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The Self???
What does it mean to say the illusion of the self? I can't seem to really understand what this means. That my being is just an illusion?
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"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us..."
Does your being exist?
Yes.
Does that being have a 'self', 'soul', or eternal, permanent entity?
No.
What is a being then?
A collection of conditioned aggregates.
What does that mean?
It means that there is a body, which is physical matter. There is also a mind, which is immaterial and made up of consciousness, perception, feeling (differentiating between pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral), and mental formations (thoughts). These five aggregates are complied together by past conditions into a 'being'. When you take these aggregates apart and observe them one by one you will find no permanent, lasting 'thing' behind them. This is anatta (not-self). When the conditions for this 'being' are exhausted, the aggregates fall apart and go their separate ways.
What gets reborn?
Nothing. The kamma (volitional actions of body, speech, and mind) of a person with kilesas (the defilements of greed, hatred, and delusion) condition the arising of a new being. Some call this a rebirth-linking consciousness that helps give life to the combination of male sperm and a female egg. It is not a 'self', but a stream of moments of consciousness, or kamma, or whatever you wish to call it. This new life is conditioned from the actions and energy of a past life. How about an example: When conditions bring together two hydrogen atoms (sperm) with an oxygen atom (egg), and add a catalyst (past kamma/rebirth-linking consciousness) - they condition the new life of 'water' (i.e. person). When the conditions for this life of water end, the aggregates of water will go their separate ways and condition new 'things' (i.e. beings).
Is your being an illusion then?
No. As I have said, you exist, but in essence there is no 'self'. The illusion is only the idea of a permanent entity within the aggregates of body and mind. You think and experience only because the conditions for those sense doors of eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin, and mind are present, not because of a 'self' or 'soul'.
I hope that Genryu and I have helped you to understand this idea a little better.
Jason
How about we have a self that's our "true self" which is what is reborn. When the Buddha talks about Annatta he means that the false Ego, our body and our mind are dis-solved. If nothing was reborn, then explain Arahants and Boddisattvas. These are individual beings....Amida?????
Oh, and the Dali Lama. How could he and others remember "stuff" if their was no idea of "person" or "true self" that was reborn????
Yipppeeee!!!! for me!!!! The Burden Sutta????
Esau
The great importance and magnitude of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra!
The single greatest importance of this Sutra is its repeating praise of the Atman! The Atman, or “True-Self” is spoken of as the “lasting”, the “light”, the “refuge”, etc. This particular sutra is extremely rare and not generally available as a book anywhere for any amount of money. This “King of all Mahayana Sutras” absolutely scares the Buddhists (so-called) to death because it is so extremely adamant in praising the Atman! A must read, and fantastic weapon to use in debate against the nihilistic pseudo-Buddhists! The age (very early) of this Sutra combined with its status (highest importance) and its message upon the Atman makes this particular Sutra a literal atom-bomb against modern Buddhism! Download the text and do word searches on "True-Self", or "self" in general.
The Teaching on the Self (Atman) in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra In the Nirvana Sutra, the Buddha upholds his earlier teaching that what the ordinary person regards as his or her "self" is in fact "not the Self" (anatman). That is to say, the five skandhas (constituent elements) which make up our "mundane ego" are not the essence of what we are. What are these skandhas? They are: 1) form/ matter; 2) feeling; 3) ideation/perception; 4) intention-related impulses; 5) consciousness. None of these, whether taken singly or together, constitutes our Self (atman).
However, according to the Buddha's final Mahayana teachings, as embodied in this Mahaparinirvana Sutra, there does exist a "true Self" (ATMAN). This is equated with the Buddhic Element (Buddha-dhatu) which resides deep within all beings, beneath the coverings of negative states of mind and character which have, since beginning less time, concealed this Supramundane essence from view.
Here follows a discussion from Chapter Four of our sutra (Tibetan version) between the Buddha's monks, who have long been meditating on ("cultivating") the notion of impermanence, suffering, and non-Self, and the Buddha, who now teaches them to balance their practice with the recognition that there is a Self, and that it is eternal and unchanging: When those monks heard that the Tathagata [Buddha] was going to pass into Parinirvana [Complete Nirvana, at death] , they became downhearted. Murmuring "How terrible!", their eyes brimming with tears, they bowed their heads at the Tathagata's feet and circumambulated him many times. Then they said this to the Blessed One [Bhagavat]: "Blessed One, you have related to us your teaching that suffering, impermanence, and non-Self is most excellent [just as] the footprint of an elephant is the greatest of all footprints. Thus, we shall eradicate our attachment to [the Realm of ] Desire, eradicate our attachment to [the Realm of ] Form, eradicate our attachment to the Formless [Realm], if we repeatedly cleave to, and cultivate, the idea of impermanence; all ignorance will be eradicated; all arrogance will be totally eliminated.
“… Blessed One, for example, a person might drink wine and become intoxicated, not even knowing who he is himself, unable to distinguish right and wrong, unable to recognize his mother, his sisters or his daughters; he falls head over heels and soils his whole body with urine and excrement; later he becomes sober and learns for some reason what befell him and reflects how useless alcohol is and decides to rid himself of all his sins. Then he thoroughly trains himself to regard the drinking of alcohol as utterly useless, and gives it up. Likewise, Blessed One, this world of living beings has spun around from time without beginning like a dancer. Whirling around, completely confused, they are unable to recognize their mothers, sisters or daughters, and so get lustful thoughts towards their mothers, sisters or daughters, and like those inebriated by alcohol, they experience suffering. Then those people who have a sense of shame, just like a drunk becoming sober, train themselves thoroughly to regard the world as useless and then totally leave behind its miseries.
“Moreover, just as a castor-oil shrub (eranda) does not have a core, likewise this body does not have a self (atman), a being (sattva), a life-essence (jiva), an individual (pudgala), manava, nara or an acting agent (kartr). In that way, we repeatedly cultivate the idea that a self does not exist. For example, just as it is pointless to plant even ten million (koti) dry husks, likewise is this body, which is devoid of a Self. For example, just as the flowers of wheat (valla-puspa) have no fragrance, likewise this body is devoid of a Self. In that manner do we cultivate repeatedly the idea that this body is devoid of a Self.
“The Blessed One has instructed us [in this way]: ‘Monks, all phenomena [dharma] are devoid of a Self. Practise thus! Those who practise thus will eliminate clinging to self (atma-graha). When clinging to self has been utterly eliminated, Nirvana will be attained.’ Blessed One, since all phenomena are thus devoid of a Self, we repeatedly cultivate the idea that a Self does not exist. Moreover, just as a bird leaves no tracks in the sky, so we shall detach ourselves from all types of [false] views when we have cultivated the idea that there is no self.”
The Blessed One asked, “Do you know how to cultivate that kind of meditation?” The monks replied, “Blessed One, if we were to cultivate anything contrary to the idea of suffering, impermanence and non-Self, we would be like a staggering drunk who sees the heavens, mountain peaks, the ground, the sun, the moon, trees and hills whirling around, though they are not moving; for those worldly beings who do not cultivate the idea of suffering, impermanence, and non-Self are just like drunks. [For this reason], Blessed One, we have cultivated it properly.”
The Blessed One said, “Monks, I shall explain the meaning of this example. With regard to the meaning of this verse, you do not clearly understand, ‘this is the meaning, this is the letter’. Just as a staggering drunk sees the heavens, mountain peaks, the ground, the sun, the moon, trees and hills whirling around, though they are not moving, in the same way do those who are utterly confused, ensnared by numerous kinds of distorted notions, adopt the idea that they are a Self, eternal, happy and pure. “Herein, ‘Self’ signifies the Buddha; ‘eternal’ signifies the Dharma-kaya [Body of Truth; quintessential being]; ‘happiness’ signifies Nirvana, and ‘pure’ is a synonym for the Dharma. Monks, you should not pride yourselves, arrogantly and haughtily saying, ‘We have cultivated the idea of suffering, impermanence, and non-Self’. When you engage thus in those three kinds of meditative cultivation, then for you to have cultivated that threefold meditative cultivation in the context of my Dharma is a worthless cultivation. These three types of meditative cultivation of suffering and so forth are contingent, most contingent [visista].
