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The Middle Path

thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
edited December 2010 in Buddhism Basics
I have known about Buddhism for probably thirty years. That it was the middle path, whatever that meant to me.

I doubt I am rare in this sense, the Middle Path is now a common and almost "pop" summation of what Dharma is.

And then (two decades later) I got all into the path in the details, broken up into its Noble eight Strands. Again, like I guess most of us here did.

Do you think we overlook the simplicity of middle path once we understand its depth and complexity?

namaste

Comments

  • edited December 2010
    Some people do, some people don't.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Some people do, some people don't.

    Did you just take the middle path there? :p
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited December 2010
    The Middle Way is not a reference to the 8-fold path. It describes a a state of mind that does not lean to any opposing extreme. Originally it was in reference to the concept of avoiding the extremes of sensual, worldy indulgence, and harsh austerities that cause harm to the body and mind.

    It can be used to describe avoidance of attachment to any form of extreme, be it eternalism or nihilism, finite or infinite, existence or non-esistence, etc. By recognizing the empty nature of all phenomena, one realizes that these polarities are illusions created by the ignorant mind, and lead to suffering.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Talisman wrote: »
    The Middle Way is not a reference to the 8-fold path.

    It is to me:)
    Originally it was in reference to the concept of avoiding the extremes of sensual, worldy indulgence, and harsh austerities that cause harm to the body and mind.

    I believe in its prime teaching it was the path between the certain belief in the uncertain and the belief in nothing.

    It was the path between these extremes.

    But it was not composed of the mid point between these extremes.

    It is composed of the steps that are the Noble eightfold path.

    And it travels in just one direction, from the extreme of suffeing to the extreme of nonattachment.

    I think that is the spirit of the First Sermon, I may well be wrong.
    It can be used to describe avoidance of attachment to any form of extreme, be it eternalism or nihilism, finite or infinite, existence or non-esistence, etc.

    Actually, I agree with you on all of the above except existence and nonexistance. These are not positions, extreams, like eternalism and nihilism, there is no distance between them to contain a middle. They are binary. If it exists it exists. If not, then not.
    By recognizing the empty nature of all phenomena, one realizes that these polarities are illusions created by the ignorant mind, and lead to suffering.

    Agree, apart from about the polarity of existence/nonexistance, as said above. (I guess in some senses there may be things that can be said to partially exist, but that is not the same kind of existance as that which does exist, like this full stop exists.)


    namaste
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited December 2010
    It may not be what the Middle Way means exactly, but the implication has been to find that place that does not cling to a view that's unproven/unknowable. This has helped illuminate that place where there is neither belief nor disbelief, a state of comfortable not-knowing... focusing upon what is there in direct experience.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Cloud wrote: »
    It may not be what the Middle Way means exactly, but the implication has been to find that place that does not cling to a view that's unproven/unknowable. This has helped illuminate that place where there is neither belief nor disbelief, a state of comfortable not-knowing... focusing upon what is there in direct experience.

    I like the way you say that.

    The middle path between before and after, the not me or there but this. Clarity not certainty or ignorance.

    namaste
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited December 2010
    The signature I had wasn't all that useful, so I'll use that for a while.
  • edited December 2010
    It does not matter if the Middle Path is a reference to the 8-fold path. What matters is that you understand why extremes of every and any kind is bad for the final outcome of humanity. Look at the Middle Path, but from Buddha's perspective.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited December 2010
    hugist wrote: »
    It does not matter if the Middle Path is a reference to the 8-fold path.

    It might not matter, but it is surely the same path? How many paths does buddhism have? is there more than one? if there is then how do we get the middle path between the two paths?

    What's the problem with the middle path and the eightfold path being the same path, the path of dharma practice?
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited December 2010
    There are an infinite number of paths, and there is nothing wrong with associating the Middle Way with the 8-fold path, because they go hand-in-hand. I was just clarifying the concepts as best I could.
  • edited December 2010
    thickpaper wrote: »
    It might not matter, but it is surely the same path? How many paths does buddhism have? is there more than one? if there is then how do we get the middle path between the two paths?

    What's the problem with the middle path and the eightfold path being the same path, the path of dharma practice?

    Imagine being able to realize this is all an illusion. Really realize it. That even time is an illusion.

    Now, most people are going to go through rebirth. Assume rebirth is quasi-random. Now assume that people must be rebirthed at future time.

    ;)
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    edited December 2010
    hugist wrote: »
    Imagine being able to realize this is all an illusion. Really realize it. That even time is an illusion.

    Now, most people are going to go through rebirth. Assume rebirth is quasi-random. Now assume that people must be rebirthed at future time.

    ;)

    But that makeee no sensee to mee. At which point you are meant to stroak your chin and nod wisely, I guess;)

    But seriously, what do you mean?
  • edited December 2010
    Lots of books I have read also refer to the Noble Eightfold Path as the Middle Way. I suppose we can say that the Buddha's entire teachings can be considered the "Middle Way". Like in Dependent Origination, we are asked to avoid the extremes of nihilism and eternalism. Anyway, the Middle Way always reminds me of this:
    There was a harp-playing monk named Sona who practiced asceticism to become enlightened. Buddha asked Sona, if you make the string on your harp very tight, does it play well. Sona said no. Buddha asked, if you make the strings on the harp very loose, does it play well. Sona said no. Buddha then told Sona that it is only when the strings are tightened the right amount, does the harp make music.
    Metta to all... :)
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