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Buddhism and Porn.
Well not exactly a good topic for a very first posting. However I recently started Buddhism practice because I believe that it treats people more equally than other religions. However I was very disturbed to receive some statistics from a friend of mine which I reproduce below:
Porn Industry: Major Players
(http://www.economywatch.com/world-industries/porn-industry.html)
...... The top adult entertainment companies include Vivid Entertainment (US), Playboy (US), Frenesi Films (Brazil) and Erostream (Netherlands). Some of the major porn producing nations are Spain, Japan, Russia and Germany. According to toptenreviews.com, the countries with the largest revenue from the porn industry (in 2006) include China ($27.40 billion), South Korea ($25.73 billion), Japan ($19.98 billion) and the US ($13.33 billion) ........
I was shocked that around 75% of the world's porn come from three top and highly developed Buddhism practising nations. As we all know porn industry is totally degrading to women and ruthlessly exploits them. It is also degrading to the people who watch it. If fact the most bizarre, smuttiest, disgusting and kinkiest kind of porn comes from these countries.
So I am trying to understand the connection between Buddhism and porn addiction and their absolute INEQUALITY and DISRECPECTABILTY towards women who are our mothers, wives, children and hard-working women in our corporate worlds.
While I have found Buddhism to be a good practice these statistics have mentally disturbed me a lot and I am searching for answers. Please help. Is there a good explanation?
Rgds
Porn Industry: Major Players
(http://www.economywatch.com/world-industries/porn-industry.html)
...... The top adult entertainment companies include Vivid Entertainment (US), Playboy (US), Frenesi Films (Brazil) and Erostream (Netherlands). Some of the major porn producing nations are Spain, Japan, Russia and Germany. According to toptenreviews.com, the countries with the largest revenue from the porn industry (in 2006) include China ($27.40 billion), South Korea ($25.73 billion), Japan ($19.98 billion) and the US ($13.33 billion) ........
I was shocked that around 75% of the world's porn come from three top and highly developed Buddhism practising nations. As we all know porn industry is totally degrading to women and ruthlessly exploits them. It is also degrading to the people who watch it. If fact the most bizarre, smuttiest, disgusting and kinkiest kind of porn comes from these countries.
So I am trying to understand the connection between Buddhism and porn addiction and their absolute INEQUALITY and DISRECPECTABILTY towards women who are our mothers, wives, children and hard-working women in our corporate worlds.
While I have found Buddhism to be a good practice these statistics have mentally disturbed me a lot and I am searching for answers. Please help. Is there a good explanation?
Rgds
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, and I don't think we can conclude there's a connection between Buddhism and pornography based solely on the fact that a lot of pornography comes from countries that are predominately Buddhist. There could be other factors contributing to these statistics that aren't being taken into account in the link above, e.g., cultural attitudes, socio-economic conditions, etc.
Also, just because a person has a particular religious identification doesn't mean their actions will be an ideal representation of that religion, or that they even faithful 'practice what they preach.' As Ajahn Mun might say, don't mistake the customs of people for defilements with the customs of the noble ones.
We don't ask for forgiveness in buddhism. Instead we:
1 Power of Remorse
a investigate the meaningless of nonvirtue
b by investigating fear of its result
c by investigating the need to be free of it quickly
2 Power of Antidote. The complete antidote to evil deeds is the practice of virtue.
3 Power of Resolve
One who lacks self guidance
And later possesses mindfulness
Is like a radiant moon being freed from clouds.
For example, Nanda, Angulimal, Ajataashatru, and Udayana
4 Power of Reliance. Taking refuge in the Three Jewels and cultivating the mind towards upreme enlightenment.
Like entrusting myself to a brave man when greatly feared
By entrusting myself to this awakening mind I shall be
swifty liberated
Even if I have committed extremely unbearable evils.
Why then do the conscientious not devote themselves to this?
There is no connection.
Porn is digusting and degrading.
Porn comes from Buddhist countries.
Buddhist like that which is disgusting and degrading, in this case porn.
This is not logical.
A majority of people in America identify themselves as Christians.
America has a high murder rate
Christians are murderers.
Doesn't quite work that way.
With Metta,
Todd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1JEDWs37Q&feature=fvsr
These are some harsh feelings you harbor towards the porn industry. But what you must realize is that all mediums, has good and bad in it. This includes the porn industry.
At the core, the porn industry is a service, just like all other paying jobs. When you start to look at it as a service it can be something positive. Prostitution is actually the oldest or one of the oldest professions. Porn is a bit like that, but it is much better maintained a lot more safe for the girls.
Porn is not all about banging and getting paid for it, sure that can seem a bit shady. But just solo porn for example, just the girl with a camera of her own, or a camera man and getting paid for that. I see nothing wrong with that.
In many cases you have young adult women that are struggling financially (maybe to pay for school) and this is what they want to do because they were already naturally kinky to begin with. All humans have a different level of sexual peak if you will. What you think is kinky, smutty, will be great to someone else, just naturally.
So in most cases you have adult women who do this of their own will and they get pleasure from sharing themselves and getting paid for it. It's a service for them, that they enjoy. It's very safe when it's solo porn. More safe than many jobs I can name.
If I was a beautiful woman, solo porn is a job I would consider. So you know, you can't really call it a worse profession than being a chef really. Those guys work their asses off, get paid peanuts, and they usually feed very good, but fattening food to their customers. It's the same principle in porn (though they have easier and better paying jobs than chefs). It is service of aiming to please a sensual and natural desire (same as serving good food for money).
So while Buddhism has nothing to do with the success of the porn industry, Buddhism can help you see there are positive things to it. And as long as humans are alive there will be porn, it's safer than prostitution.
It's delusional to think porn can help people cultivate their buddha nature. Non-duality and seeing the empty nature to all phenomeones doesn't mean we accept everything in our cultivation. Most of us can't even hold the 5 precepts, the last thing we need to play Mara's game.
Even though we don't judge what other people do and do not discriminate against people in the porn industry, it's still a good thing to at least know whats good for your own cultivation.
Edit: Found them
Super liberal points of views that consents everything will cause more addictions, desensitisation and causing people to seek greedily for more.
I doubt thoughts of compassion, kindness and tolerance etc are in our mind when we watch and think about porn.
If you answer is 'Buddhists', are you serious?
If not, then how do you think that the sparse temples cause others to produce and buy porn?
Look up statistics on what percentage of people in those countries are actually Buddhists.
Buddhism doesn't do anything. People who follow Buddhism do things.
How does it naturally follow that this porn is being produced and marketed by practising Buddhists, may I ask?
While I understand in many ways this may well be an accurate projection, there are many participants in the Porn industry who are quite content to be involved in it. So while I agree in part, I feel you should quantify your generalisation.
Porn in and of itself is not evil, degrading or exploitative.
If you have sex with your partner, in a loving, united and cohesive frame of mind, that's wonderful.
If you film that moment and put it on the internet, suddenly, it's 'porn'.
See? it's all a question of perception.
It's not "illegal" for a Buddhist to enjoy porn. The question comes in the attachment or attitude, and the craving which arises....
Buddhism and porn addiction, is the same as Buddhism and alcohol/drug/cigarette addiction.
it's not the object that is necessarily the problem. it's the desire and craving.
There is no connection between this and a person who practises Buddhism.
Yes.
you have your wires crossed.
I think you should review your perception, prejudice and judgement, and re-think things.
Yeah, pretty much exactly what he said.
You think porn is wrong, doesn't mean it is. Women who do porn have other choices. The majority of them that do it *want to. Many porn is self made for pleasure even without getting paid. Men do it too, so it's not just degrading to women.
The statement about it being degrading is your opinion, it is not fact. American media is full of glorified violence. Why is people getting beat up for money (boxing) less degrading than people having sex for fun?
If you look at the population of Japan compared to China, Japan actually is the highest consumer of porn in the world, just for its population ratio. However, the big majority of Japanese porn is censored. What would you consider more degrading, a woman spreading her legs with a blurry mosaic, or uncensored?
Because in America the porn is uncensored and they tend to be by majority Christians. I think less than 10 percent are Buddhist in America. So now, will you blame Christians for wanting uncensored porn and zen Buddhists for wanting censored porn lol? It really doesn't make sense to blame religion for these things.
Good points..I think another part of the problem is the assumption that porn =/= feminism (not necessarily, feminists are divided on this issue; personally I am a feminist who is supportive of consensual pornography and sex work) and that all porn actors and/or other sex workers are too ignorant to know or care that they are (supposedly) being oppressed, which isn't always the case.
Along these lines, I recommend checking out the site <a href="http://whore2culture.wordpress.com/about/">Whore To Culture</a> (great pun), which does a good job of showcasing the thoughts and arguments of intelligent and well-educated sex workers.
Actaully a good book and three large drinks of a good scotch every evening make me a totally peaceful person. Religion is for sick people who cannot think on their own. Religion is the opiate of the masses as Karl Marx had said.
Much Metta to you,
Todd
Unfortunately, you don't seem to realize that your conclusions rest upon a host of unproven (and, in my opinion, faulty) assumptions that need to be examined first, such as the fact that these are predominately 'Buddhist' countries. You seem to conclude that, because porn is produced in Buddhist countries, there must be a connection between Buddhism and porn, but you've overlooked the fact that none of the countries listed are predominately Buddhist.