“To think of suffering as happiness is perverse, to think of happiness as suffering is perverse; to think of the impermanent as eternal [nitya] is perverse, to think of the eternal as impermanent is perverse; to think of the non-Self as the Self is perverse, to think of the Self as non-Self is perverse; to think of the impure as pure is perverse, to think of the pure as impure is perverse.
“You repeatedly cultivate these objects of cultivation without properly knowing these four perversities. You engage in meditative cultivation [treating] the eternal as though it were impermanent, that which has self as though it lacked self, and the pure as though it were impure. [Pronouncements regarding] happiness, the Self, eternity, and purity are found both amongst mundane people and amongst supramundane people, but these are each different. The letters [ = words] are mundane designations, while the meaning is supramundane Knowing [lokottara-jnana]."
Then the monks said this to the Blessed One, "Blessed One, since we have for a very long time repeatedly seen and repeatedly cultivated various cognitive distortions, such as these four ideas which the Tathagata has established in the correct manner, we now entreat you to tell us how we are to proceed ..."
"Monks, you ask me how you are to cultivate the ideas of suffering, impermanence, non-Self, and impurity? Monks, as an example: at the height of summer, some people dam a stream in the woods and, each bringing their bathing things, play in the water. One of them puts a genuine beryl gem [into the water] and then, because they all want to have that beryl, everybody puts aside their bathing things and climbs into the water. Thinking that a pebble or a piece of gravel is the gem, they grab it and cry out, 'I've got the gem! I've got the gem!', each holding it aloft. But when they get to the banks of the pool, they realise that it is not the gem after all. Then the very water of that pool gleams beautifully, as though with moonlight, by the glinting light of that gem. Seeing that beautiful gleaming, they say, 'Ah! There's the real gem!', and realise how magnificent it is. Then, somebody in their midst who is skilled in means and intelligent is actually able to get that gem. In the same way, monks, you have latched onto such extremes as 'everything is suffering', 'everything is without a Self', 'everything is impermanent', everything is impure' and repeatedly cultivate that. All of that is mistaken and worthless - just like the pebbles and gravel in the pond. Be like the person who is skilled in means! I declare that there is happiness, the Self, eternity, and purity in whatever you meditatively cultivate of all those extremes which you have latched onto; those four [extreme views] are perverse! Therefore, cultivate the idea that the reality [tattva] of the Dharma is eternal, like that gem. ...the Tathagata Arhat Samyaksambuddha [utter and total Buddha] ... the Supreme, the Teacher of Gods and Men, the Blessed Buddha appears in the world ... and then takes himself to all the heterodox teachers [tirthika] ... He utterly quells them all, utterly destroys them, and delights many kings. In order to curb [nigraha] the heterodox teachers, he says that there is no Self, no sattva [being], no jiva [life-essence], and no pudgala [individual]. The teachings about the Self by the heterodox teachers are like the letters bored [by chance, without understanding] by worms, and therefore I made known the teachings that all beings are devoid of a Self. Having proclaimed that the absence of Self is the word of the Buddha ... I also teach that there is a Self, after I have taught that all dharmas [phenomena] are devoid of Self, taking the occasion into consideration with regard to those who need to be trained and in order to benefit beings.
"The Self of the worldly, which they say is the size of a thumb or a mustard seed, is not like that. The concept of the Self of the worldly is also not like that. In this instance, it is said that all dharmas [things, phenomena] are devoid of self. [But actually] it is not true to say that all dharmas are devoid of the Self. The Self is Reality [tattva], the Self is unchanging [nitya], the Self is virtue [guna], the Self is eternal [sasvata], the Self is fixed [dhruva], the Self is peace [Siva]; ... the Tathagata teaches what is true. Let the four divisions of the assembly strive meditatively to cultivate that."
What is the meaning of the most important word in Buddhism, the Citta, in short?
The Citta is the ontological will, or metaphorically in the scriptural context of Buddhist doctrine (as well as the Upanishads too for that matter, which translates citta as "Pure-Consciousness"), is the “Light” which is unmanifest. “The light (joti) within one’s mind/will (citta) is the very Soul (attano)” [DN2-Att. 2.479]. The metaphysical nexus of purification in Buddhism is the non-empirical and pre-corporeal citta. As per Buddhism, the inchoate (self nescient) will (citta) is manifest as an attribution and self-sublimated, as the empirical consciousness (vinnana), the finest attribute of samsaric and empirical existence. In short, this ‘white-light’ Will (citta), when manifest upon ‘blue’ form is blue-vinnana (consciousness), or when manifest upon ‘red’ form, is red-vinnana (consciousness). The sati (recollection) and samadhi (assimilation) methodology of Buddhism is to make this primordially pure but inchoate Will (citta), choate (self-Knowing) such that further identification with its phenomenal attributes has been forever cut (bhava nirodha nibbanam).
Just as there is no Light (citta) in what is merely illumined (vinnana/consciousness) from afar, but merely En-illumined by this non-empirical Light, so to is the apex of Buddhism the misidentification with this causal nexus beginning with phenomenal consciousness (vinnana) by making the will (citta) self-choate by the erasure of nescience (avijja/avidya) thru means of gnosis and sati and samadhi methodologies. [12-1 Upadisa] “Just as a man (erroneously) looks upon his body placed in the sun as having the property of light (citta) in it, so, he looks upon the intellect (vinnana) pervaded by the reflection of Citta as the Self (inner-nature of the Citta).”
In summation, the Citta is nowhere as pertains the body, and certainly not the brain (as erroneously presumed by pseudo-Buddhist researchers), but is the unmanifest Light which constantly feeds light, or rather life, into this dead form of many constituents. We are to see our True-Selves (Svabhava) as this unmanifest Light, rather than its petty corporeal reflection/manifestation, being consciousness and its lower superstructure (the body).
1. Citta is the only thing which is said to obtain the state of “non-clinging” (anupada) “This is immortality, that being the liberated mind (citta) which does not cling (anupada) after anything” [MN 2.265].
2. Citta is the only thing which is said to obtain the state of being “taintless” (anasava) [DN 2.35, MN 1.501, MN 3.20, SN 3.45...etc].
3. Citta is the only thing which is said to obtain/is gathered in “the realm of immortality”: “he gathers his mind within the realm of Immortality (amataya dhatuya). This is tranquillity; this is that which is most excellent!” [MN 1.436]. “This is immortality, that being the liberated citta” [MN 2.265]. [AN 1.282] “He gathers the mind inside the immortal realm”.
4. Citta is the only thing which is said to be the basis (arammana) for Parinibbana. Said immediately after Gotama’s physical death: [DN 2.157] “No longer with (subsists by) in-breath nor out-breath, so is him (Gotama) who is steadfast in mind (citta), inherently quelled from all desires the mighty sage has passed beyond. With mind (citta) limitless (Brahma) he no longer bears sensations; illumined and unbound (Nibbana), his mind (citta) is definitely (ahu) liberated.” The taintless (anasava) mind (citta) being = parinirvana: [SN 3.45] “The mind (citta) being so liberated and arisen from defilements, one is fixed in the Soul as liberation, one is quelled in fixation upon the Soul. Quelled in the Soul one is unshakable. So being unshakable, the very Soul is thoroughly unbound Parinirvana).” “This said: ‘the liberated mind (citta) which does not cling’ means Nibbana” [MN2-Att. 4.68].
