Q: the 5 faculties v. the 5 strengths?

conradcook

I'm reading Wings to Awakening (http://tinyurl.com/wingstoawakening), which early on lists the 7 Sets (seven important lists).

Among these are the 5 Faculties and the 5 Strengths.

The 5 Faculties are:

1. Conviction
2. Persistence
3. Mindfulness
4. Concentration
5. Discernment

While the 5 Strengths are:

1. Conviction
2. Persistence
3. Mindfulness
4. Concentration
5. Discernment

--the Pali terms are identical, too.

It seems odd. Does anyone know what to make of this? Was there a copying error somewhere along the transmission of the doctrine? Or is there a specific reason for these to be separate lists?

Just trying to figure it out.

Buddha bless,

Conrad.

Cloud

"Faculty" can also mean "ability" or "skill", very similar to a "strength" (not specifically meaning muscular/physical strength).

Best guess, different translation. Same as dukkha being translated variously into unsatisfactoriness, suffering, pain, dissatisfaction, frustration, et cetera.

Jeffrey

You missed this discussion in the website

§ 91. There is a manner of reckoning whereby the five faculties are the same as the five strengths, and the five strengths the same as the five faculties. And what is that method?
Whatever is the faculty of conviction, that is the strength of conviction. Whatever is the strength of conviction, that is the faculty of conviction. Whatever is the faculty of persistence, that is the strength of persistence. Whatever is the strength of persistence, that is the faculty of persistence. Whatever is the faculty of mindfulness, that is the strength of mindfulness. Whatever is the strength of mindfulness, that is the faculty of mindfulness. Whatever is the faculty of concentration, that is the strength of concentration. Whatever is the strength of concentration, that is the faculty of concentration. Whatever is the faculty of discernment, that is the strength of discernment. Whatever is the strength of discernment, that is the faculty of discernment.
Imagine a river — flowing, sloping, inclining toward the east — in whose midst is an island. There is a manner of reckoning whereby the river is classified as one current, and another manner of reckoning whereby it is classified as two.
And what is the first manner of reckoning? Whatever water lies to the east of the island, and whatever water lies to the west. This is the manner of reckoning whereby the river is classified as one current.
And what is the second manner of reckoning? Whatever water lies to the north of the island, and whatever water lies to the south. This is the manner of reckoning whereby the river is classified as two.
In the same way, whatever is the faculty of conviction, that is the strength of conviction. Whatever is the strength of conviction, that is the faculty of conviction... Whatever is the faculty of discernment, that is the strength of discernment. Whatever is the strength of discernment, that is the faculty of discernment.

— SN 48.43

conradcook

That makes sense... but why then does the book talk about "the 7 Sets" rather than "the 6 Sets"?

Is there some difference in application? I mean, it seems so obvious that someone would have caught it, unless the double-listing has some function.

Buddha bless,

Conrad.

Jeffrey

1. Conviction
2. Persistence
3. Mindfulness
4. Concentration
5. Discernment

These are related to the buddha nature as taught by my teacher..

1. Mindfulness = openness, spaciousness, emptiness... opening to your experience

2. The balance of Persistence (energy) and Concentration = clarity or awareness

3. The balance of Coviction (faith, sradda) and Discernment (prajna or intelligence) = sensitivity

This is exactly what I am refering to when I say: Clarity, Openness, and Sensitivity!

And remember as Einstein said 'science' (even dharmic science) is reality as exposed to your method. Which is an expression of the raft analogy in the dharma.

conradcook

Ah! Thanks, Jeffrey.

Buddha bless,

Conrad.

jinzang

The five strengths are the five faculties after they have been made completely stable and unwavering.