down with my depression. I was able to do this, knowing that this part I so intimately identified with was inherently empty, as were my conceptions of myself. A question for you: psychotherapy can identify a problem and where it may stem from but does have an answer, a way to effectively deal with your issue?
With Metta,
Todd

karmadorje

People who want to engage in psychotherapy should have their heads examined!

compassionate_warrior

Mike, I'm not sure why, but your post is over my head. I come at the question from a different angle. Is psychotherapy compatible with Buddhism? Are you familiar with "Buddhist psychology"? I've known a number of psychologists and psychotherapists who incorporate Buddhist principles into their practice. I consider Buddhism itself to be a form of psychology, science of the mind, methodology for liberation from neuroses. But...I'm not a psychologist. It sounds like you have a background in psychology. So we might be talking on completely different levels.