5. Citta is the only thing which is differentiated from the five aggregates (rupa/vedana/sanna/sankhara/vinnana): “Whatever form, feelings, perceptions, experiences, or consciousness there is (the five aggregates), these he sees to be without permanence, as suffering, as ill, as a plague, a boil, a sting, a pain, an affliction, as foreign, as otherness, as empty (suññato), as Selfless (anattato). So he turns his mind (citta, Non-aggregate) away from these; therein he gathers his mind within the realm of Immortality (amataya dhatuya). This is tranquillity; this is that which is most excellent!” [MN 1.436, AN 4.422]. [SN 3.234] The Aggregate Sutra. At Savatthi “Followers, the desire and lust for formations is a defilement of the citta, the desire and lust for feelings is a defilement of the citta, the desire and lust for cognition is a defilement of the citta, the desire and lust for experiences is a defilement of the citta, the desire and lust for vinnana is a defilement of the citta. But, followers, when one abandons the defilements of the citta regarding these five stations (aggregates), then ones citta inclines towards renunciation. Ones citta is made pliable and firm in renunciation by direct gnosis.” [MN 1.511] “For a long time I have been cheated, tricked and hoodwinked by my citta. For when grasping, I have been grasping onto form, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto feelings, , for when grasping, I have been grasping onto perceptions, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto experiences, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto consciousness.”
6. Citta is the only thing which, when perfected by samadhi and panna, is = Soul (Attan): "Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means one is supremely-fixed within the mind (citta)” [Silakkhandhavagga-Att. 1.168]. “'The purification of one’s own mind', this means the light (joti) within one’s mind (citta) is the very Soul (attano)” [DN2-Att. 2.479]. [AN 2.6] "Him who is Lord of the mind (citta) possessed with supernormal faculties and quelled, that one is called 'fixed-in-the-Soul' (thitattoti)”. [AN 1.196] "With mind (citta) emancipated from ignorance…this designates the Soul has become Brahma”. [MN 1.213] "The collected and quelled mind is the Supreme Soul”. "Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means steadfast in ones True-nature (thitasabha'vo)" [Tikanipa’ta-Att. 3.4].
7. Citta is the only thing which is said to be the basis/medium for the recollection of past lives: “directs his mind (citta) to the recollection of past lives” [DN 1.81].
8. Citta is the only thing which is said to be “its own foundation/not based in anything” (anarammana), therein philosophically anything which is “a thing in itself”, i.e. “without a foundation of its own” is hence the basis for marking the mind as the Absolute (when wisdom and samadhi are culminated): [Pati-A 2.478] “The sovereign-mind which is its own support (an-without + a’rammana=support) means the sovereign-mind is the foundation”. [Dh-A 4.26] “Ones own mind is the foundation of the Soul”. [MN-A 2.297] “Nibbana is the foundation, that being the emancipated-mind (citta)”.
[Sn-A 2.583] “Emancipation is meant the foundation, that being the establishment of the emancipated mind”.[Theragatha-A 1.138] “Supramundane samadhi is the foundation of Nibbana, that being the exceedingly quelled mind (citta)”
9. Citta is the only thing which is compared to the “indestructible” diamond: [AN 1.124] “What, followers, is a being that has a diamond-mind (vajiru’pamacitto)? That one who has destroyed the taints (asavas) and has both a liberated mind (citta) and is liberated by wisdom. Just as there is nothing which a diamond cannot cut, be it stone or gem; so to is one with a diamond-mind who has destroyed the taints and has both a liberated mind (citta) and is liberated by wisdom. This is one who possesses a diamond-mind.”
10. The entire Aryan path itself is said to both being and end with the citta (mind) as its basis: [MN 1.197] “Followers, the Brahma life is not lived for sake of gains, honours, or acclaim; nor is it lived for virtuousness, nor for absorptions, nor for gnosis and insight. This Brahma life is lived for the sole pre-eminent purpose of emancipation of the mind alone, which is the quintessential final core”. [MN 1.301] “What is samadhi (the culmination of the entire Aryan path) for? Samadhi, friend, is for making the mind (citta) sovereign”.
11. The citta is the only thing which is said to go to the light/heaven realm: [SN 5.370] “His mind goes heaven-bound to auspiciousness.”
12. Most importantly, the citta is the only thing which is said to obtain freedom from nescience/ignorance/agnosis (avijja): [MN 1.279] “When his steadfast mind was perfectly purified, perfectly illumined, stainless, utterly perfect, pliable, sturdy, fixed, and everlastingly determinate then he directs his mind towards the gnosis of the destruction of defilements. Knowing thus and seeing thus his mind is emancipated from sensual desires, his mind is emancipated from becoming, his mind is emancipated from ignorance.”
13. The only proper noun which is said to obtain the state of emancipation (vimutta) is the citta (citta vimutta)- common Pali term.
14. As per the ‘superior’ path VS. the ‘inferior’ path, the mind is the sole basis for the ‘superior’ path: “ariyacittassa anasavacittassa ariyamaggasamangino” [MN 3.72] “The Aryan citta, the taintless citta; this is that with which the Aryan path is endowed with”.
15. The citta is the only thing which is deemed “the highest absolute”: [MN 1.298] “Emancipation of the mind is the highest absolute.” [MN 1.298] “Of all types of unmanifest emancipations of mind, the fixed unshakable emancipation of the mind is the highest supernal.”
16. The entire basis for Buddhism itself is said to be for/ as regards the citta: “The purification of one’s own mind (citta); this is the Doctrine of the Buddha” [DN 2.49].“How is it that one is called a ‘Buddha’?...gnosis that the mind (citta) is purified (visuddham)…such is how one is deemed a ‘Buddha’.” [MN 2.144] [AN 1.6] "I do not have, followers, insight into anything or any dharma which, when made to become and made to expand that brings greater bliss than the mind (citta). The mind, followers, when made to become and made to expand, brings the greatest bliss." [SN 1.26] Those followers absorbed, their minds (citta) flawless having assimilated the Soul; a charioteer (Soul) in control of the reigns, sages like them guard this supranormal-power!
17. The citta is the only thing which is deemed to achieve ‘freedom from becoming (bhava)’. All thing “as become must pass. The borne, the become, the made, the create has no other fate than to pass just as they have arises”. The philosophical implication that the citta can transcend causation/becoming cannot be denied. "My mind (citta) is emancipated from desire (karma), emancipated from becoming (bhava), emancipated from nescience/ignorance (avijja), ‘Emancipation! Emancipation alas!’…there exists no fruit more exquisite and perfect that this." [DN 1.84]
Citta is the Absolute
The mind is the absolute as illuminated in scripture time and again: [MN 1.197] “Followers, the Brahma life is not lived for sake of gains, honours, or acclaim; nor is it lived for virtuousness, nor for absorptions, nor for gnosis and insight. This Brahma life is lived for the sole pre-eminent purpose of emancipation of the mind alone, which is the quintessential final core.” [DN 2.81] “Through perfection of wisdom’s fulfilment the mind is emancipated from all defilements. That is-desire defilements, becomings defilements, and ignorance defilements.” [DN 2.233] “The light of ones mind.” [SN 5.158] “Maha’puriso, Maha’puriso I hear said venerable. What pray tell does Mahapuriso mean? A mind emancipated having assimilated the Soul (vimuttacittatta’), I say Shariputra, this is a Mahapuriso. Without mind emancipated having assimilated the Soul Shariputra, one is not a Maha’puriso.” [AN 1.282] “He gathers the mind inside the immortal realm.” [MN 1.36] The mind is originally pure.
