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Abuse of Power in Spiritual Settings & Elsewhere

DakiniDakini Veteran
edited December 2010 in Buddhism Today
This thread was set up in part to answer questions arising on other threads, to consolidate all relevant concerns in one location.

The phenomenon of abuse of power by authority figures is not confined to secular settings (universities, employment settings), nor to Western churches. Western dharma students have complained of sexual harrassment and coercion to engage in sexual activity on the part of their revered teachers, and of aggressive fundraising/demands for large donations from sangha members. Here I aim to open this problem to discussion and analysis, look at legal ramifications, and look at related issues that may come up in sanghas and one-on-one student-teacher relationships.

*** Is this problem more common in Vajrayana than in other schools of Buddhism? Why, or why not?

***What factors contribute to creating this problem? Can we arrive at an understanding of the underlying causes? (Cultural, psychological, misunderstandings of what is appropriate behavior, etc.)

***Can we explore proposals for some practical solutions?

One high official in the Kagyu order, Shamar Rinpoche, has adopted the measure of eliminating Vajrayana practices from the curriculum in his Bodhi Path centers. Is this what it will take to address the problem, or is there still a role for Vajrayana in the West?
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Comments

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    To kick off the discussion, I'm going to answer questions posed by Jeffrey, on the "Criticisms of Buddhism" thread, pg 2.

    "What do you think of college professors sleeping with their students? Women are adults, they can close their legs, right?"

    "You shouldn't take leave of your senses for just for a guru."

    "It's typical male behavior to pursue females. [...] Everyone must one day get disillusioned with the angelic nature of the opposite sex."

    Jeffrey, Jeffrey; monks and lamas are not typical males. Why? Because many of them are celibate. Some of those who are not, are married. All lamas, as clergy, are representatives of a supreme spiritual authority, and wear the robes of their station as such. They all take vows to not engage in sexual misconduct.

    RE: college professors and students, I've covered this elsewhere, but I can add clarification. Most universities have a policy against professors sleeping with students enrolled in their courses. This is because the prof is in a power position over the student, insofar as he grades the student's work and may be in a position to recommend the student to employers. This is not the case with students not enrolled in the professor's classes. So the way the policy plays out if both parties are mindful of the regulations and of the inherent risks (if a relationship develops but goes sour, the student can file a harrassment complaint against the prof, so he is vulnerable as well), the student waits until she/he completes the prof's course if a relationship is mutually desired, and then they can pursue a liaison without fear of sanction.

    This is not a question of whether or not sex is good or bad; it's a matter of the abuse of power over vulnerable parties.

    Professors can weild a lot of power over students; they can threaten a student with low grades if she/he doesn't comply with his demands, or he can refuse to write a letter of recommendation to employers upon student's graduation, and thereby ruin student's chance to launch a career in her/his field, if the prof has a national or international reputation in the field. It happens. Or used to. Hopefully not so much anymore.

    RE: students are adults, etc.--See comment on wielding power, making threats. Also see comment #57 in "problems in Buddhism" thread,by Ficus Religiosa, for a nutshell summary of the psychological and family of origin issues that affect an individual's ability to stand up to manipulations and threats. Those who have a family history of abuse don't have the normal psychological defenses the rest of us do. I didn't know about this when i began studying the "lama abuse" issue. I've learned by talking to victims and reading material by others who have studied this problem. I'm not going to judge people who have been through sometimes horrific childhood experiences that I can't possibly imagine. I think that as human beings, not to mention as Buddhists, we should be compassionate towards those who have suffered abuse and injustice, and put ourselves in their shoes to try to understand their view of events.

    RE: taking leave of senses for guru: see post #67 under "Problems in Buddhism" about how some gurus set up the situation. If the student is young and very devoted (someone on another site mentioned "unhealthy levels of devotion" --good point), and is coming from an abusive home situation/family of origin, circumstances come together to create a dangerous situation. I agree that students should be aware of the guidelines for a proper guru-student relationshp, and should be prepared to stand up to a guru who makes inappropriate demands. There's been some discussion of that on the "Teacher-Student Relationship" thread, which has been helpful. This info should be provided to all students of the dharma. I'm all for taking preventive measures.

    You mentioned rape. It happens (Sogyal, and others according to reports).

    It's not about "disillusionment in the angelic nature of the opposite sex" (see opening remarks). We're talking about authority figures, including clergy, who abuse their position. We expect religious authorities to keep to a higher moral standard. This is not unreasonable.
  • edited November 2010
    Brief summary of what we've come up with so far on the "Teacher-Student Relationship" thread: teachers are not supposed to demand an "offering" of the student's body, or any sexual contact. Teachers, especially monks, are not supposed to come on to students in any way. It's inappropriate and unprofessional, IMO, meaning that there are certain standards of behavior we expect from religious leaders.
  • edited November 2010
    Sex of any kind for a Monastic is Pārājika

    This term, according to the Parivāra, derives from a verb meaning to lose or be defeated. A bhikkhu who commits any of the four following offenses has surrendered to his own mental defilements to such an extent that he defeats the purpose of his having become a bhikkhu in the first place. The irrevocable nature of this defeat is illustrated in the Vibhaṅga with a number of similes: "as a man with his head cut off... as a withered leaf freed from its stem... as a flat stone that has been broken in half cannot be put together again... as a palmyra tree cut off at the crown is incapable of further growth." A bhikkhu who commits any of these offenses severs himself irrevocably from the life of the Saṅgha and is no longer considered a bhikkhu.

    1. Should any bhikkhu — participating in the training and livelihood of the bhikkhus, without having renounced the training, without having declared his weakness — engage in sexual intercourse, even with a female animal, he is defeated and no longer in affiliation.

    As we noted in Chapter One, the first formulation of this rule followed on Ven. Sudinna's having had sex with one of his former wives. His motives, by worldly standards, were relatively noble: He was complying with his parents' desire that he provide them with an heir. However, in the incident leading to the second formulation of this rule — in which the Buddha added the phrase "even with a female animal" — the instigator's motives were considerably less so.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc1/bmc1.ch04.html
  • edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »
    *** Is this problem more common in Vajrayana than in other schools of Buddhism? Why, or why not?

