If all emotions are pain...

Ermine

Recently my brother's girlfriend gave birth to a healthy baby boy. We are overjoyed that this little guy is so healthy and strong.

This made me think: How can joy be painful? Why is being happy that this baby was born into a healthy body a painful thing?

fivebells

It's not. Attachment to the circumstances giving rise to the joy will lead to pain, though, because those circumstances are adventitious and impermanent.

Ermine

So, the noble truth is not that all emotions are in and of themselves painful, but attachment to the things that give rise to them are?

Cinorjer

So, the noble truth is not that all emotions are in and of themselves painful, but attachment to the things that give rise to them are?

Pretty much. Emotions are not inherently bad, neither are thoughts or memories, or any of the skandhas that make up the mind. It is emotions that arise or are stained by selfish desires that put us in the state of suffering. An emotionless mind is a crippled mind.

The desire for control is one of the worst, and that leads to attachment to some ideal of what raising a baby and being new parents is supposed to be. The cute, cuddly baby turns out to cry all the time and the mother is exhausted and depressed and the father can't get any sleep and has to work overtime because of the medical bills, and none of this fits either parent's ideal of a happy family with a beautiful baby boy. So the parents suffer because they insist the reality of a baby must conform to the ideal they are each attached to, and blame each other and the baby for failing to live up to their selfish desires.

That joy in the new baby eventually becomes stained by selfish desires, and turns into resentment and guilt. See how it goes? I'm not saying it has to be this way, only that's an example of attachment and how it effects emotions.

Ermine

I just seems odd that the noble truth was worded the way it was then...you'd think it would have reflected this

Jeffrey

resisting emotions is painful. Though sometimes it is the right thing to do. At the time. For example if you are afraid as a soldier and see your buddies wounded you don't tell him it looks horrible because he might go into shock which is very dangerous. Kind of an egghead explanation, but I am just saying sometimes the right thing to do is not a robotic execution, there is flex and a heart.

Jeffrey

The noble truths are in need of interpretation says something along what I just said.

nanadhaja

I just seems odd that the noble truth was worded the way it was then...you'd think it would have reflected this

Hi Ermine.
First of all I agree with the people above have said.
The first noble truth may seem difficult to understand at first but don't forget we have the other noble truths and the 8 fold path to help with our understanding of this.
Celebrate the birth of this new born by all means.
May this baby be happy and know the cause of happiness,may he and his family be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.May you be happy as well as all the others here on this forum.May all sentient beings be happy.
With metta

federica

Emotion (Joy) is Pain:

Classic case in point.
The moment you create a new life and give birth to a child, (Joy) you are effectively condemning that child to a Life of Suffering which will end in Death (pain).

See?
All emotions are Pain.

Jeffrey

Federica, but you are also creating a buddha if rebirth is true. And you are also creating a being which may have joys and sorrows. Life. The answer is not suicide. That being said I support family planning. And I support living with accidents.

sukhita

The essence of the first Noble Truth is not that everyone will suffer pain and anguish all the time, but rather, that everyone will be subject to such suffering, sooner or later. You buy your first car, you are overjoyed. After a while, the novelty wears away, you are now indifferent (neither joyful nor sad). And then it develops a serious (very costly) mechanical fault, now you feel awfull, really down-hearted, depressed, because you don't have the money to fix it. Now, consider the suffering related to ageing, sickness, and death! We are all subject to these changes and our emotions will change with them. Yes, there will be happy and joyfull moments in our lives, we can enjoy them, but we cannot hold onto them for ever. They will pass and be replaced by other types of emotions. Suffering will naturally be experienced by those who try to cling onto pleasant sensations. Cessation of suffering can be realized by knowing the transient nature of our experiences and emotions and training ourselves through meditation and mindfulness to "let go" and stay in the present moment. Please note, this is a very simplicitic view of the first two Noble Truths. A deeper understanding of these Truths will come with practice.

Cinorjer

I just seems odd that the noble truth was worded the way it was then...you'd think it would have reflected this

Well, that's because the Buddha didn't say the words you have learned as the Noble Truths, because he didn't speak the English language. He said the problem is Dukkha, not suffering. And, the Four Noble Truths are a thumbnail version of an entire sermon that tries to explain some deep concepts.

First, the Buddha says that birth, growing old, getting sick and death and the associated grief, sorrow, and heartbreak lead to Dukkha. In English, the best translation is: mortality. The fact that we are subject to all the ills of mortal life and death is a big part of Dukkha. Can anyone disagree with that?

Second, the Buddha says having to put up with what we dislike and not getting what we want out of life, or even getting what we want and trying to hang on to it is another big part of Dukkha. Can anyone disagree with that?

So, the Buddha didn't say that emotions were pain. He said emotions are part of Dukkha, as they are fleeting or impermanent. The joy of seeing a newborn child falls under the fleeting catagory. The sermon doesn't say that happiness or joy is bad or equal to pain. The emotion will fade, as is its nature, and if stained by the desire to hang onto that feeling or recapture that moment, lead right back to Dukkha.

[DeletedUser]

Emotion (Joy) is Pain:

Classic case in point.
The moment you create a new life and give birth to a child, (Joy) you are effectively condemning that child to a Life of Suffering which will end in Death (pain).

See?
All emotions are Pain.

aha! you may deny a tulku, the emanation of a deceased Tibetan master venerable the opportunity to bliss upon... :rockon: