Free will and samsara

twilly

Have I got it right? Is it samsara that conditions things? So if everything is conditioned, how do we have the freedom to choose?

ShiftPlusOne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#In_Buddhist_philosophy

Also, "free will" is a bit of an illusion itself. By the time you consciously realise you are want to do something, your brain has already made the choice. You're just responding to a complex set of inputs which are themselves responding to inputs and so on. It's all a complicated inter-connected system which makes it seem like you have made some sort of choice.

Tosh

So if we've no free will, we've no real responsibility for what we do, right?

upalabhava

You have the freedom to fabricate the conditions that determine future experiences. Since beginninglessness these conditions have been fabricated by you out of Ignorance and Desire; now, developing in Wisdom, you can make a Right Effort to create the conditions leading to Liberation and Enlightenment.

The Middle Path is between the extremes of Free Will and Determinism.

ShiftPlusOne

I see it like this.

If you have a frictionless pool table, and you do something to cause the balls to move. At any point of time, is their location random or pre-determined? You can't really come back a million years later and know what you're going to see, but by looking the system for a little while, you can sort of figure out what's happening and see the cause and effect (karma) at play. Now imagine that pool table is the universe and the balls are the atoms... it's not random, but it's certainly not pre-determined.

ShiftPlusOne

Tosh, karmic forces make sure you have responsibility for what you do.

Edit: Also, I said "a bit of an illusion". That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's just not what it seems.

Talisman

In quantum physics, a subatomic particle has an infinity range of possible locations and frequencies. There is no way of knowing deterministically what will happen at any time through any cause or interaction. There are simply probabilities of possible effects based on observable evidence.

To me, all aspects and qualities of any function, cause, or interaction in the universe has, can, will, and is portrayed in an infinite variety of ways. For example, the drama and calamity of a dying star is mirrored in the thunderous and catastrophic atomic explosion, and in the turbulent and emotional sundering of hearts in the death of a loved one.

In the same way, I feel that the infinite PROBABILITIES of the abstract quantum reality are manifest in the infinite POSSIBILITIES of human free will, choice, and interaction in ways inconceivable by the human brain.

Look to this moment and recognize that there is no question of whether or not there is a choice. The question is, what choice will you make? Will you choose to remain lost, ignorant, blind, and suffering? Or will you choose to sever the ties that bind you to delusion hatred and greed, realize the truth, and discover enlightenment, awakening, remedy, love, peace, happiness, freedom, nirvana for not only yourself but all living things?

DhammaDhatu

we have the freedom to let go

that is the extent of our ultimate or spiritual freewill

but our worldly freedom is merely choosing between inevitable necessities

for example, choosing between eating toast or muesli for breakfast is not really free will