    One high official in the Kagyu order, Shamar Rinpoche, has adopted the measure of eliminating Vajrayana practices from the curriculum in his Bodhi Path centers. Is this what it will take to address the problem, or is there still a role for Vajrayana in the West?

    The problem is by no means more common in Vajrayana. It has been a major blemish on the Zen tradition as well.

    Eliminating the Vajrayana curriculum from his centers (if thats what is really happening) will only further marginalize his group and stop the transmission of his lineage in its tracks.
    I honestly doubt he is going to do this.
    And yet again, you are linking Vajrayana and sexual misconduct on an institutional level.
    This is simply not the case. Vajrayana practice is not the key factor. The factor is individuals in a position of power taking advantage of it. By taking advantage of their position if they are Vajrayana lama's they are seriously tarnishing their reputations as Vajrayana practitioners.
    Its not the other way around. Vajrayana is not the culprit, individuals are.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Sex of any kind for a Monastic is Pārājika

    This term, according to the Parivāra, derives from a verb meaning to lose or be defeated.

    Hi, Fruit Punch Wizard. Here's the thing; it seems that some lamas/monks aren't observing the rules, and no one is enforcing the rules, even in the monasteries. And what about the sexual misconduct vow for non-monastic lamas? Same deal.

    Good points, Shenpen Nangwa. This will help me clarify my questions on this subject. I don't think that sexual misconduct is institutionalized per se. But in view of the fact that some lamas are telling students that tantric sex practice with them will "further their practice" or will allow them to "experience non-duality", would it be fair to say, at least, that those teachers are deliberately misconstruing or misusing the advanced practices in order to molest women? And the women say that what occurs has nothing to do with tantric practice. I can't help but wonder if Vajrayana isn't more prone to misconduct because of this. It's hard not to link the misconduct with the school, if you see what I mean. But maybe if these teachers were with a non-tantric tradition, they'd still find an excuse. but there seems to be an awfully easy excuse/justification available and ready. I'm open to your comments on this.

    Shamar is coming at the question from a different angle. He feels that Westerners have misused the tantric practice, separating the sex part from the spiritual context around it, and just focusing on the one aspect. So he's decided--no more Vajrayana for Westerners. But if it's not necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater to solve the misconduct (or the other) problem, then how do we solve it? It's clear from Shamar's writing, BTW, that Ole Nydahl had a major influence on his and the 16th Karmapa's perception of Westerners. Big mistake, IMO, to take Nydahl and his wife as typical of the rest of us. see www.shamarpa.org, main pg., click on "Why Bodhi Path Centers are not Vajrayana". For the curriculum, see: www.shamarpa.org/index.php?id=112.
  • edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »
    Hi, Fruit Punch Wizard. Here's the thing; it seems that some lamas/monks aren't observing the rules, and no one is enforcing the rules, even in the monasteries. And what about the sexual misconduct vow for non-monastic lamas? Same deal.

    The point is I am critical of any monastic who do not follow the proscriptions, and you should be too.
    Would it be fair to say, at least, that those teachers are deliberately misconstruing or misusing the advanced practices in order to molest women?

    Yes, and Vajrayana Bhikkus are not the only ones who do this exploitative practice, and the action that must me taken is to disrobe them, and never allow them re-affiliation.
    It's hard not to link the misconduct with the school, if you see what I mean.

    Link it to the person who does it.
    How do we solve it?

    Disrobe them and be done with it.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I agree with you, FPW, but nobody is defrocking anybody. And some of these liaisons are being kept secret, some lamas insist on it, and threaten the students with all kinds of things if they break the secrecy. Personally, I don't know why the students maintain this secrecy after being exploited/abused; it's not like the lamas have their own secret police to track the students down. But one person I'm in touch with who has interviewed a number of women speaks of "pscyhological abuse", very heavy-handed intimidation tactics. It just isn't as simple as enforcing rules. And who will enforce the rules over a head of a school, like Sakya Trizin? He's the ultimate authority among the Sakya. If the rules were being enforced, the population of the monasteries would shrink significantly.
  • edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »
    I agree with you, FPW, but nobody is defrocking anybody.

    That's the problem. Take a stricter stance, and this silliness ends.
    And some of these liaisons are being kept secret, some lamas insist on it, and threaten the students with all kinds of things if they break the secrecy.

    That is the problem the Dalai Lama tired to solve, and said that if a Lama tries to do that, a student should be open and publicize it. I personally think a little transparency might end that.
    Personally, I don't know why the students maintain this secrecy after being exploited/abused; it's not like the lamas have their own secret police to track the students down.

    The teacher/student relationship can be exploited, but it rarely is.
    But one person I'm in touch with who has interviewed a number of women speaks of "pscyhological abuse", very heavy-handed intimidation tactics.

    Forbidden.
    It just isn't as simple as enforcing rules.

    Yes, it is. Rule enforcement is the key.
    And who will enforce the rules over a head of a school, like Sakya Trizin?

    Reading the Vinaya might get things started.
    He's the ultimate authority among the Sakya. If the rules were being enforced, the population of the monasteries would shrink significantly.

    That's the point.
  • edited November 2010
    Is this the new consolidated troll thread? What's the point of moving this here to bloviate anew if there is none of the evidence that has been requested in other threads?
  • edited November 2010
    I never hear any well founded claims, which is why I made things simple so the drama ends.

    Disrobe and be done with it.

    Asking for Dakini to prove her accusation doesn't happen. It's all merely gossip, so I made things clear.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Hey, Let people be people. Better for people to concentrate their energies together than to be spreading it pointlessly everywhere and distracting others from their business.