[MN 1.213] “Friend Shariputra, a follower delights in solitariness, and in delighting in solitariness he tranquilizes the mind in yoking it to the very Soul, he does not neglect his Jhanas, he is endowed with insights, and perfectly devoid of the profane.” [MN 1.235] “A follower who has an emancipated mind possesses three transcendental qualities: transcendental illumination, transcendental mastery of the light, transcendental liberation.” [MN 1.239] “When suffering and feelings arise upon him, it does not penetrate into his mind since his mind is Soul become.” [MN 1.249] “When my steadfast mind was perfectly purified, perfectly illumined, stainless, utterly perfect, pliable, sturdy, fixed, and everlastingly determinate then I directed my mind towards the gnosis of the destruction of defilements. I knew
thusly as it truly was such that: This is suffering, this is the source of suffering, this is the subjugation of suffering and this is the path of illumination leading away from all suffering.” [MN 1.249] “When my discourse is completed, Aggivessana, I make absorbed my mind upon the sign of my very Soul wherein I remain fixed, am subdued, and make it as unto this singleness. This is the bliss I perpetually reside within.” [MN 1.279] “When his steadfast mind was perfectly purified, perfectly illumined, stainless, utterly perfect, pliable, sturdy, fixed, and everlastingly determinate then he directs his mind towards the gnosis of the destruction of defilements. Knowing thus and seeing thus his mind is emancipated from sensual desires, his mind is emancipated from becoming, his mind is emancipated from ignorance.” [MN 1.296] “Friend, how many contingencies are there for the perfection of making unmanifest the emancipation of mind? Two contingencies: turning away from determinately manifest phenomena and turning towards the unmanifest realm.” [MN 1.297] “What friend is emancipation of the mind by means of devoid ness (shunyata)? Herein a follower has gone to a clearing in the forest and the root of a tree and investigates thusly: ‘This is devoid (sunna) of the Soul and what the Soul subsists upon.” This is called emancipation of the mind by means of devoidness.” [MN 1.298] “Emancipation of the mind is the highest absolute.” [MN 1.298] “Of all types of unmanifest emancipations of mind, the fixed unshakable emancipation of the mind is the highest supernal.” [MN 1.301] “When the mind is made to become, one gains Such ness of Soul.” [Pat.isambhida’magga-Att. 1.236] “To bring to unification the mind is to be fixed upon the Soul.” [Suttanipata Att. 2.410] “Mind inter-sighted is the Soul.” [Theragatha Att. 2.151] “The mind is the Soul.” [Itivuttaka Att. 1.168] “The Supreme Soul is the mind yoked to steadfastness; the steadfast mind is dedicated to the Soul.” [Itivuttaka Att. 1.168] “The Supreme Soul is the Soul.” [Sagathavagga Att. 1.237] “The Soul is the mind.” [Sagathavagga Att. 1.112] “The mind is the Soul.”
[SN 3.152] “On account of the mind being defiled, sattas are defiled; on account of mind being pure, so too are sattas purified.” [AN 1.147] “How is one Lord of the Soul? He has made mind (citta) sovereign and quelled, so is he Lord of the Soul, for he dwells in the purity of the Soul. This, followers, is how one is deemed ‘Lord of the Soul’.” [AN 1.207] “The Aryan disciple keeps the Brahma-Sabbath. He dwells in Brahma. Owing to Brahma is he mind (citta) is calmed, that blissfulness arises and his mind is wiped clean of defilements.” [AN 2.6] “Him who is Lord of the mind (citta) possessed with supernormal faculties and quelled, that One is called ‘fixed-in-the-Soul.’” [AN 4.402] “When, followers, when ones mind is thoroughly ripe with wisdom, he can say that birth is destroyed, the Brahma-faring has been fulfilled, what must be done has been done, for there is naught but this very Soul.” [Udana #47] “The entirety of everything is encompassed by the mind, there is nothing which exists higher or more beloved than ones Soul. Since there is not other dearer than ones Soul, him who holds love of the Soul is without harm.” [Itivuttaka #115] “One is supremely liberated of mind (citta) who has Samma’ gnosis. Emancipated he is That, verily That (Brahma).” [SN 5.410] “I proclaim there is absolutely no difference between a layperson with a mind (citta) which is liberated and that mind of a bhikkhu which has been liberated for a century. [Saggathavagga-Att. 1.272] “Develop (mind upon) signlessness means: the sign of permanence is made known of the Soul, is the meaning of Vipassana signlessness.” [SN 1.188] “I’m burning alive with sensual lusts! My mind (citta) is engulfed by this inferno; pray tell me how I might unbind it, of out pity for me Gotama.” It is through an inversion of perception that your mind (citta) is engulfed. In flexure (your mind [invert, revert upon itself]) away from the signs of the pleasing which are connected with taints. Envision experiences (phenomena) as otherness, as suffering, as not the Soul. Unbind (quench) the mighty fire of lusts such that you are not consumed again and again (transmigration). Develop the mind (citta) upon (gnosis) of the foul (the body), for this is sovereignty wherein one is supremely quelled; recollect (hinder to, recollection of before ness) that which is before the body, being disgusted with it (body). Develop this signlessness…and you shall be on who fares within equanimity.” [MN 3.280] “Rahula’s mind (citta), by not clinging (after phenomena) was liberated from all taints. On the spot arose the eye of Dhamma that: “the all (phenomena) which is of the nature to arise, is also of the nature to fall prey to subjugation.”
[Tikanipa’ta-Att. 3.4] “Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means steadfast in ones True-nature (thitasabha'vo).” [KN 4.82] “Whether he walks, stands, sits, or lays on his side; so long as his mind (citta) is sovereign upon his very Soul, he is thoroughly quelled.” [Theragatha-Att. 1.51] “Parinirvana is to be steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti).” [Silakkhandhavagga-Att. 1.168] “Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means one is supremely-fixed within the mind (suppatitthitacitto)” [SN 1.26] “Those followers absorbed, their minds (citta) flawless having assimilated the Soul; a charioteer (Soul) in control of the reigns, sages like them guard this supranormal-power!” [Jataka-2-1341] “The Soul is Charioteer.” [AN 2.6] “Him who is Lord of the mind (citta) possessed with supernormal faculties and quelled, that One is called 'fixed-in-the-Soul' (thitattoti).” [AN 1.196] “With mind (citta) emancipated from ignorance…this designates the Soul has become Brahma.” [AN 1.124] “What, followers, is a being who has a diamond-mind (vajiru’pamacitto)? That one who has destroyed the taints (asavas) and has both a liberated mind (citta) and is liberated by wisdom. Just as there is nothing which a diamond cannot cut, be it stone or gem; so to is one with a diamond-mind who has destroyed the taints and has both a liberated mind (citta) and is liberated by wisdom. This is one who possesses a diamond-mind.” [AN 1.124] “What, followers, is a being who has a mind of Light (vijjupamacitto)? He comprehends things as they are or have become; that being suffering and the path leading to the subjugation of suffering. Just as a flash of light in pitch of night illuminates things; so to is him who possesses holy vision into the nature of things are they are or have become such that he comprehends suffering and the path leading to the subjugation of suffering. This is one who possesses a mind of Light (vijjupamacitto).” [AN 1.6] “I do not have, followers, insight into anything or any dharma which, when made to become and made to expand that brings greater bliss than the mind (citta). The mind, followers, when made to become and made to expand, brings the greatest bliss.” [AN1.10] “The mind (citta) is primordially luminous, but due to defilements which come from without, it is defiled. The mind (citta) is primordially luminous once again, when defilements which come from without are cleansed from it.”
[MN 1.197] “Followers, this Brahma-faring is lived for the sole pre-eminent purpose of emancipation of the mind (citta) alone, which is the quintessential final core.” [MN 1.213] “The collected and quelled mind is the Supreme Soul.” [MN 1.301] “What is samadhi (the culmination of the entire Aryan path) for? Samadhi, friend, is for making the mind (citta) sovereign.” [SN 5.73] “What is the one benefit, Master Gotama, which you exist for? The one thing that the Tathagata exists for is the fruit and emancipation by gnosis, illumination (vijja).” [MN 2.265] “This is immortality that being the liberated mind (citta) which does not cling (after anything).” [MN2-Att. 4.68] “This said: ‘the liberated mind (citta) which does not cling’ means Nibbana.” [Silakkhandhavagga-Att. 1.168] “Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means one is supremely-fixed within the mind.” [SN 1.233] “Your mind is supremely emancipated, like the full moon on the fifteenth day in dark of night!” [SN 3.83] “Attained the steadfast Soul, their mind (citta) is calm; they’re cleansed of the entire world, taintless they have become Brahma.” [DN2-Att. 2.479] “'The purification of one’s own mind', this means the light (joti) within one’s mind (citta) is the very Soul (attano).” [DN 2.49] “The purification of one’s own mind (citta); this is the Doctrine of the Buddha.” [MN 2.144] “How is it that one is called a ‘Buddha’?...gnosis that the mind (citta) is purified (visuddham)…such is how one is deemed a ‘Buddha’.” [SN 5.154, DN 2.100, SN 3.42, DN 3.58, SN 5.163] “The Tathagata is without the mark of all things, he dwells upwards within the sign less inflexured (mind upon itself) mind (citta). There within, Ananda, dwell with the Soul as your Light, with the Soul as your refuge, with none other as refuge.”
