I have a little question regarding rebirth/reincarnation...

gallowsbird · November 2005

I've been looking in a lot of places for info, and I'm very happy to see that Buddhism may be a great system that I can see eye to eye with and remain happily agnostic.

I do have a question though, and even though I've read a lot about rebirth and reincarnation I'm still a little confused about it.

As far as I understand, we're born into new lives as we die, based on our karma, but our souls aren't totally in the same in the new life. They're shaped by the karma. And when you reach a certain level of enlightenment or good karma, you're born as a 'celestial being'? Or nirvana? Which is basically the end of suffering through life. Is this correct?

Also, could Buddhism support a theory of 'ghosts and spirits'? I really do believe in them, and I'm curious whether or not that meshes with Buddhism.

I appreciate the help.

this looks like a great community from what I can see!

-Sylvie

DharmaKitten · November 2005

There is no soul. There is no permanence. Only our karma continues (well, and what was "our" matter). But it is not "us."

Jason · November 2005

Sylvie,

Welcome to our community.

As for rebirth, it can be very confusing! In the teachings about rebirth there is nothing that is 'reincarnated' per se. The Buddha taught anatta, which translates as "not-self" or "ownerless". (See this for one view: No-self or Not-self) In some Buddhist thought, rebirth is seen as when a being is at death, the last moment of their consciousness (or stream of kamma, or whatever...) of the previous life conditions the first moment of consciousness ( or stream of kamma, or whatever...) of the present birth. It is a perpetual stream of consciousness (or kamma, or whatever...), a series of ever continuing thought-moments conditioned by tahna (craving) due to avijja (ignorance)...

But, you do not have to concern yourself with such notions at the beginning. What is more important than understand the concept and mechanisms of rebirth is how you live your life. Buddhism's main selling point is that it is practical. Of course you can get hung up on rebirth, kamma, peta-realms (ghost realms), etc. if you want, but you don't have to. You can simply live skillfully by following the Noble Eightfold Path, as well as observing the five precepts (I believe that no matter who you are this way of life leads to happiness, wisdom, and peace.):

1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.

2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.

3. Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.

4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.

5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

I cannot say exactly what the Buddha meant when he taught about the other realms of existence, but many people believe them to be literal (and not just states of mind). In those realms there are ghost realms, celestial realms, and so on. A brief summary of them can be read here: The Thirty-one Planes of Existence

I hope that you find this helpful, and feel free to ask more questions.

Jason

gallowsbird · November 2005

Thanks a lot!

That clears it up quite a bit honestly.

Maybe I will just take what I understand so far and not be concerned with the rest right away. I can just try and learn as I go. If I have any other questions I'll be sure and ask.

-Sylvie

TheSeekerOfTruth · November 2005

Excellent response

Palzang · November 2005

Yes, I think that's a good idea, GB. It is much better to focus on meditation and settling your mind at this point than on such weighty issues as rebirth and reincarnation. Yes, the Buddha did teach that we are born and reborn countless times, but truly understanding that takes many years of contemplation, so best not to worry about that now.

I would add, however, that such things as ghosts and spirits do not necessarily conflict with the teachings. For example, one of our sangha members had an experience with a ghost. His sister died suddenly in a car wreck, and she did not realize that she was dead, so she kept coming back to her family's house trying to communicate with her family and getting very frustrated and angry when they wouldn't respond. She would throw things and move things which really freaked out the family, as you can imagine, because they couldn't see her. This happened in Annapolis, Maryland, and was reported in the press there. My teacher was fortunately able to intervene and let the sister know that she was dead, which allowed her to let go of that life and find peace. So yes, I also believe in ghosts. It's sort of a local hell realm, you might say.

KnightofBuddha · November 2005

I (at least currently) am not concerned with such things as reincarnation and rebirth. I like Buddhism because it is simple and practical as stated here. It gives me a way to deal with negative emotions and get through tough times.

poetslietoomuch · November 2005

what would be a big step for someone who believe they would want to live a monastic life, start with retreats, or, is there a way one could sit down and talk with a prospective teacher?

Jason · November 2005

poetslietoomuch,

As someone who desires to one day live the monastic life, I believe that it should not be a 'rash' decision. My advice is to at least practice Buddhism seriously for a minimum of two years. In that time, besides reading Suttas/Sutras, you should attend retreats as often as you can. In this time you will get a much better feel for the monastic life. All too often we glorify things without looking into the real "meat and potatoes" of it. Monastic life can be a lot different from what many people perceive. After studying and practicing for a while it would be a good idea to then talk to a teacher. Explain your desires and motivations for such a thing, and they will take it from there.

Jason

Palzang · November 2005

I would second what Elohim (Jason) said, PLTM. Becoming ordained is not something you want to rush into and then find out it's not for you. That's much worse than doing nothing at all. First find a teacher and practice your heinie off. Then, if it seems like what you want to do, look into becoming ordained. It also depends on what school of Buddhism you choose as to what sort of ordination is available. In Zen, for instance, many lineages allow monks to marry (though not all!). That's not true in Theravadan or Tibetan Buddhist monastic lineages however. Also some places make you wait up to 5 years before taking ordination. At Shasta Abbey, a Soto Zen monastery in Northern California, you have to spend at least 5 years as a novice before taking monastic ordination. Other places have similar requirements. That's not just to put up obstacles, it's to make sure you're doing the right thing because ordination is for life. To take ordination and then give it up later is very heavy karma, so please don't put the cart before the horse (if I may mix metaphors)! I studied Buddhism for 20 years before I got ordained. But then, I'm a little slow!

Palzang