    Not, mind you, that I agree with this idea of people as "trolls" just mentioned. I admire earnestness and if it manifests some token of goodwill, I feel I need to suspend judgment awhile. I am still waiting. (However, I haven't seen any more "I'm B-a--c-k" s lately.)

    I am heartened by the fact that these allegations are no longer popping up everywhere. I found that really excessive and inconsiderate. This is really quite civilized, I think.
  • edited November 2010
    I don't know, I think accusing a whole sect of Buddhism for being responsible for exploitative sex practices is a serious claim.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Of course it is, but if those claiming such are unable to articulate their points gainfully, it then becomes the fault of people like me responding to these posts that "keep the hate alive," as it were.

    In the other less appropriate threads, many of us have countered the absurdity of claims such as "hardly any monk takes his vows seriously." We can now re-engage or ignore.
  • edited November 2010
    So perhaps, what I'm getting from you is what you are saying is to ignore this thread so the hate-mongering ends? "Like a Don't feed the Trolls" type suggestion?
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Yes, except for the name-calling.
  • edited November 2010
    "Don't feed the trolls" is an idiom. But I see what you mean :)
  • edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »

    . But in view of the fact that some lamas are telling students that tantric sex practice with them will "further their practice" or will allow them to "experience non-duality", would it be fair to say, at least, that those teachers are deliberately misconstruing or misusing the advanced practices in order to molest women? And the women say that what occurs has nothing to do with tantric practice. I can't help but wonder if Vajrayana isn't more prone to misconduct because of this. It's hard not to link the misconduct with the school, if you see what I mean.

    No. Simply because I dont think that lama's are doing this. It may have happened before but its nowhere near as prevalent as you keep implying. There have been cases of inappropriate sexual relationships between certain individuals and their students but the "it will further your practice" angle is nonsense.
    Its about power and attraction on both sides. Its easy to manipulate someone when you are in a position of power. One doesnt need absurd pick-up lines about spiritual practice.
    I think the women you are talking to are either vastly exaggerating or lying.
    Especially the ones who make accusations toward Sakya Trizin and Thrinley Norbu. One huge indicator that their accounts are BS is that they depict them as being childish and ignorant. Which they most certainly are not. If they wanted to do what they are being accused of they wouldnt have to go about it in the way that the account represent. Its laughable really.
    The only way someone could possibly forge the link between this type of sexual misconduct and Vajrayana is if they were actively looking for it or looking for a way to attack and damage the reputation of the lineage and specific teachers within it.
    The accounts you are referring to are unreliable and your experience and understanding of Vajrayana is juvenile at best.
  • edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »
    If the rules were being enforced, the population of the monasteries would shrink significantly.

    What?
    The rules are upheld in the monasteries. There is a reason that the largest monastic communities in the history of human civilization were and still are in Tibet. And its not because they were huge tantric sex nightclubs.
  • edited November 2010
    No. Simply because I dont think that lama's are doing this.

    I didn't think they were.
    It may have happened before but its nowhere near as prevalent as you keep implying.

    I hope this is addressed to Dakini. I think it hardly happens and violators are disrobed. No harm done.
    There have been cases of inappropriate sexual relationships between certain individuals and their students but the "it will further your practice" angle is nonsense.

    Agreed.
    The accounts you are referring to are unreliable and your experience and understanding of Vajrayana is juvenile at best.

    It's worse than that, it's slander.
    What?
    The rules are upheld in the monasteries.

    I figured they were!
    There is a reason that the largest monastic communities in the history of human civilization were and still are in Tibet. And its not because they were huge tantric sex nightclubs.

    Obviously. Heh heh heh :D
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited November 2010
    So some individuals behaved unskillfully, maybe. People are wont to make mistakes, act unskillfully and unwise. No offense to the OP but to vilify an entire group (in this case Vajrayana practitioners) for the actions of certain individuals with in that lineage serves no purpose. While holding ourselves accountable is noble and is something as Buddhist we should do; innuendo is not proof nor does it help your position.
    With Metta,
    Todd
  • edited November 2010
    I agree with Todd.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I do not condone "unskillful actions", nor would I chose a teacher who (to my knowledge) engaged in such.

    However, we have to remain aware of the Western over-idealization of teachers, and the unrealistic expectation that yet-unenlightened beings BE 100% enlightened. There's a reason they called Buddhism a "practice" ... we are all going to make mistakes of one sort of another, and these are opportunities for us to develop better compassion.
  • edited November 2010
    I too think Todds post is right on the money and it strikes the key point of all of these discussions that Dakini keeps starting. Dakini seems to keep grasping for some way to label Vajrayana as a tradition that condones or is somehow more susceptible to sexual misconduct. Which is simply not the case no matter how many times she tries to say it is.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »

    No. Simply because I dont think that lama's are doing this. It may have happened before but its nowhere near as prevalent as you keep implying. There have been cases of inappropriate sexual relationships between certain individuals and their students but the "it will further your practice" angle is nonsense.
    Its about power and attraction on both sides. Its easy to manipulate someone when you are in a position of power. One doesnt need absurd pick-up lines about spiritual practice.
    I think the women you are talking to are either vastly exaggerating or lying.
    Especially the ones who make accusations toward Sakya Trizin and Thrinley Norbu. One huge indicator that their accounts are BS is that they depict them as being childish and ignorant. Which they most certainly are not. If they wanted to do what they are being accused of they wouldnt have to go about it in the way that the account represent. Its laughable really.
    The only way someone could possibly forge the link between this type of sexual misconduct and Vajrayana is if they were actively looking for it or looking for a way to attack and damage the reputation of the lineage and specific teachers within it.
    The accounts you are referring to are unreliable and your experience and understanding of Vajrayana is juvenile at best.