That's what I don't get.
It seems some flavors of Buddhism speak of an essense that is reborn or reincarnated that remains true to oneself because of karma and such.
You do certain things in this "pass" and it will effect how you come back in the next "pass".
But then other state that there is no self and nothing continues.
Is this just a difference in schools of Buddhism?
-bf
That's easy for you to say!
Seriously, tho', thank you Esau. Much to read, mark and inwardly digest.
My understanding of it all is that you when you die, that's it. You have no enduring soul but you merge back into the Universal Mind, Buddha Consciousness, call it what you will. Like a wave melting back into the ocean as I've heard it described.
The Karmic debt (or credit) that you accrued is also merged in as well. Part of this Universal Karmic debt is then allocated to another existence to work through when it is born.
This continues onwards and onwards untill all Karmic debt is finally balanced - which will be the time when all existences have realised enlightenment.
I don't think I've explained this too well as I'm still trying to get my head round the whole concept! :crazy:
Very interesting interpretation of what the Buddha taught. I would have to say, however, that in some of your quotes, I would disagree with the translations presented. I do not personally believe that they represent what the Buddha truly taught. I would like to refer to this passage from SN XXII.96:
“...Monk, there is no materiality whatsoever, no feeling…no perception…no formations of the mind…no consciousness whatsoever that is permanent, everlasting, eternal, unchanging or identically abiding for eternity.
Then the Bleesed One took up a bit of cowdung in his hand and said to that monk: “Monk, there is not even this much of permanent, everlasting, eternal, unchanging individual self-existence (attabháva), identically abiding for eternity. If even this much of permanent, everlasting, eternal, unchanging individual self-existence, identically abiding for eternity could be found, then this living the renounced life for the eradication of suffering would not be conceivable. But because there is not even this much of permanent, everlasting, eternal, unchanging individual self-existence, identically abiding for eternity, this living the renounced life for the eradication of suffering is conceivable...”
And also these three lines from Dhp XXII:
“Sabbe sankhárá aniccá”ti, yadá paññáya passati; atha nibbindati dukkhe, esa maggo visuddhiyá."
“ When you see with discernment, ‘All conditioned things are impermanent’; you grow disenchanted with stress. This is the path to purity."
“Sabbe sankhárá dukkhá”ti, yadá paññáya passati; atha nibbindati dukkhe, esa maggo visuddhiyá."
“ When you see with discernment, ‘All conditioned things are suffering’; you grow disenchanted with stress. This is the path to purity."
“Sabbe dhammá anattá”ti, yadá paññáya passati; atha nibbindati dukkhe, esa maggo visuddhiyá."
“ When you see with discernment, ‘All things, manifest or un-manifest, are not-self’; you grow disenchanted with stress. This is the path to purity.” - 277-79
Citta (Mind; heart; state of consciousness) is not a soul. In the Girimananda Sutta the Buddha explains ten contemplations including:
""And what Ánanda is contemplation of anattá? Herein, Ánanda, a monk having gone to the forest or to the foot of a tree or to a lonely place contemplates thus: 'The eye is not the self; visible objects are not the self; the ear is not the self; sounds are not the self; the nose is not the self; smells are not the self; the tongue is not the self; tastes are not the self; the body is not the self; bodily contacts (tangible objects) are not the self; the mind is not the self; mental objects are not the self.' Thus he dwells contemplating not self in these internal and external bases. This, Ánanda, is called contemplation of anattá."
We are all free to believe and practice as we wish, but I strongly feel that to claim only modern Buddhism teaches the absence of a self is a confused and ill-informed view. This is of course only my opinion, but I would certainly double-check those translations.
Jason
I hate to be a stick-in-the-mud, but I do not believe that that is what the Buddha taught either.
Jason
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=12999&hl=
Wow, this Zenmar dude sounds more like a Sith from Star Wars than a failed student.:ninja:
Anyways, thanks for the helpful posts.
If he weren't so obviously disturbed and rather sad, yes he would lol.
I agree this may not be what the Buddha taught. Though then we don't have any of his original words do we. We have by belief translations by his Bhikkus on what the Buddha Dharma actually is.
The Buddha himself reportedly taught 108 ways, and I believe he always used different words/concepts that his target audience would understand. As for Attman or lack thereof I think its up to personal interpretation of what the suttas are trying to convey that will once and forever answer this puzzling question.
Namaste,
Esau
So how does the whole karma thing work then? I get the no soul side of things and rebirth but how does Karma fit in?
I think I'll just continue with my daily practice and do the best I can without worrying about what happens when I die. After all, who really knows what waits for us?!
One of my favourite stories was the one about the monk that asked his Master what happens after we die.
The Master said he didn't know to which the monk said "but you're a Zen Master"
The Master said "Yes, but not a dead one!"
Frizzer, I am completely, entirely, utterly, thoroughly, totally in agreement with you on all points! Oh that we could ALL admit we don't have all the answers.....!
If you really get Annatman and rebirth, you also get karma. They go together. Karma is not fate or punishment. Things come into being through causes and conditions. When those causes and conditions cease, then those things cease too. If those causes and conditions continue - then the process' they've given rise to continue too. Thus, one moment gives rise to another, one life to another, but there is no 'thing' that carries on from moment to moment, nor is there need to invent any such thing. Buddhism sees people as process' rather than things, which in itself is liberating. Karma describes how volitional action, based on the delusion of a permanant and enduring self, creates both cause and effect and thus perpetuates the cycle of Samsara, the cycle of suffering. There's a pretty good explanation here by the Therevada teacher Ajahn Jagaro:
Non-Self and Karma
Your statement about not worrying too much about such things intellectually though is actually an important point. These are not doctrines for a person to believe. The only thing that a Buddhist is required to have faith in is that what other people have done, you as a human being can also do. And that is to awaken. The fact that thousands of men and women have realised their true natures and awakened, from the Buddha's time right down to today, means that you too can awaken. And that you can prove to yourself through Buddhist practice. At some point, just as those thousands of other people have done, you will awaken and know for yourself the reality of karma, of non-self. You will know it, as the Zen phrase has it, just as you know the taste of water having drunk it.
Whether you believe in non-self or karma isn't the point. In fact, the fewer beliefs the better. The point is that with practice, you come to your own understanding of the reality of karma, of what happens when we die, and non-self. And that answer will be one that isn't purely intellectual and second hand, but your own, concretely realised in your bones and that doesn't have to wait until you're dead, but can be realised in this lifetime. In fact, the difficulty isn't in reaching that realisation but in learning to integrate it into daily life and that's what takes the longest time.
:uphand:
http://www.attan.com/
Warning: This site contains offensive and hateful language about all Buddhist sects.
I do not wish to be seen as being too judgemental, but I find that site to be full of Wrong Views, to put it nicely. If anything though, perhaps some good will come out of this. Perhaps people will be more encouraged to learn how to translate Pali themselves, and find out what these wonderful texts truly say.
Jason
A very relevant and important Sutta in the Pali Canon is the Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta. I encourage everyone to take the time and read this:
Thus have I heard:
Once the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's grove, Anathapindika's park. At that time a pernicious view had arisen in a bhikkhu named Sati, the son of a fisherman: "As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else." Then many bhikkhus heard that this pernicious view had arisen in the bhikkhu named, Sati the son of a fisherman: "As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else."
Then those bhikkhus approached the bhikkhu Sati, the son of a fisherman, and asked: "Friend, Sati, is it true, that such an pernicious view has arisen to you: ‘As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else’?"
"Yes, friends, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else."
Then those bhikkhus thinking to dissuade the bhikkhu Sati from that pernicious view, cross examined him, asked for reasons and discussed with him: "Friend, Sati do not say that, do not misrepresent the Blessed One. The Blessed One did not say that. The Blessed One has shown in various ways, that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause there is no arising of consciousness." Even when so much was said, he held on to his pernicious view tenaciously and would not give it up and said: "As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else."