Moreover, predominately Buddhist countries such as Cambodia (90%), Sri Lanka (70%), Burma (88%), Bhutan (75%), Tibet (65%), etc. aren't even mentioned on the list, which leads me to believe that there are other factors contributing to these statistics that aren't being taken into account (e.g., cultural attitudes, socio-economic conditions, etc.). In conclusion, I don't see any connection between Buddhism and pornography based on what's been presented thus far.
What he actually said was, "Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people" (A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right).
Believe it or not, I think this accords quite well with Buddhism since opium is a type of pain-killer, and what the Buddha taught is the cure for the underlying illness of suffering, thereby eliminating our need for pain-killers of any kind, including Buddhism. In Buddhism, what truly matters is what one does with the teachings, not what one believes about them, which is why I think the Buddha likened his teachings to a raft in MN 22:
To me, the main difference between the approaches of the Buddha and Marx is one of focus; whereas the Buddha's focus was primarily on how to liberate the individual from their mental suffering by mastering the process of 'I-making and my-making' involved with our conception of self, Marx's focus, the bodhisattva that he was, was primarily on how to liberate society from their suffering and alienation by changing the material conditions that support it.
Regardless of the wonderful insight from many posters, it strikes me that the original poster is a concern troll. Has this been an ongoing problem on this forum or is it new? I can point to certain other posters I have been engaged in threads with that similarly don't seem to be buddhists or even people interested in Buddhism-- simply people trolling for response with a strong agenda that has nothing to do with the NewBuddhist mission.
It's all being observed......;)
There is no such thing as a stupid question.
Are you talking to me?
I am looking for a minimalist religion, if any.
Besides, the healthiest way to frame Buddhism wouldn't be as "a religion", in my opinion.
Damn, there goes my commission.
As I said, concern troll, please don't let the door slam on your way out. Difficult questions are one thing, absurd polemics are another. What is truly ironic is that I have been both Hindu and Buddhist for almost 20 years now. It's all sanatanadharma as far as I am concerned. However, if you are going to get on Internet forums and rail against sex, I suggest that you try evangelical Christianity. Should be right up your alley.
True, but there are an awful lot of inquisitive idiots.
Really? I thought posts #3 and #22 were pretty sober and balanced. Not only that, but I thought they did a good job showing that there isn't any link between Buddhism and pornography, at least not based on what's been presented by you thus far. Oh well.
I learn something new about myself everyday.
I've been called worse things by better people.
I like Swing is Yellow's point, that just because murders are high in the US, and it claims to be a Christian country, one can't conclude that Christians are murderers.
I'd like to add a point of clarification: the definition of "pornography" is material that's degrading to women. This comes from the Greek: "porne" referring to prostitutes, and "graphos" meaning writing. It originally was written material about prostitutes. Erotic material that does not degrade women, such as someone (Mr. Serenity?) mentioned--when women make their own films and are in complete control, or in depictions of couples where both are in equal power positions and there's no violence against women, is called "erotica". Viewing either one tends to warp the mind; I'm not making any recommendations for one or the other, but some of the contributors were making some points where it would be useful to have the right terms.
A lot of porn is produced in Russia because there's a mafia there that controls anything that brings in obscene (so to speak) piles of money. Maybe there are mafias in these other countries, mafias that have nothing to do with Buddhism.
P.S. Is there a website mission statement? Where?
P.P.S. China isn't a Buddhist country, it's Communist, primarily. And Taoist. And Buddhist. And Christian. Do you think it's Buddhists who are controlling the porn production there? Fat chance, IMO, unless it's people who are marginally Buddhist, giving money to temples in order to hedge their karmic bets. It's probably either some of the newly-rich businessmen, or Party functionaries, who have "guanxi": connections. You can't do anything there without connections, and I doubt that very many Buddhists have the right connections, or the inclination, frankly. But...what do I know?
That guy was rightfully banned. He was saying religion is for sick people. That saying alone is pretty hypocritical and shows a lot of negative nature. This guy was not here to consider unbiased opinions. He was here to find people who would agree with him and stroke his own ego. He was already full of his own perceptions and ideas that were totally right for him. He wanted to convince others that Buddhism was associated with something shameful, and also wanted to talk down the porn industry.
He started to lose his cool, because he was finding people that thought different than his ego told him was right. And the bottom line was, that he was here to attack Buddhism. If he was not here mainly for that fact, then he wouldn't of been continuing the attacks the way he was. If someone is here to learn, and to truly get other opinions they won't be that aggressive.