    I'm going to try to address as many concerns as possible, but probably won't get to all of them.
    I don't think Vajrayana condones inappropriate sexual activity. But there have been many incidents (I've only just begun to delve into this, but even if I were to get more testimonies, you wouldn't believe them), and no "enforcement", though I don't know what form that would take in the case of high lamas, plus there's been a lot of secrecy involved, so anyone in a position to enforce anything wouldn't know of this. About enforcement, do you know of any, or very many, monks who have been defrocked? Have you read the Book of Tibetan Elders, the interviews with Ngawang Narkyid, who was a monk and a government official? He spills the beans as to what goes on at night. Why he chose to speak about this in a book dedicated to Wisdom of the Elders, I can't fathom, nor why the publishers chose to include this testimony.

    I don't deny that there aren't women who are willing partners/"consorts" of some lamas, but the women who have experienced abuse didn't have any attraction to their teachers, though they did, typically, have an exaggerated sense of devotion plus a misunderstanding of what was reasonable for the teacher to demand in the teacher-student relationship. They were earnest students interested in advancing their meditation technique or studying texts when they were surprised with what they considered an outrageous demand. The one thing I don't know at this stage, is to what extent this is still a problem; has it settled down since a flury of activity in the 70's and 80's, and into the 90's?

    I have noticed that these women do tend to come away from their experience with a bad impression of Tibetan culture and a condescending attitude towards teachers in general. It's impossible to reason with them or convince them otherwise. They didn't go into the situation with these attitudes at all. My only way of understanding this is to consider that this may be a symptom of the trauma they've suffered. They insist, sometimes, on clearly absurd views.

    Until I came across these reports, I had no idea of any of these tantric practices. I'd never heard of what Shamar refers to as a "tantric sex movement" in the West, much less that it was "very popular", though misrepresented. I'm still trying to put all this into perspective, which is one reason I opened this thread. The question still is: how do we solve the problem. But if you don't believe the testimonies (including June Campbell's), then how can we discuss this? I think the suggestion that dharma students be given guidelines about the student-teacher relationship is a constructive one. The dharma center leaders who met with HHDL on the subject of these abuses returned to their centers and set up their own guidelines for teacher behavior, an example of which I'll print later. I think this type of conscientious approach on behalf of dharma center leaders is also a positive step in the right direction. Also HHDL's suggestion that any aggrieved parties should go to the media and to the police, if necessary, and not remain silent. But I think that the best medicine is preventive medicine, so the media and criminal justice systems don't have to be involved.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Exerpt from "Teacher Code of Ethics" at Spirit Rock Center, CA, under Jack Kornfield:

    (The 5 precepts are observed by all teachers. Detail from 4th precept)

    "Refraining from sexual misconduct"

    Teachers with vows of celibacy will live according to their vows. Teachers in committed relationships will honor their vows and not commit adultery. All teachers agree not to use their teaching role to exploit their authority and position in order to assume a sexual relationship with a student.

    a) a sexual relationship is never appropriate between teachers and students.
    b) During retreats or formal teaching, any intimation of future student-teacher romantic or sexual relationships is inappropriate.
    c) If interest in a genuine committed relationship develops over time between a single teacher and a student, the relationship must clearly and consciously have ended before any further development toward a romantic relationship. In no case should [such a relationship] occur immediately after retreat. A minimum time period of three months of longer from the last formal teaching between [the two parties] and a clear understanding from both parties that the student-teacher relationship has ended but be coupled with a conscious commitment to enter into a relationship that brings no harm to either party."

    Does this sound a bit extreme? Apparently concerned dharma center leaders have decided that this is what is required to prevent problems. I think the fact that dharma leadership made the effort to put a lot of thought into the problem and work out such a policy sends a positive and reassuring message to dharma students.
  • edited November 2010
    That's normal. I'll be honest, it's like those labels on the iron that says you shouldn't iron in a bathtub, or the law that says you should not pee on the Alamo. A stupid person has broken the rule before, but they are the exception, not the rule.
  • edited November 2010
    I've only just begun to delve into this, but even if I were to get more testimonies...

    I will repeat my unanswered question from other topics:

    Why are you delving? Are we some sort of information gathering project for a thesis? Should we be spelling "women" as "womyn"? If so, one should gather information *before* coming up with such highly opinionated interpretations. Your at best highly speculative at worst libelous claims have evoked close to zero sympathy from those in the best situation to aid you in your endeavour.
    My only way of understanding this is to consider that this may be a symptom of the trauma they've suffered.

    Have you stopped to consider the possibility that they are just plain batshit crazy? That is clearly the case with Tara Carreon and the Trimontis. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning won't get you very far in either the Academy or with buddhists. I have met too many crazy people who practice the Dharma to blame their insanity on "trauma at the hands of teachers".
  • edited November 2010
    She is trying to be feminist? Yikes then she is failing immensely. She's projecting the women as the helpless stereotype that played no role in their own plight. She's not even putting a well founded support to say that these claims are real. This means it's only rumor-mongering by crazy people.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »

    I'm going to try to address as many concerns as possible, but probably won't get to all of them.
    I don't think Vajrayana condones inappropriate sexual activity. But there have been many incidents (I've only just begun to delve into this, but even if I were to get more testimonies, you wouldn't believe them), and no "enforcement", though I don't know what form that would take in the case of high lamas, plus there's been a lot of secrecy involved, so anyone in a position to enforce anything wouldn't know of this. About enforcement, do you know of any, or very many, monks who have been defrocked? Have you read the Book of Tibetan Elders, the interviews with Ngawang Narkyid, who was a monk and a government official? He spills the beans as to what goes on at night. Why he chose to speak about this in a book dedicated to Wisdom of the Elders, I can't fathom, nor why the publishers chose to include this testimony.

    I don't deny that there aren't women who are willing partners/"consorts" of some lamas, but the women who have experienced abuse didn't have any attraction to their teachers, though they did, typically, have an exaggerated sense of devotion plus a misunderstanding of what was reasonable for the teacher to demand in the teacher-student relationship. They were earnest students interested in advancing their meditation technique or studying texts when they were surprised with what they considered an outrageous demand. The one thing I don't know at this stage, is to what extent this is still a problem; has it settled down since a flury of activity in the 70's and 80's, and into the 90's?