When the bhikkhus could not dissuade the bhikkhu Sati from that pernicious view, they approached the Blessed One, paid homage, sat to one side and said: "Venerable sir, this pernicious view has arisen in a bhikkhu named Sati, the son of a fisherman: "As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else." Then we approached the bhikkhu Sati and asked him: "Friend, Sati, is it true, that such an pernicious view has arisen to you: ‘As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else’?"
"Venerable sir, the bhikkhu Sati said to us: "Yes, friends, ‘as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else’." Then we bhikkhus, thinking to dissuade the bhikkhu Sati from that pernicious view, cross examined him, asked for reasons and discussed with him: 'Friend, Sati do not say that, do not misrepresent the Blessed One. The Blessed One did not say that. The Blessed One has shown in various ways, that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause there is no arising of consciousness'." Even when we cross questioned, asked for reasons and studied together with him, he held on to his pernicious view tenaciously and would not give it up. As we could not dissuade the bhikkhu Sati from that pernicious view, we came to inform you about it."
Then the Blessed One addressed a certain bhikkhu and said, "Come bhikkhu, in my name, call the bhikkhu Sati, tell him the Teacher wants him." That bhikkhu consented and approached the bhikkhu Sati and told him, "Friend, the Teacher wants you." The bhikkhu Sati said "Yes, friend" and approached the Blessed One, paid homage and sat to one side.
Then the Blessed One said: "Sati, is it true, that such an pernicious view has arisen to you. ‘As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness tansmigrates through existences, not anything else’?"
"Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else."
"Sati, what is that conscciousness?"
"Venerable sir, it is that which feels and experiences, that which reaps the results of good and evil actions done here and there."
"Foolish man, to whom do you know me having taught the Dhamma like this. Haven’t I taught, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet you, foolish man, on account of your wrong view, you misrepresent me, as well as destroy yourself and accumulate much demerit, for which you will suffer for a long time."
Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: "Bhikkhus, what do you think, has this this bhikkhu Sati, son of a fisherman, learned anything from this dispensation?" "No, venerable sir."
When this was said the bhikkhu Sati became silent, unable to reply back, and sat with drooping shoulders and eyes turned down. Then the Blessed One, knowing that the bhikkhu Sati had become silent, unable to reply back, and was sitting with drooping shoulders and with eyes turned down, told him: "Foolish man, you will be known on account of this pernicious view; now I will question the bhikkhus on this."
Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: "Bhikkhus, do you too know of this Teaching, the wrong view of the bhikkhu Sati, the son of a fisherman, on account of which he misrepresents us and also destroys himself and accumulates much suffering?"
"No, venerable sir. In various ways we have been taught that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause there is no arising of consciousness."
"Good, bhikkhus! Good that you know the Dhamma taught by me. In various ways I have taught that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, this bhikkhu Sati, son of a fisherman, by holding to this wrong view, misrepresents us and destroys himself and accumulates much demerit, and it will be for his suffering for a long time.
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. If consciousness arises on account of eye and forms, it is reckoned as eye consciousness. If on account of ear and sounds it arises, it is reckoned as ear consciousness. If on account of nose and smells it arises, it is reckoned as nose consciousness. If on account of tongue and tastes it arises, it is reckoned as tongue consciousness. If on account of body and touch it arises, it is reckoned as body consciousness. If on account of mind and mind-objects it arises, it is reckoned as mind consciousness. Bhikkhus, just as a fire is reckoned based on whatever that fire burns - fire ablaze on sticks is a stick fire, fire ablaze on twigs is a twig fire, fire ablaze on grass is a grass fire, fire ablaze on cowdung is a cowdung fire, fire ablaze on grain thrash is a grain thrash fire, fire ablaze on rubbish is a rubbish fire - so too is consciousness reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. In the same manner consciousness arisen on account is eye and forms is eye consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of ear and sounds is ear consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of nose and smells is nose conscioussness. Consciousness arisen on account of tongue and tastes is taste consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of body and touch is body consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of mind and mind-objects is mind consciousness.
"Bhikkhus, do you see, This has arisen?" "Yes, venerable sir". "Do you see it arises supported by That?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, Do you see if the support ceases, the arising too ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, when you are not sure whether something has arisen do doubts arise?" "Yes, venerable sir." "When you are not sure why something has arisen, do doubts arise?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, when you are not sure that with ceasing of a certain support, that the arisen too would cease, do doubts arise?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, do your doubts fade when you see with right wisdom, that something has arisen?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do your doubts fade when you see with right wisdom, that something arises with a support?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do your doubts fade when you sees with right wisdom that with the cessation of its supports, the arisen also ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, This has arisen - are your doubts dispelled about that?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, This has arisen with That as support - are your doubts dispelled about that?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, when that support ceases, the arising too ceases - are your doubts dispelled about that?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, do you clearly see, as it really is, with right wisdom, this is arising?." "Yes,venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do you clearly see, with right wisdom, that this arises supported?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do you clearly see, with right wisdom, that when the support ceases the arising too ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkkhus, as purified and bright as this view is, if you covet, cherish, treasure and take pride in it, do you understand this Dhamma as comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up [i.e. crossing over] and not for the purpose of grasping?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, as purified and bright as this view is, if you do not covet, cherish, treasure and take pride in it, would you then know this Dhamma as comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up [i.e. crossing over] and not for the purpose of grasping?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, these are the four finds of supports for the maintence of beings that have arisen and as help for those seeking birth. What four? First is material food, coarse or fine; the second is contact; mental volition is the third and consciousness is the fourth.
"Bhikkhus, from what do these four supports originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"These four supports originate, rise, take birth and develop from craving.
"Bhikkhus, from what does craving originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"Craving originates, rises, takes birth and develops from feelings.
"Bhikkhus, from what do feelings originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"Feelings originate, rise, take birth and develop from contact.
"Bhikkhus, from what does contact originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"Contact originates, rises, takes birth and develops from the sixfold sense base.
"Bhikkhus, from what does the sixfold sense base originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"The sixfold sense base originates, rises, takes birth and develops from name and form.
"Bhikkhus, from what do name and form originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"Name and form originate, rise, take birth and develop from consciousness.
"Bhikkhus, from what does consciousness originate, rise, take birth and develop?.
"Consciousness originates rises, takes birth and develops from [volitional] formations.
"Bhikkhus, from what do [volitional] formations originate, rise, take birth and develop?
"[Volitional] Formations originate, rise, take birth and develop from ignorance.
"Thus bhikkhus, from ignorance arise [volitional] formations, from [volitional] formations consciousness, from consciousness name and form, from name and form the sixfold sense base, from the sixfold sense base contact, from contact feelings, from feelings craving, from craving clinging, from clinging being, from being birth, from birth old age, sickness, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress arise. Thus is the arising of this whole mass of dukkha.
"Bhikkhus, it is said, decay and death arise from birth. Do decay and death arise from birth or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, decay and death, arise from birth. We understand it thus: Decay and death arise from birth."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, birth arises from being. Does birth arise from being or not or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, birth arises from being. We understand it thus: Birth arises from being."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, being arises from clinging. Does being arise from clinging or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, being rises from clinging. We understand it thus: Being arises from clinging."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, clinging arises from craving. Does clinging arise from craving or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, craving arises from clinging. We understand it thus: Craving arises from clinging."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, craving arises from feelings. Does craving arise from feelings or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, craving arises from feelings. We understand it thus: Craving arises from feelings."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, feelings arise from contact. Do feelings arise from contact or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, feelings arise from contact. We understand it thus: Feelings arise from contact."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, contact arises from the sixfold sense base. Does contact arise from the sixfold sense base or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, contact arises from the sixfold sense base. We understand it thus: Contact arises from the sixfold sense base."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, the sixfold sense base arises from name and form. Does the sixfold sense base arise from name and form or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, the sixfold sense base arises from name and form. We understand it thus: the sixfold sense base arises from name and form."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, name and form arise from consciousness. Do name and form arise from consciousness or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, name and form arise from consciousness. We understand it thus: Name and form arise from consciousness."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, consciousness arise from [volitional] formations. Does consciousness arise from [volitional] formations or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, consciousness arises from [volitional] formations. We understand it thus: Consciousness arises from [volitional] formations."