    I have noticed that these women do tend to come away from their experience with a bad impression of Tibetan culture and a condescending attitude towards teachers in general. It's impossible to reason with them or convince them otherwise. They didn't go into the situation with these attitudes at all. My only way of understanding this is to consider that this may be a symptom of the trauma they've suffered. They insist, sometimes, on clearly absurd views.

    Until I came across these reports, I had no idea of any of these tantric practices. I'd never heard of what Shamar refers to as a "tantric sex movement" in the West, much less that it was "very popular", though misrepresented. I'm still trying to put all this into perspective, which is one reason I opened this thread. The question still is: how do we solve the problem. But if you don't believe the testimonies (including June Campbell's), then how can we discuss this? I think the suggestion that dharma students be given guidelines about the student-teacher relationship is a constructive one. The dharma center leaders who met with HHDL on the subject of these abuses returned to their centers and set up their own guidelines for teacher behavior, an example of which I'll print later. I think this type of conscientious approach on behalf of dharma center leaders is also a positive step in the right direction. Also HHDL's suggestion that any aggrieved parties should go to the media and to the police, if necessary, and not remain silent. But I think that the best medicine is preventive medicine, so the media and criminal justice systems don't have to be involved.
    I reiterate:
    "innuendo is not proof nor does it help your position"
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I have no information on the levels of sexual, physical or emotional abuse in various schools of Buddhism and find the continued references to unproven allegations against Sogyal Rinpoche unskillful. What I do know, however, is that abuse is significantly more common, like murder, within families than in institutional settings.
  • edited November 2010
    I think the guidelines that some centers are instituting are a positive development. My experience with sanghas can be divided into two categories; 1st-class, and somewhat dubious. The Sakyas in Seattle ran a clean show; women were instructed to keep covered up with a shawl or jacket in the lama's presence, classes were taught by the Sakya women. There was no one-on-one contact with the lama. It was a class act. In other sanghas, my experience was different. In one, the lama clearly was trying to start something with one of the women, who wasn't interested. He was persistent, which was awkward for everyone. In another sangha, a couple of women complained about having to deflect unwanted interest from the lama, or lamas, over the years. It seems that a clear and firm policy statement like the one at Spirit Rock is needed. The "honor system" of assuming monk teachers and others will hold to their vows doesn't always work, IMObservation. All students should be treated equally; none should have to bear a burden of defending themselves against the teacher.

    In all the above-mentioned sanghas, I don't recall any mention of the more esoteric practices, nor did anyone I ever spoke to indicate an awareness that this advanced level of practice existed. My questions are: what is the difference between Vajrayana minus the higher practices, and Mahayana? Is there something unique about "basic Vajrayana" that attracts people? And is there an assumption on the part of sangha leaders or teachers that many students will eventually progress to the higher or highest levels? I'm a little confused at this point about what Vajrayana is, or how it works (if that makes sense), and what the expectations are, after reading some of the links presented around this site, some of the discussions and a little on-line material. Maybe how far each student will go, or has the option to go, differs from sangha to sangha. I don't have enough experience to know. I'm guessing this is an optional "advanced track" that is open to those who master the lower practices well. If so, at what point, and in what manner, is it customary for the teacher to offer this option to a student? This pertains to an aspect of the student-teacher relationship.

    In fact, after reading about Lama Ole Nydahl, who, it is said, teaches that Vajrayana and sex are practically synonymous, and reading about another Western lama who infected his students with AIDS before he, himself died of the disease, I can't help but be alarmed. After reading some of the discussion here, I conclude that these are fringe types, possibly not even bona-fide lamas, and not representative of what the school is about. But after reading about these cases, I'd have to confess that my limited view of whatever the advanced practices are about can't help but be "juvenile", as these rogue teachers appear to be themselves, and, I assume, grossly inaccurate. It's regrettable that such a distorted impression can be created. For us relative "newbies", it can be difficult to sort out.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2010
    RE: college professors and students, I've covered this elsewhere, but I can add clarification. Most universities have a policy against professors sleeping with students enrolled in their courses. This is because the prof is in a power position over the student, insofar as he grades the student's work and may be in a position to recommend the student to employers. This is not the case with students not enrolled in the professor's classes. So the way the policy plays out if both parties are mindful of the regulations and of the inherent risks (if a relationship develops but goes sour, the student can file a harrassment complaint against the prof, so he is vulnerable as well), the student waits until she/he completes the prof's course if a relationship is mutually desired, and then they can pursue a liaison without fear of sanction.
    Its a little different because the lama is not handing out an A which will lead to spiritual attainment. In fact if the lama teaches on the 8 worldly winds then the lama is teaching that praise and blame are not a valid drive.
    RE: students are adults, etc.--See comment on wielding power, making threats. Also see comment #57 in "problems in Buddhism" thread,by Ficus Religiosa, for a nutshell summary of the psychological and family of origin issues that affect an individual's ability to stand up to manipulations and threats. Those who have a family history of abuse don't have the normal psychological defenses the rest of us do. I didn't know about this when i began studying the "lama abuse" issue. I've learned by talking to victims and reading material by others who have studied this problem. I'm not going to judge people who have been through sometimes horrific childhood experiences that I can't possibly imagine. I think that as human beings, not to mention as Buddhists, we should be compassionate towards those who have suffered abuse and injustice, and put ourselves in their shoes to try to understand their view of events.
    Sexual abuse is tragic but yet they are still responsible for bad decisions. Just as a bipolar person who engages in risky promiscuous behaviour is responsible. Just as someone who was sexually abused is responsible if they abuse someone in turn. It does help explain their defenses down but it doesn't take 50% of the responsibility away from them. Your idea is that the lama should not ask a woman to have sex because they 'may' have been sexually abused. Another case of you holding a lama to a higher standard than any other man. Many lamas have no vows of celibacy. I do disagree with 'threats' or 'promises of attainment spirituality' via sex. However and I don't mean this to insult you...you seem quite polarized on this issue. I don't have time to read all the books you have. If I read every book by an angry person I'd have no time for anything else. Do you see? I am not upset by you and if there is sexual abuse you are very noble for raising consciousness. When you make a state ment (threats, promises of attainment) you need to provide sources to back you up. Of course its a bit problematic since then we have to check up your sources and we may not have the time. But I would like to see your sources for this information. And I would be curious what the lamas response is. Just because someone claims something doesn't make it true. There are plenty of people disillusioned with both former lovers and former religions. How am I to know if they are telling the truth?
    RE: taking leave of senses for guru: see post #67 under "Problems in Buddhism" about how some gurus set up the situation. If the student is young and very devoted (someone on another site mentioned "unhealthy levels of devotion" --good point), and is coming from an abusive home situation/family of origin, circumstances come together to create a dangerous situation. I agree that students should be aware of the guidelines for a proper guru-student relationshp, and should be prepared to stand up to a guru who makes inappropriate demands. There's been some discussion of that on the "Teacher-Student Relationship" thread, which has been helpful. This info should be provided to all students of the dharma. I'm all for taking preventive measures.

    You mentioned rape. It happens (Sogyal, and others according to reports).

    It's not about "disillusionment in the angelic nature of the opposite sex" (see opening remarks). We're talking about authority figures, including clergy, who abuse their position. We expect religious authorities to keep to a higher moral standard. This is not unreasonable.
    However tempting it is to believe a guru is superhuman and allow them to abuse you the person is partly responsible. The guru of course is also responsible. But let us not forget that these are accusations. We don't actually know if Sogyal raped someone we just know he was accused by someone. This person was probably in shock as many woman are when raped (hypothetically) but I would be more convinced of Sogyal's guilt if she had gotten the physical evidence of the rape after reporting to police and there was DNA evidence of Sogyal's DNA. If that had happened he might be behind bars right now. My argument isn't that Sogyal is innocent, but rather that we don't know whether or not. We only know that he has been accused.
  • edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »


    Until I came across these reports, I had no idea of any of these tantric practices. I'd never heard of what Shamar refers to as a "tantric sex movement" in the West, much less that it was "very popular", though misrepresented. I'm still trying to put all this into perspective, which is one reason I opened this thread. The question still is: how do we solve the problem. But if you don't believe the testimonies (including June Campbell's), then how can we discuss this?

    The reason you had no idea about these practices is because they arent real.
    I dont know what Shamar is referring to but I personally dont really care what he says about anything.
    And no, I absolutely do NOT believe a word of what June Campbell says.
    We cant discuss this, because there is nothing to discuss. You are continuing to repeat unsubstantiated rumors, slander, and nothing more.
    Why would we discuss nonsense?
  • edited November 2010

    In fact, after reading about Lama Ole Nydahl, who, it is said, teaches that Vajrayana and sex are practically synonymous, and reading about another Western lama who infected his students with AIDS before he, himself died of the disease, I can't help but be alarmed. After reading some of the discussion here, I conclude that these are fringe types, possibly not even bona-fide lamas, and not representative of what the school is about..
    The two individuals you mention are/were not bona-fide lama's (not even close actually) if you ask me.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2010
    I'm not sure I understand but I think Fruit Punch quoted scripture that says if a Bikkhu has sex they should be disrobed. I question whether all lamas are Bikkhus? My teacher is a lama and from what I understand that just means she went to a 3 year retreat and was approved by her lineage teacher to teach people. She is married and I assume she has sexual relations. I wouldn't ask her that of course :)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Sogyal Rinpoche is not a monk nor has he taken vows of celibacy. http://frauenopfer.over-blog.de/article-sogyal-rinpoche-sexual-healing-by-mary-finnigan-55405741.html

    Incidentally I would feel a little uncomfortable if my teacher propositioned me. And had a harem of males who she had sex with. The point isn't whether or not that makes a good teacher. In my eyes. The point is whether it is scandalous. I believe in freedom to have sex. And freedom to walk away from a teacher who disgusts you. And freedom to stay with a teacher even though they are promiscuous or do drugs or whatever.

    I do believe threatening people to cast spells on them is wrong. And I believe it is a misrepresentation of the dharma to say that time spent having sex with a guru is a spiritual practice. If I were a member of that sangha and I thought it was true I would leave. But as far as I know both false promises and threats of magical reprisal are both legal.

    By the way if you post disagreement against me I am going to use my magical powers to give you 30 lashes with a wet noodle :D
  • edited November 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand but I think Fruit Punch quoted scripture that says if a Bikkhu has sex they should be disrobed. I question whether all lamas are Bikkhus? My teacher is a lama and from what I understand that just means she went to a 3 year retreat and was approved by her lineage teacher to teach people. She is married and I assume she has sexual relations. I wouldn't ask her that of course :)

    No not all lamas are monks/nuns.
    The vast majority of my lama's are not monks or nuns.
  • edited November 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »

    This is absolutely true.
    There is nothing wrong with non-celibate Buddhist teachers having romantic relationships.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote: »
    This thread was set up in part to answer questions arising on other threads, to consolidate all relevant concerns in one location.

    The phenomenon of abuse of power by authority figures is not confined to secular settings (universities, employment settings), nor to Western churches. Western dharma students have complained of sexual harrassment and coercion to engage in sexual activity on the part of their revered teachers, and of aggressive fundraising/demands for large donations from sangha members. Here I aim to open this problem to discussion and analysis, look at legal ramifications, and look at related issues that may come up in sanghas and one-on-one student-teacher relationships.

    *** Is this problem more common in Vajrayana than in other schools of Buddhism? Why, or why not?

    ***What factors contribute to creating this problem? Can we arrive at an understanding of the underlying causes? (Cultural, psychological, misunderstandings of what is appropriate behavior, etc.)

    ***Can we explore proposals for some practical solutions?

    One high official in the Kagyu order, Shamar Rinpoche, has adopted the measure of eliminating Vajrayana practices from the curriculum in his Bodhi Path centers. Is this what it will take to address the problem, or is there still a role for Vajrayana in the West?