"Bhikkhus, it is said, [volitional] formations arise from ignorance. Do [volitional] formations arise from ignorance or not, or how does it happen here?" "Venerable sir, [volitional] formations arise from ignorance. We understand it thus: [Volitional] Formations arise from ignorance."
"Good, Bhikkhus! You say this and I also say it. Thus when this is present, that happens. When this arises, that arise. That is, because of ignorance, [volitional] formations arise. Because of [volitional] formations, consciousness arises. Because of consciousness, name and form arise. Because of name and form, the sixfold sense base arises. Because of the sixfold sense base, contact arises. Because of contact, feelings arise. Beccause of feelings, craving arises. Because of craving, clinging arises. Because of clinging, being arises. Because of being, birth arises. Because of birth old age, sickness, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress arise. Thus arises the complete mass of dukkha.
"But with the complete cessation of ignorance, [volitional] formations cease. With the complete cessation of [volitional] formations, consciousness ceases. With the cessation of consciousness, name and form cease. With the cessation of name and form, the sixfold sense base ceases. With the cessation of the sixfold sense base, contact ceases. With the cessation of contact, feelings ceases. With the cessation of feelings, craving ceases. With the cessation of craving, clinging ceases. With the cessation of clinging, being ceases. With the cessation of being, birth ceases. With the cessation of birth, old age, sickness, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress cease. Thus is the complete cessation of dukkha.
"'When birth ceases old age, sickness and death cease' so it was said. Bhikkhus, do old age, sickness and death cease when birth ceases, or do they not, or how does it happen." "Venerable sir, when birth ceases, old age, sickness and death cease. Thus we understand it: 'when birth ceases, old age, sickness and death cease.'"
"'When being ceases, birth ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does birth cease when being ceases, or does it not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when being ceases, birth ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When being ceases, birth ceases.'"
"'When clinging ceases, being ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does clinging cease when being ceases, or does it not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when clinging ceases, being ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When clinging ceases, being ceases.'"
"'When craving ceases, clinging ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does craving cease when clinging ceases, or does it not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when craving ceases, clinging ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When craving ceases, clinging ceases.'"
"'When feeling ceases, craving ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does craving cease when feeling ceases, or does it not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when feeling ceases, craving ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When feeling ceases, craving ceases.'"
"'When contact ceases, feeling ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does feeling cease when contact ceases or does it not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when contact ceases, feeling ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When contact ceases, feeling ceases.'"
"'When the sixfold sense base ceases, contact ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does the sixfold sense base cease when contact ceases, or does it not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when the sixfold sense base ceases, contact ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When the sixfold sense base cease, contact ceases.'"
"'When name and form cease, the sixfold sense base ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does the sixfold sense base cease when name and form cease or does it not, or how do they happen?" "Venerable sir, when name and form cease, the sixfold sense base ceases. Thus we understand it: 'When name and form cease, the sixfold sense base ceases.'"
"'When consciousness ceases, name and form cease' so it was said. Bhikkhus, do name and form cease when consciousness ceases, or do they not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when consciousness ceases, name and form cease. Thus we understand it: 'When consciousness ceases, name and form cease.'"
"'When [volitional] formations cease, consciousness ceases' so it was said. Bhikkhus, does consciousness cease when [volitional] formations cease or does it not, or how does it happen?." "Venerable sir, when [volitional] formations cease, consciousness ceases. Thus we understand it: 'when [volitional] formations cease, consciousness ceases.'"
"'When ignorance ceases, [volitional] formations cease' so it is said. Bhikkhus, do [volitional] formations cease when ignorance ceases, or do they not, or how does it happen?" "Venerable sir, when ignorance ceases, [volitional] formations cease. Thus we understand it: 'when ignorance ceases, [volitional] formations cease.'"
"Good, Bhikkhus! You say this and I also say it. Thus when this is present, that happens. When this arises, that arise. That is, because of ignorance, [volitional] formations arise. Because of [volitional] formations, consciousness arises. Because of consciousness, name and form arise. Because of name and form, the sixfold sense base arises. Because of the sixfold sense base, contact arises. Because of contact, feelings arise. Beccause of feelings, craving arises. Because of craving, clinging arises. Because of clinging, being arises. Because of being, birth arises. Because of birth, old age, sickness, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress arise. Thus arises the complete mass of dukkha.
"Bhikkhus, you who know thus and see thus, would your mind run to the past: 'Was I in the past or was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what did I become?'" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, would you who know and see thus, run to the future: 'Will I be in the future, or will I not be in the future? What will I be in the future? How will I be in the future? Having been what, what will I become?'" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, would you who know and see thus have doubts about the present: 'Am I, or am I not? What am I? How am I? Where did this being come from? Where will it go?'" "No, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, you who know thus and see thus, would you say: 'We have reverence for the Teacher. We say it out of reverence to the Teacher'?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, you who know thus and see thus, would you say: 'Our recluse said it, these are the recluse’s words. But we do not say that'?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, you who know thus and see thus, would you acknowledge another teacher?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, you who know thus and see thus, would you seek meaning in religious rites, ceremonies or festivals of other recluses and brahmins?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, is it that you youself knowing, seeing and experiencing this speak thus?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Good, O, Bhikkhus, I have led you in this Dhamma which is visible here and now, timeless, open to inspection, leading onwards and to be experienced by the wise for themselves. It was in reference to this that it was said: 'Bhikkhus, this Dhamma is visible here and now, timeless, open to inspection, leading onwards and to be experienced by the wise for themselves'."
"Bhikkhus, a descent to the womb comes about with the coming together of three things: If there is the union of mother and father, but it is not the season of the mother and the one to be born is not present - then there is no descent to the womb. If there is the union of mother and father and it is the season of the mother but the one to be born is not present - then there is no descent to the womb. If there is the union of mother and father and it is the season of the mother and the one to be born is present - then there is a descent to the womb.
"The mother carries the embryo in her womb for nine or ten months with great anxiety and trouble. After nine or ten months she gives birth with great anxiety and trouble. She supports the newborn with her own blood; for in the Noble Ones’ dispensation mother’s milk is called blood.
"Bhikkhus, that child grows and his faculties mature and he plays games that children play, such as playing with toy ploughs, turning somersaults, making toy wind mills with palm leaves, making small carts and bows. Bhikkhus, that child grows and his faculties mature [further] and the youth enjoys the five strands of sense pleasures; he lives enticed by pleasing and agreeable forms cognisable by eye consciousness, agreeable sounds cognisable by ear consciousness, agreeable smells cognisable by nose consciousness, agreeable tastes cognisable by tongue consciousness and agreeable touches cognisable by body consciousness.
"On seeing a form with the eye he becomes greedy for a pleasant form, or averse to a disagreeable form. He abides with mindfulness of the body not established and with a limited mind. He does not know the deliverance of mind nor the deliverance through wisdom as it really is, where unwholesome states cease completely. He follows the path of agreeing and disagreeing and experiences whatever feeling that arises - pleasant, unpleasant, or neither unpleasant nor pleasant. Delighted and pleased with those [pleasant] feelings he appropriates them. This arouses interest in those feelings. That interest for feelings is clinging. From clinging, there arises being, from being arises birth, from birth old age, sickness and death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress. Thus arises the complete mass of dukkha.
"Hearing a sound with the ear, smelling a smell with the nose, tasting a taste with the tongue, feeling a touch with the body, thinking a thought with the mind, he becomes greedy for a pleasant experience, or averse to a disagreeable one. He abides with mindfulness of the body not established and with a limited mind. He does not know the deliverance of mind nor the deliverance through wisdom as it really is, where unwholesome states cease completely. He follows the path of agreeing and disagreeing and experiences whatever feeling that arises - pleasant, unpleasant, or neither unpleasant nor pleasant. Delighted and pleased with those [pleasant] feelings he appropriates them. This arouses interest in those feelings. That interest for feelings is clinging. From clinging, there arises being, from being arises birth, from birth old age, sickness and death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress. Thus arises the complete mass of dukkha.