    In a sense, Dakini, you answer your own questions or, at least, show us that there is a problem which may be being ignored/denied, just as the abuse in Catholic churches and both church and state institutions was denied for so long.

    In a sense, it doesn't really matter if abuse is more common here or there. Having identified an area or school or lineage where abuse is alleged, the vital thing is to act swiftly on two fronts:
    - the complainant(s) must be heard and safe space created where this can happen without pressure. We know, from long years of work with abused people that they need to feel heard and that no pressure should be exerted to "forgive" the abuser and "move on" until they take their own steps in that direction. Whilst the principle of innocence until guilt is proved must be maintained, the abused person needs someone on their side, genuinely believing them.

    - immediate steps should be taken to ensure safety for all concerned, teachers and students. A good model is, surprisingly, the guidelines developed by the Catholic bishops of England and Wales in response to the revelations here. This is along and detailed docum,ment as befits so serious a problem.


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  • edited November 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand but I think Fruit Punch quoted scripture that says if a Bikkhu has sex they should be disrobed. I question whether all lamas are Bikkhus?

    Not all lamas are Bhikkus, but the Vinaya safeguards the Sangha from these kinds of predators by providing checks and balances. This prevents these kinds of accusations of institutional misconduct.
  • edited November 2010
    Maras already told the Buddha they will dress up as the Sangha to slander the Dharma.

    The best thing we can do concerning these individuals is not to get attached and let these arguments dirty our mind. There are plenty of Sangha that are still pure and upholds the way. Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism is a small aspect of the way.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    Its a little different because the lama is not handing out an A which will lead to spiritual attainment. In fact if the lama teaches on the 8 worldly winds then the lama is teaching that praise and blame are not a valid drive.

    Sexual abuse is tragic but yet they are still responsible for bad decisions. Just as a bipolar person who engages in risky promiscuous behaviour is responsible. Just as someone who was sexually abused is responsible if they abuse someone in turn. It does help explain their defenses down but it doesn't take 50% of the responsibility away from them. Your idea is that the lama should not ask a woman to have sex because they 'may' have been sexually abused. Another case of you holding a lama to a higher standard than any other man. Many lamas have no vows of celibacy. I do disagree with 'threats' or 'promises of attainment spirituality' via sex. However and I don't mean this to insult you...you seem quite polarized on this issue. I don't have time to read all the books you have. If I read every book by an angry person I'd have no time for anything else. Do you see? I am not upset by you and if there is sexual abuse you are very noble for raising consciousness. When you make a state ment (threats, promises of attainment) you need to provide sources to back you up. Of course its a bit problematic since then we have to check up your sources and we may not have the time. But I would like to see your sources for this information. And I would be curious what the lamas response is. Just because someone claims something doesn't make it true. There are plenty of people disillusioned with both former lovers and former religions. How am I to know if they are telling the truth?

    However tempting it is to believe a guru is superhuman and allow them to abuse you the person is partly responsible. The guru of course is also responsible. But let us not forget that these are accusations. We don't actually know if Sogyal raped someone we just know he was accused by someone. This person was probably in shock as many woman are when raped (hypothetically) but I would be more convinced of Sogyal's guilt if she had gotten the physical evidence of the rape after reporting to police and there was DNA evidence of Sogyal's DNA. If that had happened he might be behind bars right now. My argument isn't that Sogyal is innocent, but rather that we don't know whether or not. We only know that he has been accused.

    Thanks, Jeffrey. One source, coming up. http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/briefing-document-on-sogyal-rinpoche/

    Exerpt below in separate reply.

    If I gave the impression that I was expecting lamas to somehow discern who may have a history of abuse, and who doesn't, and to choose only women who don't have such a history, that was either a miscommunication or a misunderstanding. Clergy isn't supposed to get romantically/sexually involved with members of their constituency, nor with people they're counseling individually. Involvement with those outside their professional role is ok, nobody's business. Clergy, whether married or not, celibate or not, are expected to observe professional and ethical standards that I thought were universally applied worldwide, no matter the culture. Am I wrong in this assumption? Whether or not women are willing is irrelevant. This is discussed in the article cited above. This is why some Western sanghas, after consulting with HHDL, have instituted the rules cited earlier. I don't think these moral values as applied to clergy are just a Western thing, but I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wrong, based on some of the responses to this issue.

    The article discusses the use of promises of "healing" via sex with him as a "tantric master".

    There's a legal principle involved as well, also discussed in the above article. Much of Sogyal's work involved individual counseling to bereaved and grieving women. There's a trust relationship between the counselor and the counseled that must not be breached. The counselor is assumed to be acting in the best interests of the individual in his care. To manipulate the professional relationship for his own gratification is called "breach of fiduciary trust". (Think, for example about cases of psychiatrists taking advantage of their patients, that you may have heard about.) In Sogyal's case, I imagine that it was not difficult to find women to testify about that, though the details of the case have remained confidential.

    Now that HHDL has given the green light to women to take grievances to the media and police, maybe there will be cases with documentation. DNA testing wasn't available in the 70's, but it is now.

    No books by angry people, unless you count June Campbell, who was scholarly in her approach, she was very careful about that. Books about the history of the tantric movement in India, to try to understand the history behind and the nature of these grievances.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    From Dialogue Ireland:

    "When a religious figure in a position of trust engages in a sexual act with a follower, that person's status transforms a seemingly consensual act into an abusive one. It is blatant abuse where a person in a position of trust engages in sexual relations with another both from the perspective of the abuse of power and the abuse of the individual victim.

    Where the teacher is perceived as a "tantric master" and the act is accompanied by the promise of spiritual benefit, this moves everything to an even deeper level of abusive depravity.

    If the multiple allegations are true and were accompanied by promises of a tantric experience, or as the Janice Doe lawsuit suggests, victims were told they would be strengthened and healed by having sex with Sogyal, the relations were abusive and ritualized."