"Bhikkhus, a Tathagata arises in the world, a worthy one, perfectly enlightened, endowed with clear knowledge and conduct, accomplished, a knower of the world, unsurpassed trainer of men to be tamed, teacher of gods and men, enlightened and exalted. Having realized by his own direct knowledge this world with its gods, its Maras, and its Brahmas, this generation with its recluses and brahmins, its rulers and people, he makes it known to others. He teaches the Dhamma that is good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, possessing meaning and phrasing; he reveals the holy life that is fully complete and purified.
"A householder, or a householder's son, or one born into some other family, hears the Dhamma. Having heard the Dhamma, he gains faith in the Tathagata. Endowed with such faith, he reflects: 'The household life is crowded, a path of dust. Going forth is like the open air. It is not easy for one dwelling at home to lead the perfectly complete, perfectly purified holy life, bright as a polished conch. Let me then shave off my hair and beard, put on saffron robes, and go forth from the household life into homelessness.'
"After some time he abandons his accumulation of wealth, be it large or small; he abandons his circle of relatives, be it large or small; he shaves off his hair and beard, puts on saffron robes, and goes forth from the household life into homelessness.
"When he has thus gone forth, he lives restrained by the rules of the Patimokkha, possessed of proper behavior and resort. Abandoning the taking of life, he abstains from the taking of life. He dwells with his rod laid down, his knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, compassionate for the welfare of all living beings.
"Abandoning the taking of what is not given, he abstains from taking what is not given. He takes only what is given, accepts only what is given, lives not by stealth but in honesty with a pure mind.
"Abandoning incelibacy, he lives a celibate life, aloof, refraining from the sexual act that is the villager's way.
"Abandoning false speech, he abstains from false speech. He speaks the truth, holds to the truth, is firm, reliable, no deceiver of the world.
"Abandoning divisive speech he abstains from divisive speech. What he has heard here he does not tell there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he does not tell here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus reconciling those who have broken apart or cementing those who are united, he loves concord, delights in concord, enjoys concord, speaks things that create concord.
"Abandoning abusive speech, he abstains from abusive speech. He speaks words that are soothing to the ear, that are affectionate, that go to the heart, that are polite, appealing and pleasing to people at large.
"Abandoning idle chatter, he abstains from idle chatter. He speaks in season, speaks what is factual, what is in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, and the Discipline. He speaks words worth treasuring, seasonable, reasonable, circumscribed, connected with the goal.
"He abstains from damaging seed and plant life.
"He eats only in one part of the day, refraining from food at night and from eating at improper times.
"He abstains from dancing, singing, instrumental music, and from witnessing unsuitable shows.
"He abstains from wearing garlands and from beautifying himself with scents and cosmetics.
"He abstains from high and luxurious beds and seats.
"He abstains from accepting gold and silver.
"He abstains from accepting uncooked grain... raw meat... women and girls... male and female slaves... goats and sheep... fowl and pigs... elephants, cattle, steeds, and mares... fields and property.
"He abstains from accepting fields and lands.
"He abstains from running messages... from buying and selling... from dealing with false scales, false metals, and false measures... from bribery, deception, and fraud.
"He abstains from mutilating, executing, imprisoning, highway robbery, plunder, and violence.
"Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is a bhikkhu is content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along.
"On seeing a form with the eye, he does not grasp at any theme or details by which -- if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye -- evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. On hearing a sound with the ear... On smelling an odor with the nose... One tasting a flavor with the tongue... On touching a tactile sensation with the body... On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or details by which -- if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect -- evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. Endowed with this noble restraint over the sense faculties, he experiences within himself an unblemished happiness.
"In going forward and returning, a bhikkhu acts with clear comprehension. In looking ahead and looking aside, he acts with clear comprehension. In bending and stretching his limbs, he acts with clear comprehension. In wearing his robes and cloak and using his almsbowl, he acts with clear comprehension. In eating, drinking, chewing, and tasting, he acts with clear comprehension. In defecating and urinating, he acts with clear comprehension. In walking, standing, sitting, lying down, waking up, speaking, and remaining silent, he acts with clear comprehension.
"Endowed with this noble aggregate of moral discipline, this noble restraint over the sense faculties, this noble mindfulness and clear comprehension, and this noble contentment, he resorts to a secluded dwelling - a forest, the foot of a tree, a mountain, a glen, a hillside cave, a cremation ground, a jungle grove, the open air, a heap of straw. After returning from his alms-round, following his meal, he sits down, crosses his legs, holds his body erect, and sets up mindfulness before him.
"Abandoning covetousness with regard to the world, he dwells with an awareness devoid of covetousness. He cleanses his mind of covetousness. Abandoning ill will and anger, he dwells with an awareness devoid of ill will, sympathetic with the welfare of all living beings. He cleanses his mind of ill will and anger. Abandoning sloth and drowsiness, he dwells with an awareness devoid of sloth and drowsiness, mindful, alert, percipient of light. He cleanses his mind of sloth and drowsiness. Abandoning restlessness and worry, he dwells undisturbed, his mind inwardly stilled. He cleanses his mind of restlessness and worry. Abandoning doubt, he dwells having crossed over doubt, with no perplexity with regard to skillful mental qualities. He cleanses his mind of doubt.
"Having thus abandoned these five hindrances, imperfections of the mind that weaken wisdom, quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unwholesome states of mind, he enters and remains in the first Jhana which is filled with rapture and happiness born of seclusion and is accompanied by initial and sustained attention [to the meditation subject].
"With the stilling of initial and sustained attention, by gaining inner tranquillity and unification of mind, he enters and remains in the second Jhana which is free from initial and sustained attention and is filled with rapture and happiness born of concentration.
"With the fading away of rapture, remaining imperturbable, mindful, and clearly aware, he enters the third Jhana and experiences within himself the joy of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Happy is he who dwells with equanimity and mindfulness.'
"With the abandoning of pleasure and pain -- as with the earlier disappearance of joy and sorrow -- he enters and remains in the fourth Jhana which is beyond pleasure and pain; and purified by equanimity and mindfulness.
"On seeing a form with the eye he does not become greedy for pleasant forms, or averse to disagreeable forms. He abides with mindfulness of the body established and with a immeasureable mind. He knows the deliverance of mind and the deliverance through wisdom as it really is, where unwholesome states cease completely. Having abandoned the path of agreeing and disagreeing, he experiences whatever feeling that arises - pleasant, unpleasant, or neither unpleasant nor pleasant - just as it is. He is not delighted or pleased with those feelings and he does not appropriates them. Interest in those feelings ceases. With the cessation of interest, clinging ceases. With no clinging, there is no being; no being, no birth; with no birth, there is no old age, sickness or death, no grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure or distress. Thus ceases the complete mass of dukkha.
"On hearing a sound with the ear, smelling a smell with the nose, tasting a taste with the tongue, feeling a touch with the body, thinking a thought with the mind, he does not become greedy for pleasant experiences, or averse to disagreeable ones. He abides with mindfulness of the body established and with a immeasureable mind. He knows the deliverance of mind and the deliverance through wisdom as it really is, where unwholesome states cease completely. Having abandoned the path of agreeing and disagreeing, he experiences whatever feeling that arises - pleasant, unpleasant, or neither unpleasant nor pleasant - just as it is. He is not delighted or pleased with those feelings and he does not appropriates them. Interest in those feelings ceases. With the cessation of interest, clinging ceases. With no clinging, there is no being; no being, no birth; with no birth, there is no old age, sickness or death, no grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure or distress. Thus ceases the complete mass of dukkha.
"Bhikkhus, remember this deliverance through the destruction of craving as taught in brief by me. But the bhikkhu Sati, the son of a fisherman, is caught in a net of much craving."
The Blessed One said this and those bhikkhus delighted in the words of the Blessed One.
- Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta: MN 38