    I, myself, don't understand why the women didn't freak out and run away at Sogyal's propositions, but I don't know much about the psychology of the bereaved, the trust placed in counselors, combined with the high esteem/idolization some of these women had toward Sogyal. The same goes for women taken advantage of by their psychiatrists. It's happened in the past, women have won their cases. So there must be something to the psychology of it.
  • edited November 2010
    I heard that in 1994, a $10 million civil lawsuit was filed against Sogyal Rinpoche. It was alleged that over a period of many years, Rinpoche had used his position as a spiritual leader to induce some of his female students to have sexual relations with him. The complaint included accusations of infliction of emotional distress, breach of fiduciary duty, as well as assault and battery. But the lawsuit was settled out of court, so I have a feeling they didn't have enough evidence to go forward with the claims.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    The details of the case and settlement have been kept confidential. We don't know if there wasn't enough evidence, or if on the contrary, Sogyal made an offer in order to avoid paying $10,000,000.
  • edited November 2010
    From my very limited knowledge of Tibetan Tantra techniques involving sex, I heard it's suppose to be a very rarely used method at the highest most secret level? In my opinion anything more public than that got to be a hereodox dark practice hijacked to slander the Dharma.

    Wasn't Charles Manson a Tantric Practitioner?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Am I wrong in this assumption?
    In my opinion yes. Neither the American Psychology Association nor HHDL has authority here.
  • edited November 2010
    The minute you have a chain of command, the minute you have authority, the game becomes rigged.
  • conradcookconradcook Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Dakini wrote:
    From Dialogue Ireland:

    "When a religious figure in a position of trust engages in a sexual act with a follower, that person's status transforms a seemingly consensual act into an abusive one. It is blatant abuse where a person in a position of trust engages in sexual relations with another both from the perspective of the abuse of power and the abuse of the individual victim.

    There are two senses of "abusive" that this passage might be confounding, namely, abuse of the follower, or abuse of the authority. The proper antonym for "consensual" in this context is "forcible," or at least "coercive."

    American culture is, in my opinion, currently very hung-up about sex in the workplace. I've worked at jobs where people said that the company policy was that coworkers couldn't date. I don't know if it was true that there was such an official policy; but when the company can be sued for lots of money because employees behave badly, there becomes an incentive to discourage any kind of romance.

    I really think it depends on the nature of the working relationship, and on the nature of the romantic or sexual relationship.
    Where the teacher is perceived as a "tantric master" and the act is accompanied by the promise of spiritual benefit, this moves everything to an even deeper level of abusive depravity.

    We're assuming that there is no actual spiritual benefit, correct?

    I say this because I think sex with someone you love can be spiritually benefitial.
    If the multiple allegations are true and were accompanied by promises of a tantric experience, or as the Janice Doe lawsuit suggests, victims were told they would be strengthened and healed by having sex with Sogyal, the relations were abusive and ritualized."

    I, myself, don't understand why the women didn't freak out and run away at Sogyal's propositions, but I don't know much about the psychology of the bereaved, the trust placed in counselors, combined with the high esteem/idolization some of these women had toward Sogyal. The same goes for women taken advantage of by their psychiatrists. It's happened in the past, women have won their cases. So there must be something to the psychology of it.

    Mm. Well, certainly that does happen. And you might have sexual predators who seek out positions of power. I don't know anything about this Janice Doe / Sogyal thing; I'm actually thinking of the troubles the Catholic church has had with their priests, in America and in Europe, over the past few years.

    But, to show up the differences between sexual predators and priests with normal, reasonably healthy sexual desires who end up in oppressive situations--

    I believe in the 60s, in Boston, a Catholic priest had a long-term girlfriend. Not a big deal; it happens, right? But because of the prohibitions against this, he developed a certain mindset.

    Then one night, his girlfriend overdosed on cocaine. What was uppermost in the priest's mind was that it was finally going to happen. He was going to get caught. So he fled the scene. And, without medical treatment, she died.

    Frankly, it seems to me that the idea that defrocking people who break vows of chastity is the solution... is the problem. There are a few reasons for this:

    First, the severity of the punishment creates avoidance behavior that, as in the case of the Boston priest, itself creates trouble and misery.

    Second, it in effect forces the priest (or guru) to repress his sexuality. And the problem with repressing sexual impulses, as we all know, is that for most people the sexual impulses aren't going anywhere. They build up, and build up, and become more and more difficult to be dealt with rationally and controlledly. And over time it seems this can, for some people, warp their character.

    Third, sexuality is so much a part of the human design that breaking vows of celibacy becomes common. When there are severe punishments against it, then, we see an organization of individuals, many of whom would be open to punishment. So you get a culture of covering over such transgressions.

    And that culture, regrettably, functions just as efficiently to cover over instances of real, horrific abuse as instances of consensual vow-breaking.

    Finally, the image that priests and gurus are celibate is harmful, because it causes people who are potentially vulnerable and generally cautious to drop their guard. It's very sweet that everyone thinks a young woman, or a child, is safe with a Man of God in a way that he's not safe with a plumber ... but as sweet as it is, it might be a really bad misconception.

    In general, it seems to me that the question is whether any particular relationship is abusive or not, and this can't be given a blanket answer. If the teacher might be, or could be, too powerful in a particular context, the solution to that is not to layer restrictions on him (or her), which could be broken anyway, but to take institutional steps to educate and empower the students, and to create openness around discussion, to defuse such problems before they become problems.

    I'd like to see such vows treated as dietary vows, the breaking of which is not a big deal; and any abusiveness treated as abusiveness and potential crimes. They're separate issues, in my opinion.

    Buddha bless,

    Conrad.
  • edited November 2010
    My understanding of some of the points raised in this thread is that no one is denying that spiritual leaders should have sexual relationships. They can do so outside their professional role, when they're not "on the job". (Assuming they're not monks.) We (including in my thread) are looking at what steps can be taken to ensure a wholesome environment for all sangha members.
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